SilverJ

Hi guys. I am considering purchasing a tsx over my cls that I currently own. I am cross shopping this with the loaded aero Saab 9-3 which I can get for about 1000 more than the tsx-navi. (gm pricing)
I would love a tl but its a bit more than I want to spend right now. So on to the tsx...
I love the look and interior. I am concerned with the cars low end torque and overall speed. I intend to get a six speed..is there any mods or anything that would boost this car? I also seem to get conflicting times on the 0-60 speed of this car as I have read anything from 7.1 to 8.3. Whats an accurate figure ? Do you have to redline the car every gear to get 7.1? I knwo when I drove the Saab I felt strong torque from about 2000 rpm's on.
I do love the TSX interior/nav which is a big draw for me. If this were a 6 cylinder it would be a no brainer.....I guess I just fear that I may feel like I am in a fast civic with a lot of luxury surrounding me after awhile. Please give me some feedback on mods that dont cost an arm and a leg. Thanks

ClutchPerformer

Yes you do have to redline 1st and 2nd to get a 7.1 0-60. But you have to do the same on any other car to get it's best 0-60 time. And if you're curious, the one time these cars were tested together (in Motor Trend, forgot which issue), I believe the TSX won in 0-60.

The only way to decide will be to take a reasonably long test drive in both cars. I think they're both great. Good luck choosing.

fdl

Should I just go ahead and lock this thread up right now?

Clutch makes some good points. Try a search as well becasue there have tons of heated debates on this comparison.

SilverJ

I am new to the forum. I am not looking for a this vs that thread so please dont lock. I am looking for low torque options for the tsx should I decide to go that route.

jcg878

I predict a predictable response in <4 hours

fdl

I understand what you are looking for, and would highly recommend a search.

vitocorleone

Don't forget to include the new, upcoming Volvo S40 in your search.

crisco

Both are very nice cars. But as Clutch said, take a few test drives of each and get the car that jumps out at you the most. Don't let one biased forum site vs another make the decision for you. If both cars are within your price range, don't sweat the money factor.

"I predict a predictable response in <4 hours" - hilarious!

gfxdave99

I have driven both.. both are nice cars..

The thing with the saab is the turbo which is a plus or minus depending on how you look at it.

The good thing is that its the GM "world engine" the ecotech which is now in every new cavilier, sunfire, saturn etc so aftermarket ecotech parts will become more and more prevelant.

I think you need to look more at if you are planning on modifying the car at all?

Looking at both cars stock and not changing anything it's really up in the air.

Honestly spec / speed wise they are very close.. I agree, just go take a long test drive in both and get what you like.

jlukja

Yes, you need to do a search but CAI, lighter wheels, grippier tires come to mind

QUOTE]Originally posted by SilverJ
I also seem to get conflicting times on the 0-60 speed of this car I have read anything from 7.1 to 8.3. Whats an accurate figure ? [/QUOTE]

You didn't read enough. One magazine ran it in 6.6. This topic has been debated ad nausem. It depends on which reviewer you believe. If I was to guess I'd believe somewhere in the low 7s. (7.1-7.2)

QUOTE]Originally posted by SilverJ
Do you have to redline the car every gear to get 7.1? I knwo when I drove the Saab I felt strong torque from about 2000 rpm's on.
I do love the TSX interior/nav which is a big draw for me. If this were a 6 cylinder it would be a no brainer.....I guess I just fear that I may feel like I am in a fast civic with a lot of luxury surrounding me after awhile.[/QUOTE]

Two words for you ... Test Drive

97AcuraCL

I've said it once and I'll say it again. If you have to ask this question, go buy the Saab. Dont waste space on this board looking for oppinions. If you're too stupid to realize that the acura is a better value; i dont know that I want you to be a fellow TSX owner.

Go Away.

gfxdave99

You Go GIRL!

Yeah value is a good point, for giggles I priced out the two various versions with comp equip of a base TSX and its 34-36 grand..

tuan209

dang, kinda harsh? kekeke

just test drive both cars and whichever you like more then buy it. Dont listen to ppl on forums as some or maybe even most are bias.

93Kewl

That kind of moronic response is exactly why I am glad I am NOT a TSX owner.

If you read the Silver's first post, you will notice that he can get GM discount and get an Aero for $1000 more than a TSX with Navi. At that price, the better value is absolutely the 9-3 (considering the standard features that the 9-3 has and the TSX doesn't).

ostrich

SilverJ, both the 9-3 Aero and TSX are really nice cars. I was choosing between the 9-3 Arc and the TSX when I was shopping for a car. I thought that the Saab had more power (look at the fantastic low end torque with that turbo!) but the TSX had a nicer interior and it's more stylish overall. I went with the TSX in the end simply for two reasons: reliability and resale value. I know that the new 9-3 is supposed to have much better reliability than the older Saabs, but that probably still does not compare well to Acura. Also, if this is an important factor to you, Acura has one of the very best resale values in the industry, whereas Saab has one of the worst.

Either way, you will have a very nice car! Good luck.

jcg878

My post at: 02-25-2004 06:53 PM

93Kewl's post at: 02-25-2004 11:24 PM

So I was off by 31 minutes

jcg878

Riiiigghhhtt... since we're ALL like that, and I'm sure Saabcentral.com doesn't have a single person who'd reply in kind

93Kewl

FYI - Silver posted at SC and no there were no idiotic responses like that over there. As a matter of fact, the responses were very similiar to most that were posted here - take a test drive and choose the one you like the best.

Sorry, I'd say the same thing here as I would say over at SC.

Oh and btw, if you don't fit that mold, then there should be nothing to make a fuss about. Right?

Wow, your foresight is nothing short of amazing. Gee, what would a TSX vs 9-3 thread be without 9-3 representation?

ClutchPerformer

Can we get a link to that thread, please?

gfxdave99

For the record a similarly equipped 9-3 at invoice is 33 grand.

93Kewl

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25123

jcg878

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/vi...er=asc&start=0

Yes, you're right. This is a very mature response

Seems you have a lot of intelligent answers there, and one dope. So don't generalize us like you just did - I think you know better

93Kewl

Yeah I knew you would grab at straws to find something. Actually that comment was from a guy that sells Acuras! Hahhahahahaha!

And btw, that comment is a little more lighthearted than calling someone a dope for not knowing the value of the TSX and "I don't know if I want you as a fellow owner", and finally "go away".

dom

Can't we all just........get along?

jcg, 31 minutes off, not bad, not bad at all.

Drive both make a decesion, end of story. Who cares what we think. As much as we hate to admit it, we're all bias. So can we really help you?

jcg878

lol - yep, because I'M so predictable!

SilverJ

Hmm---are you playing on Daddys computer again?
Hard to believe this response came from anyone with pubic hair.

SilverJ

Yes you can help me. Not everyone is biased just because they own the car. I don't find the Saab owners to be overly biased and for the most part the TSX owners are pretty objective as well. I think forums like this are awesome because you are dealing with REAL people who own the cars and will gladly share their likes and dislikes, prices they paid on their car, etc.
I find all public forum feedback to be EXTREMELY useful for almost any purchase. You guys may be TSX owners but above and beyond that you are all consumers who were probably shopping the same cras as me. I may get a childish response here and there but at least I know none of you are taking money from Acura or SAAB to give them a good review or a better 0-60 time to sell cars.

jcg878

Silver, here's my on your question, which I realize I haven't given (not that they are worth anything anyway).

I love my car, but after I bought it there were 2 cars I wish I had also test-driven - the 9-3 and the Audi A4. I checked both out at the auto show, and didn't like the A4 (which shocked me). I was surprised that the 9-3's TI-86-like interior was much nicer in person than in photos, and ergonomically sound.

You've driven both the 9-3 and TSX and identified each car's strengths and weaknesses. I don't think you can make a wrong choice

vitocorleone

The new S40 T5 that comes out in April or so will equal or outperform the Saab 9-3 (at least in straight-line speed). Of course, it's a little smaller, too. It'll also be available in AWD by the end of the year.

Saab 9-3 Aero is 0-60 ~7.0s for MT
S40 T5 is ~6.3s for MT (~6.7 for AT)

Since my TSX purchase has been delayed yet again (buying a house first), more cars are coming on the market that I'll be following. The new S40 is one of them.

jcg878

Ok, well in that case...

My only TSX-related regret is not getting an MT (as many members can attest). I hear too much about how great it is, and I miss driving MT. The much-ballyhooed lack of torque doesn't bother me and I think there is enough.

I'm going to agree with vito too - I'd check out that S40 also, though I'd be cautious about a new Volvo model. Looks great IMO.

id888

Of all the previous posts, it looks like Ostrich's contained the most meaningful information. Telling Silver to "go and test drive" is about as meaningful as a television commercial. I guess some people need to reach 4000 posts faster than others...:P

For me the comparison came down to European and Japanese autos under 35k last year. No decent BMW fit my price range, and the old S40 was crap. Therefore, I was left with the A4 1.8T, Saab 9-3 Arc, and TSX. Here's my comparo:

TSX:
Good top end hp, marginal low end torque
Understated and classic exterior design
Second best interior design
Proven mechanicals and reliability
Superior handling in that price range
Best value

A4 1.8T:
Adequate top end hp, turbo kinda helps mid-low end
Decent exterior
Best interior in its class
Reliability questionable (my wife owns a B5 Passat 1.8T)
Warranty includes maintenance
Quattro adds weight but nice, nice in the twisties

9-3 Arc:
Same comments about turbo
Best exterior in its class (very subjective, I know)
Absolutely horrid interior
Reliability questionable (sad when they say sharing with GM is a good thing for Saab)
I think warranty includes maintenance
Tires on the Arc and Linear are amazingly limited-- would need pronto upgrades. I was chirping them in second gear constantly.
Handling is not good enough (I think their is a C+D comparo from 2003 that talks more about this)
Color choices are better than TSX


In the end I went with the car that is supposed to be more hassle-free and fun enough. I haven't really regretted it, especially after spending $2,500 in repairs on my wife's Passat in the past year.

But hey, you should just go test drive those cars some more. That'll solve everything...

Iceman

I test-drove a Saab 9-3 Linear with the launch package, before buying my TSX. I thought the 9-3 was a nice car, but they were asking too much money for it. The TSX has proven to be the best car I have ever owned -- no regrets here! The TSX's 6-speed tranny is amazing. Wind that thing out, and the upshifts are smoother at high RPM's than they are when I'm limping along with the traffic. How did they do that?

Proo

I'm sure this has been said over and over, but if things weren't repeated periodically in a forum, I'm sure it must saturate and dry up. Good to see you understand the strengths and weaknesses of public forums. Sometimes seeing things you already know reiterated by other people is helpful.

So, of course it is your own personality that will make the difference and weight these pros and cons you read about. As for torque, I do find myself sometimes thinking I wish I didn't have to floor it to get moving, but it really is rare. I don't race, and usually care more about driving smoothly than being pressed against the back of my seat. At high revs, the TSX pulls quite nicely.

Coming from driving minivans and SUV's, I must say it corners rather well As for the complaints about rattles and such, my increased sensitivity for them started picking up much bigger ones coming from other cars I have ridden in since.

I honestly have not noticed many 9-3's on the road, but the TSX looks distinctive enough to me. Too unique is not necessarily good either; I would really fear it becoming dated rather quickly. Anyone else think the Tiberon looks nasty?

I do think it is somewhat regrettable that the TSX is selling so well. I see too many of them on the roads now to be unique. But that is an indication that people are finding it a good choice.

At least I don't drive a black or silver one. Everyone has their own tastes, but I don't like drops or putting 19's or lip spoilers (even tinting is iffy). Playing with the exhaust is bad, too.

Ok, this post is getting rambly (it's late). Bottom line, I still think my reasons for getting it were the compromise of refinement, "new-ness", performance, and value. I like the gauges and the lack of decision-making on extras. What I don't like (off the top of my head now) is the inferior Acura sales/service/commitment and slightly disappointing fuel economy.

Good luck extracting something useful from that.

bob shiftright

In my zip code carsdirect.com comes up with a "street price" about $3000 below invoice for the 9-3.

As a design I like the 9-3 better than the TSX. I've had TWO Saabs and my main reason for favoring the Honda this time is the superior reliability of the electrical components. My Saabs were pretty robust mechanically, my first Saab made it to nearly 300,000 miles before I lost sight of it. I don't know how much long-term information there can possibly be about the new GM engine family.

Spending my own money I bought the TSX but if someone else were buying (and maintaining), I'd pick the new e60 M5 in a heartbeat.

dom

Hmmm, I'm thinking that comment was a shot at me.
Better read whats written above my Avatar

Anyhow, how is telling someone to go and test drive a car "as meaningful as a TV commercial"? Did you buy your car without test driving? Has anyone bought their car without test driving? Fact of the matter is this tiopic has been debated back and forth several times always resulting in thread closure BECAUSE of the bias opinions of both camps. This thread was headed in the same direction.

By your rationale id888, SilverJ should pick up the July 03 edition of Motor Trend where the TSX wins over the 9-3 or the Aug (I think) edition of Automobile Mag where the TSX beats out several cars including the 9-3. Or maybe he should just get the January edition of Car and Driver and see that the TSX is on the 10 Best list where the 9-3 is nowhere to be found. Is that a fair rationale? Probly not, but who cares about actually driving the car, the mags and TV commercials are always right.

Want an opinion SilverJ, only reason I did'nt even look at the new 9-3, 2 letters, GM. May be ok for others, but not for me.

93Kewl

And don't forget the C+D 35K sedan shoot-out where the 9-3 Arc held it's own against cars like the G35, Acura TL, Audi A4, Lexus IS, etc. Too bad though they didn't test the Aero/Vector which has more supportive seats and more sporting suspension.

Before buying the 9-3 I thought the same way. Fact is, the car has some GM underpinings (chassis/engine) but the car is still manufactured and designed in Sweden. We all know from our TL/CL experiences that where a car is made can make a difference.

dom

Kewl, don't take my post as slamming the 9-3 in any way. My point was to prove the importance of test drive/actually seeing the cars for yourself and not relying on what your told by others.

As for the GM thing. I hate GM and would'nt look at anything they've made (aside from the Vette) just my opinion which I don't expect anyone to agree with. Even if I wanted the 9-3 I probly still would'nt have bought it because of its GM DNA, its a Honda Fan boy thing

93Kewl

Not taken as such. I agree. If we all were drones and bought based on mags only, we'd all be driving a Lexus. How boring would that be?

I hear ya. From experience, I can honestly say that a car is more than the sum of it's parts!

id888

Of course that's a shot at you.

My main point (which I think I buried in the ensuing drivel) was that Silver didn't sound like an idiot. He (she?) didn't need people talking down to him telling him to drive the cars. I hope he's spent enough time behind the wheel of both of them before coming around to this form and SaabCentral. I think he's asking owners of the TSX for their best opinions about their purchase decisions.

I don't know if this forum has a mission statement or goal or anything like that (I guess I need to do a search ). I think that we owe prospective owners of this vehicle some courtesy and respect if their questions are not inane.

Then again, after a few years, all of us can just "Do a search" becuase everything about this piece of metal on four wheels will have been covered time and again.

dom

I know SilverJ is'nt an idiot and I hope my post did'nt seem as though I was treating him as such. And in all honestly, I usually don't like sending a new member to do a search, although I have begun doing so lately so someone else who's not as understanding or kind does first (which we've seen several times)

But your right we do owe perspective owners answers to good questions. I only hope we can do so like adults.

Back to the thread topic which will take me back to my original post. IMO choosing between these two cars especially when you factor in only a 1k price difference is like splitting hairs. Thats why SilverJ's personal opinion and not ours should be the main factor in his descesion (which I'm sure it is anyway) I mean at some point the car you truly want will somehow jump out at you.

Both cars performance is a wash
Styling is subjective (But there both nice)
Reliability/resale value favours the Acura (Likely but not for certain)
Luxury/Snob factor favours the Saab
Options/Gadgetry favours the Saab
Cost favours the Acura

Why not go have a look at the new S40. Are they in dealers yet?
There 2003.5 models so they should be. If not spend alittle more and get a TL.