TSX VS Ford Fusion / Milan / Zepher
10-23-2005, 05:19 PM
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TSX VS Ford Fusion / Milan / Zepher
I drove a Milan last week and I will say that Ford did a pretty darn good job on it. It looks like a TSX in alot of angles and actually drive decently. The initial build quality seems good, too.
Overall however, the driving experience comes up short to the TSX. It is much less responsive, and although it has a 6-speed automatic, it doesn't feel like it has very good programing. It doesn't like to shift when it should. Not nearly as nimble, either.
It is a really good value in the Fusion / Milan trims. The Milan I drove sticked for $25K, and you can figure invoice deals soon, as well as rebates. That means it undercuts the TSX by a bunch.
HOWEVER, to get the same level of features, etc... as the TSX you really need to step up to the Lincoln, which lists for more like $33K. At $33K it seems pretty significantly overpriced.
Overall, it looks like a good attempt, and I am sure they will sell alot of them, but for the enthusiast, the TSX is the far better value.
Overall however, the driving experience comes up short to the TSX. It is much less responsive, and although it has a 6-speed automatic, it doesn't feel like it has very good programing. It doesn't like to shift when it should. Not nearly as nimble, either.
It is a really good value in the Fusion / Milan trims. The Milan I drove sticked for $25K, and you can figure invoice deals soon, as well as rebates. That means it undercuts the TSX by a bunch.
HOWEVER, to get the same level of features, etc... as the TSX you really need to step up to the Lincoln, which lists for more like $33K. At $33K it seems pretty significantly overpriced.
Overall, it looks like a good attempt, and I am sure they will sell alot of them, but for the enthusiast, the TSX is the far better value.
10-23-2005, 05:26 PM
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Drove Fusion Today Too
I test drove a Fusion today too. Was attracted by the styling and perceived quality. It seemed to drive fairly well, although I agree the transmission didn't seem to want to shift propery. What concerned me was the brake feel- a little too spongy with no feel. As I wait for the 2006 TSX I'm test other cars to confirm my decision. It's still the TSX.
10-23-2005, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 04EuroAccordTsx
No way you can't compare a TSX to those cars.
I would compare the TSX to a CTS instead.
I would compare the TSX to a CTS instead.
i dont think its an unfair comparison.
they are front drive with 160 or 220 hp. and the mercury and especially the lincoln (which is a luxury brand) would be a fair comparison. i think another fair comparison in the ford family would be a jaguar x-type (i think its ford mondeo in europe).
the fusion is a mazda 6 chassis with a 6 speed auto, so i dont think it is a bad car at all.
its probably the best built car in its class for the american companies (i'm assumign its competitors are the pontiac g6, chevy malibu, chysler 300 (not 300c) and the dodge charger non hemi )
that said unless you need the additional space inside, i think the tsx is better as a car and a better value if you want all the luxury features (which the lincoln would have for more money)
10-23-2005, 09:57 PM
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Japanese Cars > European Cars > American Car( This excludes the corvette and gt40)
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10-23-2005, 10:02 PM
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Out of the three Ford products, the only one I'd even consider is the Mercury Milan because I think it looks the best out of the bunch, then the Fusion. I initially liked the Zephy but I think the design wore off real fast, the front has a sad look to it.
10-23-2005, 10:04 PM
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I will have to agree the mercury milan looks the best
10-23-2005, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by phile
Out of the three Ford products, the only one I'd even consider is the Mercury Milan because I think it looks the best out of the bunch, then the Fusion. I initially liked the Zephy but I think the design wore off real fast, the front has a sad look to it.
The Milan apes the foreign competition the best.
10-24-2005, 04:31 AM
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pics aren't loading....
and as far as i'm concerned you cannot compare any domestic vehicle to any foreign (especially jap) vehicle even if their size/cost/config are similar. u wouldn't catch me buying a domestic car dead.
and as far as i'm concerned you cannot compare any domestic vehicle to any foreign (especially jap) vehicle even if their size/cost/config are similar. u wouldn't catch me buying a domestic car dead.
10-24-2005, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey
Japanese Cars > European Cars > American Car( This excludes the corvette and gt40)
10-24-2005, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 97AcuraCL
no excludes the Z06, the regular vette = crap still.
10-24-2005, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sveet
I agree, too. The Fusion tailights are a turn-off for me. The Licoln tailights and wheels look to stodgy to me.
The Milan apes the foreign competition the best.
The Milan apes the foreign competition the best.
at least these cars, i think, look better than the designs they've recently sent out...
10-24-2005, 10:22 AM
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The clear "altezza" tails on the Fusion look like cheap APC garbage. If they just chose some subtle red lights for the rear with some decent-looking chrome trim (not the cheap plastic crap on the current OEM Fusion tails), then MAYBE it'd look better.
Still, Ford, and the other american manufacturers are all going to collapse soon enough, or at least make significant changes in design, etc... taking hints from Japanese and European manufacturers to FINALLY get it right.
Still, Ford, and the other american manufacturers are all going to collapse soon enough, or at least make significant changes in design, etc... taking hints from Japanese and European manufacturers to FINALLY get it right.
10-24-2005, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey
Japanese Cars > European Cars > American Car( This excludes the corvette and gt40)
but I would like to take out the excludes and may be add Korean in between and make it slightly ahead of European Cars. 
11-02-2005, 02:53 AM
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The Fusion ain't a bad attempt (looking at the exterior/interior and specs) at hitting the mark the Big Three (Honda/Toyota/Nissan) set about 10 years or so ago. They're still using generic-parts-bin HVAC and stereo-tuner controls that don't really fit w/the rest of the center stack, and while initial build quality may be good, who knows what it'll be like in 100,000 miles. But it's a nice attempt. Too bad it's a little late to the party.
11-02-2005, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 97AcuraCL
no excludes the Z06, the regular vette = crap still.
ok , i was in rowland heights once with my roomate down here in southern california.
a very predominantly chinese area and we are walking around some random strip mall and i guess GM does these car promo events to try promote their cars.
now chinese people barely ever buy GM cars so they had a c6 corvette and a loaded cobalt there for people to check out as well as chinese speaking spokespeople the whole thing.
now the c6 is a great sports car, very fast for the money (50k or so) but as the top gear folks would say, the interior is rubbish. and the car just feels cheap.
i am not sure if it is the fiberglass but the outside, especially the taillight portion felt el cheapo supreme. the interior of the cobalt was sadly much nicer than the cobalt in my opinion. even my roomate agreed.
and that i think is where they go wrong, i mean seriously they are by far the value leader in terms of sports and speed. i dont think it would hurt them that much to say raise the price of the car by 4 or 5 grand (they would still be the value leader) , but use some better materials/design fo rthe interior so it doesn't completely feel like it was made out of melted mcdonalds toys and designed by the same person who made those toys.
i think thats why they cant sell corvettes. people actually care about that german door thud" , nice interior , low wind noise thing. and the corvette is not goig to have those going for it. it just doesnt give the perception of quality and in a place like los angeles, you will never even know that it really is that much sportier or fast than more presigious similarly priced cars (like say a boxster or something) that feel more "worth the money".
11-02-2005, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by afici0nad0
some ford fusions from the 05 SEMA show.
the headlamps do remind me of the last generation preludes (just my thoughts)...
a lot better looking than a taurus...
the headlamps do remind me of the last generation preludes (just my thoughts)...
a lot better looking than a taurus...
supposed to be one of the worst cars currently on sale in EUROPE
i'll post pics soon
11-02-2005, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hans007
ok , i was in rowland heights once with my roomate down here in southern california.
a very predominantly chinese area and we are walking around some random strip mall and i guess GM does these car promo events to try promote their cars.
now chinese people barely ever buy GM cars so they had a c6 corvette and a loaded cobalt there for people to check out as well as chinese speaking spokespeople the whole thing.
now the c6 is a great sports car, very fast for the money (50k or so) but as the top gear folks would say, the interior is rubbish. and the car just feels cheap.
i am not sure if it is the fiberglass but the outside, especially the taillight portion felt el cheapo supreme. the interior of the cobalt was sadly much nicer than the cobalt in my opinion. even my roomate agreed.
and that i think is where they go wrong, i mean seriously they are by far the value leader in terms of sports and speed. i dont think it would hurt them that much to say raise the price of the car by 4 or 5 grand (they would still be the value leader) , but use some better materials/design fo rthe interior so it doesn't completely feel like it was made out of melted mcdonalds toys and designed by the same person who made those toys.
i think thats why they cant sell corvettes. people actually care about that german door thud" , nice interior , low wind noise thing. and the corvette is not goig to have those going for it. it just doesnt give the perception of quality and in a place like los angeles, you will never even know that it really is that much sportier or fast than more presigious similarly priced cars (like say a boxster or something) that feel more "worth the money".
a very predominantly chinese area and we are walking around some random strip mall and i guess GM does these car promo events to try promote their cars.
now chinese people barely ever buy GM cars so they had a c6 corvette and a loaded cobalt there for people to check out as well as chinese speaking spokespeople the whole thing.
now the c6 is a great sports car, very fast for the money (50k or so) but as the top gear folks would say, the interior is rubbish. and the car just feels cheap.
i am not sure if it is the fiberglass but the outside, especially the taillight portion felt el cheapo supreme. the interior of the cobalt was sadly much nicer than the cobalt in my opinion. even my roomate agreed.
and that i think is where they go wrong, i mean seriously they are by far the value leader in terms of sports and speed. i dont think it would hurt them that much to say raise the price of the car by 4 or 5 grand (they would still be the value leader) , but use some better materials/design fo rthe interior so it doesn't completely feel like it was made out of melted mcdonalds toys and designed by the same person who made those toys.
i think thats why they cant sell corvettes. people actually care about that german door thud" , nice interior , low wind noise thing. and the corvette is not goig to have those going for it. it just doesnt give the perception of quality and in a place like los angeles, you will never even know that it really is that much sportier or fast than more presigious similarly priced cars (like say a boxster or something) that feel more "worth the money".
I can't imagine the Top Gear guy's saying anything differently. What they fail to conceed is that to get the preformance that the Vette is capapble of, you must spend $40K or even alot more to even come close in the competion. Sure there is a market for fast $100K cars, but I am alot closer to being able to afford that cheapo Corvette. And thus I love the Vette as it is the closest I can get to that kinda performance.
11-02-2005, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sveet
I agree with most of what you wrote, however, I don't think GM is having any difficulty selling C6's. I think they are selling very well.
I can't imagine the Top Gear guy's saying anything differently. What they fail to conceed is that to get the preformance that the Vette is capapble of, you must spend $40K or even alot more to even come close in the competion. Sure there is a market for fast $100K cars, but I am alot closer to being able to afford that cheapo Corvette. And thus I love the Vette as it is the closest I can get to that kinda performance.
I can't imagine the Top Gear guy's saying anything differently. What they fail to conceed is that to get the preformance that the Vette is capapble of, you must spend $40K or even alot more to even come close in the competion. Sure there is a market for fast $100K cars, but I am alot closer to being able to afford that cheapo Corvette. And thus I love the Vette as it is the closest I can get to that kinda performance.
well yeah i'm sure they are selling all the c6s they have, but i was just saying they are taking the c6 to asian areas, and trying to promote it, but thats probably pretty pointless until they make it a bit better interior-wise etc.
11-02-2005, 08:51 PM
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Well I really liked the Mazda 6 and the Ford Fusion platform is guess what....a redesign of the same Mazda 6, so is it American-nized Mazda or Japanessed up Ford?
The 6cyl (Mazda VVT of the Ford Duratec) and 4cyl (stroked Miata family engine) are the same as the Mazda 6 and the 6-speed auto in the V6 is made by Aisin (Japanesse), they make many-many Japanesse transmission, even those for Toyotas. My Ford Five-hundred company car uses this 6-spd tranny it's made in Japan as well, a fairly nice unit as auto goes, no TSX sport shift, but OK.
So this car is heavily Japanesse influenced, heck it may be Japanesse in parts.
I have a nice list of gripes on my Ford 500, most are build quality-material related. Nothing major has failed yet on the car, I'm surprised. (I've had 2 warranty issues, but I am one of the first 500 ever made.) No major issues to date. The Fusion surprises me, it could be a really great car from Ford...I'm shocked. Every review I've read to date makes me want to take one for a test drive. Hope they go into company fleet sales soon
I would definately place the Zephyr in TSX comparo range. Both are $30k FWD sporty sedans based on the chassis of a midsize Japanesse family sedan....
The 6cyl (Mazda VVT of the Ford Duratec) and 4cyl (stroked Miata family engine) are the same as the Mazda 6 and the 6-speed auto in the V6 is made by Aisin (Japanesse), they make many-many Japanesse transmission, even those for Toyotas. My Ford Five-hundred company car uses this 6-spd tranny it's made in Japan as well, a fairly nice unit as auto goes, no TSX sport shift, but OK.
So this car is heavily Japanesse influenced, heck it may be Japanesse in parts.
I have a nice list of gripes on my Ford 500, most are build quality-material related. Nothing major has failed yet on the car, I'm surprised. (I've had 2 warranty issues, but I am one of the first 500 ever made.) No major issues to date. The Fusion surprises me, it could be a really great car from Ford...I'm shocked. Every review I've read to date makes me want to take one for a test drive. Hope they go into company fleet sales soon
I would definately place the Zephyr in TSX comparo range. Both are $30k FWD sporty sedans based on the chassis of a midsize Japanesse family sedan....
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