dirk

Hey guys,

not sure if someone asked this before.. and i know people are always asking to compare the tsx with other vehicles in it's price range, so i was wondering what you guys thought (those who either have experience owning both acuras and audis, or someone who test drove both) about the differences and what you personally feel are the strong and low points about both cars, and which is inevitably better.

thanks a bunch

AZTSXer

The 1.8T engine is a souless dud, IMHO, otherwise a great car.

Dan Martin

The engine isn't a dud it's just in the wrong car. The A4 is too heavy (especially with quattro) for the 1.8T. I think the A4 needs the VR6 (or V6 or whatever they call it now) to make it move.

AZTSXer

IMHO, I've sampled it in a TT, a GTI and a Jetta: its a silent partner that hates revs and lacks verve. I've even been a pasenger in an A6 1.8T in China. Perhaps it suits the A6 best.

dirk

i did a comparison and the tsx has a ton of more options for only a slightly higher pricetag. i was just surprised to see that an audi was so close in price range to the acura, because they usually get hailed as better cars on here, and i didn't undersand why people just wouldn't opt for the audi if it was cheaper.

jcg878

The A4 is beautiful, IMHO. Priced less that the TSX??? I don't think so, comparably equipped. If Audi can ever improve it's reliability I'd consider one. I wish Acura would offer AWD.

dirk

yeh that's what i was saying.. it's less base msrp.. but when it's comparably equipped it's about 4 grand more

bob shiftright

Better for WHOM?

I chose the TSX (and 4 snow tires). Equipped with the manual transmission the Audi turbo 4 is sprightly and fun to drive by most accounts. I also found the A4 a little tight for my 6'3" bulk, interesting the Acura seems to have more cabin room than my Volvo. The Acura is probably more reliable and durable, but you won't see the benefit of that until the miles begin to pile up. It's also cheaper but has been pointed out it's not AWD, either. If you plan to lease and only drive 12,000 miles annually you might be happier with the Audi. Or might not. Try them both, then decide.

dirk

thanks for all the responses. i was basically asking everyone their opinions as to which is better for you all and why. but if you want to weigh it against what i'm looking for in a car:

#1 reliability - coming from a 95 neon which i had got with 100,000 miles on it and lasted a couple years (with some expensive repairs) died in april , then moved onto a 92 toyota corrola with 114,000 miles on it that is currently giving me a bunch of problems (in the shop right now actually) i really want something that i can drive freely and not have to worry about it breaking down or dying on me for a good number of years, i have a 30 mile trek to work and back in traffic. so i'll be driving this thing A LOT

#2 affordability - being that i work in the internet field and work can be temperamental (especially in our current economy) i need something that fits my budget, which means, if i am going to splurge for a luxury car it needs to fit all my requirments and prove to me it's worth what i'll be paying

#3 comfort - aside from having comfort from it being reliable, i would also like to have somewhat of a roomy interior (5'9, 250), nice seats and easy to operate controls

#4 overall look - i know this really shouldn't matter too much, but it does for me, if i'm going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a car i might as well get something i think looks damn good, and i look damn good in.

so that's my criteria.. give your opiniosn based on what you were/are looking for in a car, or what i am.

thanks

jcg878

Have you driven both yet??

3 of your factors are practical, and there's nothing wrong with your subjective #4. I'd say your analysis favors the TSX, but that is completely negated if you drive it and hate it!

Our opinions are obviously skewed... if you are going to ask for the opinions of others, I'd ask an Audi board too. I'd also look at the Mazda6 which IMO meets all 4 of your criteria.

Dan Martin

If you're going to pack on lots of miles, forget about leasing. Finance rates could play big factor in your decision.

KJLite

comparably equipped, the A4 will run you $4K more. interestingly, on the audi website, the TSX is not listed in the compare drop box. haven't checked the BMW, lexus or acura site, but would be interesting.

as far as getting a stripped A4, base of 25K, good luck. my experience with BMW has been, they don't order cars from factory stripped, and they won't even let you custom order the cars stripped. they don't want people seeing BMWs with cloth interiors.

as everyone else has mentioned, drive the 2 cars and see what the dealers will offer as their best price. we may all be surprised.

gavinn58

the a4's here were overpriced imo...stickered at $32k well-equiped but not fully loaded. I thought about picking an a4 up but the cost and features didn't jive, not to mention it was a little too big. My co-worker has a chipped a4 1.8t with a few other bolt-ons and that thing hauls major ass. Torque is very nice in that car!

drchaos

I think the Audi 1.8T would be very nice with the CVT transmission. You can only get the CVT, for the moment, with FWD instead of AWD.

The CVT would get extremely smooth acceleration, It will not be superfast with 170hp, but you will get nearly optimal "gear" ratios automatically chosen.

Reliability is probably better now---there was a significant recall on coilpacks in the 1.8T but it should be fine now with redesigned parts. But japan made acura would be better.

I think the A4 looks better.

junc02

i guess i'll add my opinion.

there's really only one aspect i feel the a4 is far superior. although i prefer the interior design of the tsx, the materials are obviously better in the audi.

i think the new tl matches the material feel of the a4, but the tsx definitely falls short. everything is tactile or 'soft' in the a4. just some examples: the glove compartment and door panels are just hard/textured plastic on the tsx, but in the a4 those pieces feel much 'richer' to the touch. other details: having to slam the glove compartment shut on the tsx, or the way the center arm rest feels when you open it. i think those things are better resolved on the a4...and it's those little things that begin to add up and justify the higher price of the audi...although maybe not by as large a margin that exists.

everything else was pretty even to me...unless we're talking about a 3.0 quattro...but that's not even a fair comparison. the a4 would've made me just as happy...except for that hideous xm antenna on the '04 models...that was the deal breaker.

dirk

I've driven both and they're both nice, i just couldn't believe my eyes when i saw that the base audi was cheaper than the tsx, because i was always under the assumption that audis were closer to bmws and lexus' price range of 30 - 34 grand for the starters, that coupled with the fact that when the tsx was compared to other cars in it's price range on this message board people leaned more towards the audi as a nicer car, and would've went for it if ::insert whatever excuse here:: i have driven the tsx and been in love with it for awhile (and i'm totally leaning in that direction so i must admit that this post was a sneaky attempt to justfy my decision) BUT my friend used to have an a4 (the 3.0 i believe) and it was nice as hell too.. decison decisions

bob shiftright

For the FWD A4 5-speed manual I calculated the carsdirect.com "street price" as $2300 MORE than the TSX if equipped like the TSX. What's really annoying to me about the Germans is that they may offer a bargain-basement version that's price-competitive with Honda and Toyota but then they have you pay extra for all the toys and even the performance goodies like the good wheels tires and suspension bits. Would you still be happy with a FWD Audi A4 with unheated cloth seats, skinny tires and no moonroof? If so, why not just buy a VW Passat?

You can buy a bargain-basement BMW 325i too, again with no sunroof, HIDs, vinyl seats and skinny tires.

ySL

A4 if you want more prestige

TSX if reliability is your biggest concern

MikeOKC

I test drove the 1.8 A4 and bought the TSX. The Audi felt like I was sitting in a bath tub, the dash & doors seemed so high. The 1.8 also seemed sluggish compared to the TSX. I did like the quality of the interior of the Audi. The main reason I went with the TSX is reliability & service. I had a '94 Accord w/143k miles when I sold it - it was bullet-proof! Also, there's a ship here in Oklahoma City that specializes in Hondas & Acuras, so I don't have to go to the dealer for service. VW/Audi makes it hard for other shops to get their parts, so you're almost forced to get service at the dealer. If there's only one or two VW/Audi dealers in your area, then you're pretty much screwed on costs for service. Hope this helps with your decision!

ostrich

I also considered and test drove the A4 1.8T before I got the TSX. The A4 looked beautiful and the interior was perfect. HOWEVER!!! It was sooooo slow. Just like MikeOKC said, it was very sluggish. If I went for the 3.0 model it would have been way too expensive. At that price (close to 40K) why not get the BMW 3 series?

Also, since I planned to keep the car for a while, I was very concerned about the reliability issues with Audi too. It just made so much more sense to me to get the TSX. The TSX has the best all-round "package".

zircon

I rented an A4 1.7? turbodiesel in Munich last summer. That thing was bare bones in terms of content (no sun roof, basic CD stereo), but the car was really sweet to drive. I was doing hairpins in the mountains with alacrity. The car was point and shoot - great steering and brakes. The turbo engine was the opposite of the TSX - all grunt at low end, none at high end. The car's range on a tank of fuel (seemed like a regular tank) was 1150km (i.e. > 700 miles). Unbelievable. Because of the clean fuel over in Europe it was rare to smell the exhaust, and noise was usually muffled. It kicked ass on the autobahn - cruised easily at 170-180km/hr. Still, I have zero regrets over choosing the TSX as a purchase.

kiteboy

Uh - no. The A4 CVT doesn't act like a conventional CVT and lock the engine into the optimal rpm. What it does is simulate 6 fixed "virtual" gear ratios and it drives like a sportshift AT. It has the same "stepped" acceleration curve as a regular tranmission with discrete gear ratios.

I tested the A4 CVT and ironically the TSX Sportshift AT shifts as fast as Audi's virtual gears. It's also obvious that Honda stole the dash layout from the A4, but the execution in the TSX is far better with the LED lighting.

In Canada, the stripper A4 CVT is very hard to find and a decently equipped model (which is still not as well equipped as a TSX) is about $3k-$4k more. And it still has 15" rims which look ridicuous on an otherwise great looking car.

rb1

This is a mode that you can put it into to simulate an automatic transmission. It can also operate like a conventional CVT.

marcutam

You can read an article about Audi 1.8T (190 HP) vs. Honda accord Euro 2.4 (190 HP) in german car magazine link: http://www.autobild.de/suche/artikel...rtikel_id=4319
of course if you know german.

if not you can try with translation of this site made by altavista
link: http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...n&intl=1&tlb=1

And the winner is?: Honda

Buff-Daddy

I hate to be the one to tell you this bob, but you fell for Acura's little trick that they play on thier consumers. Your TSX has "leather trimmed" seats, not leather. Your seats are almost all "vinyl" as you call it. They just add enough leather on the trim areas so that they can put the word "leather" in the brochure and fool people into thinking they are getting a Lexus-like interior. And since you didn't know that, I know for sure that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between BMW's leather and the leatherette. The "ette" looks identical, wears better and cleans easier. You are lucky to have it in your TSX.
We have real leather in our X5 and leatherette in our 3-Series and I will be buying the "ette" from this point on. It is identical and looks brand new 3 years down the road...

rb1

Let's see.

The Audi came out on top in Engine, Acceleration, Noise, Handling, Steering, Traveling comfort, Operability, Quality, Maintenance and Resale value.

You were saying?

(Yes, the overall score gave a slight edge to the TSX, but I'd be careful calling this one a clear win for the TSX).

kiteboy

Care to tell us which button that is? I drove it both in the regular D gate and sportshift mode and it simulated discrete ratios both times.

rick955i

Ok, so here is the skinny...I drive a 2002 A4 1.8t and work closely with TSXs...all Honda products for that matter. Don't have much time now but here are few categories:

1) Interior: Sorry folks, but Audi has it in spades in interior quality and features...except for nav...but otherwise there is no comparison

2) Engine: Acura for sparkle and fun to drive, but a properly chipped 1.8t has it in spades in torque over the high strung Hondas

3) Body rigidity: Acura all the way. I don't know what is wrong with the Gremans, but the Acura is quieter and creek free...not so with the Audi

4) Handling: While quattro is completely superior in any inclement weather, the Acura just feels more precise, less plodding in its ways, more like a scalpel

Overall, I am torn daily between the bond I have with the Audi, the personlaity it has, the heritage and feeling and wanting the newness of the Acura, the spunky engine, precise suspension and Nav system.

I sort of look at the Audi as a not perfect, but imminently polishable piece of fine silver or furniture and the Acura as a perfectly executed digital camera or DVD player, both have their appeal and purpose.

Rick

rb1

Mea culpa. You're correct in that discrete ratios are programmed and you can't turn them off.

(Sigh. I think this defeats one of the large benefits of having a CVT)

jcg878

That is bizarre - isn't the whole point of a CVT to continually change gear ratios at the optimized engine speed/output for what you are demanding??? Optimal or not, I don't know if I could get used to one - flooring it and hearing the engine screaming at the same RPM the whole time would be annoying.

rb1

Indeed. After I got called on the carpet for my last post, I did some research and found the following:

http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/test/feb02/23135.asp

Quoting:

"Ordinarily, there are no shift points whatsoever in a CVT.

The power surge is smooth and steady, as with an electric motor.

But the Audi engineers thought some customers might find that a bit spooky, so they used computer programming to introduce slight hiccups as the gear ratios change, so the feeling would mimic a standard automatic transmission.

However, the transitions are so muted that most drivers likely will think the multitronic transmission - Audi's name for its CVT - is simply the smoothest automatic they've ever driven."