ZAXDude

I have searched through many posts, and although oil has been discussed ad nauseum, I didn't find any specific reference to my question/concern. If I missed anything in my searches, I apologize.

I had my oil changed on Saturday, June 18 at the dealership during its maintenance check. They put 5w20 in my engine. I have always put 5w30 in for an oil change since I bought it new, per the owners manual and the permanent stamp on the oil cap.

I called the dealership today to inquire what was placed in my engine because the invoice stated 5w20 and the windshield sticker stated 5w30. They responded that without any doubt 5w20 was used because "about a year ago, Honda revised the recommended oil to be 5w20". I asked why I was never notified or (laughingly) sent a new oil cap. I think I made them mad so they referred me to Acuracare.

I called Acuracare. They too stated that Honda revised the recommended oil to be 5w20. They stated you could still use 5w30 because they "realize not all independent service stations carry 5w20" and that "5w30 will provide an acceptable level of protection". I then asked if by using the word "acceptable" with 5w30 meant that 5w20 is being recommended because it's better for the TSX engine -- and I essentially received the "Honda now recommends that 5w20 be used".

So what's the deal? Anyone have any insight? I don't mind using the 5w20; I just wish I was told before through some means -- email, postcard, dealership printed invoice notice, etc. If I hadn't noticed it on the invoice I wouldn't have even asked, particularly since the windshield sticker stated they put in 5w30! I guess I'll start using the 5w20 if Honda is now guiding their dealership network to use it.

I don't post a lot in the forums, but I do read all the posts regularly. Thanks to everyone for the information, guidance and sharing of experiences.

LoveMyTL-S

I do my own oil changes with 5W30 but may change to 5W20 if this is true.......... Thanks for the info!

Dan Martin

5w20 will give you slightly better mileage and I imagine that's mostly the reasoning behind the change. Either way there's hardly any difference between the two and either will work fine.

drkangel348

Hmm, interesting... wonder if this is true?

Viking

Interesting did a little Not sure why Acura told you to use 5W-20.

http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/deal...w20-cafe.shtml

curls

Wouldn't a synthetic 5w20 have higher sheer resistance than a dino oil, though? I am interested in this, because I am looking to switch to Mobil 1 synthetic, but have the choice between 5w20 and 5w30 -- not sure which to go with.

~Eric

crfortin

I love my TSX, but these sort of dealer attitudes explain why people buy so many Lexus and Toyota instead.

You asked a legitimate question & it sounds like they & the Acura Hurtline gave you nothing but attitude/rudeness. Hell even if it wasn't a good question a real premium car company would have at least pretended your concerns were important and/or treated you with a modicum of respect.

Your car is a major investment in supposedly precision engineering. If they've changed something as basic as the oil recomendations they should tell you exactly when AND why when you ask.

& I don't think providing you with notice in the mail/new stickers would be entirely unreasonable.

Maybe there's a technical reason for the change, although it really sounds to me like someone at Acura US/local dealer decided was 5-20 is cheaper/available on hand and prob. wouldn't make a noticable difference unless you drove to Arizona in the heat. Gambling with your engine, parts and money. & Did they give you a better price ? I should think not.

K24tunr

This is an interesting topic. I would like more info like wether or not this change in oil weight is legit. I thought all the 4 cyclinder hondas/acuras was 5W30 and the 6 cyclinders like tls/mdx's ect were 5W20.

samkws

5w-20 gives a faster warmup and better fuel econ

if you tend to race then you better use 5w-30

but 5w-20 is fine

mg7726

i don't think there is 'major' difference that's noticeable by the owner. i use mobil synth 5w30 b/c i can get it cheap at costco's or bj's and normally do not see the 5w20 brands there.

DaveWhyman

In Canada, going with 5W20 will cost an extra $5-10 per oil change, if you don't go to the dealer. What litle bit you gain in fuel economy you probably lose in the oil change. It probably makes a bigger difference when it's cold.

Dan Martin

Actually they're both 5-weight oils when they're cold, the number after the W indicates their viscosity after they're warmed up.

samkws

how?

they don't charge extra for 5W20

i go to Sterne in Aurora

DaveWhyman

I go there too.

But if I end up having to get it changed elsewhere, (like god forbid Mr Lube or crappy tire) it's usually a little bit extra.

samkws

why mess up your car at those crappy places?

my bill is less than 40 dollars per oil change that includes free carwash

sauceman

Interesting. I'll inquire and if you are right, I'm a-moving to 5w20. If it can improve gas mileage, I'll do it!

justsomeboi

What about 10w-30?

sauceman

That is more viscous oil, and will be useless in the TSX's engine.

justsomeboi

What do you mean by viscious?
I heard that regular 10w-30 w/ lube control would be a good oil if you drive short distances and tend to drive aggressivly (redlines)

crfortin

is this is at all true it sounds like Honda decided to sacrifice our engine life/temp protecction for 0.2MPG fleet increase to help their CAFE standing with 5-20 and the best choice is to stick with 5-30 for protection and just go synthetic 5-30 if you want the best of both worlds protection/thermal resistance & pos. slight fuel economy improvement.

for an average driver doing 24k and 3 changes a year, how much more is this $60 on a 30,000 vehicle ?

sauceman

The 10 digit means the oil is thicker when it's cold. It will take longer to heat up, and also much longer to lube every part well upon cold starts. Stick with 5- grade oil, or better yet, 0-grade.

I'm a lot more at ease at playing with the first digit than the last one. The last one defines the way the oil acts when it's hot. And by the looks of it, the TSX engine seems to be able to run pretty hot, especially when it must meet high loads. (read rev-limiter)

geeaea

The 5w-20 will afford you a marginal fuel economy increase if your do mostly trips that are 20 minutes or less in duration. That is, it will be at a lower viscosity at any time you measure it between start up and TRUE thermal saturation of the engine (which, on average takes 20 minutes and up to 17 miles). Neither will have any impact upon your coolant rate of warm up. Otherwise ..it's just inside the the 20 weight designation ...or if you prefer ..just below a 30 weight. Heavier, more viscous, oils will generate more internal (self generated) heat with the mere effort it takes to pump them and shear them (sliding layers of oil films) ..but this is trumped by the btu's being passed through the oil from the pistons and the cylinder walls.

Unless your pressure relief is open on your oil pump ..there is no such thing as any oil pumping faster. 3 gpm ..is still 3 gpm last time I checked. The correct term, again assuming the pressure relief is not open, is that lighter oils pump EASIER.

MrChad

It's written right on the Filler cap 5w-30 to use anything else would seem contrary to what the engine is asking for IMO.

ZAXDude

I agree it's written on the filler cap, quite boldly in fact. I made that point to my dealership as well as AcuraCare to which I was told by both: "Honda now recommends 5w20 be used".

So, the point remains that they put 5w20 in my engine under the recommendation by Honda, the ultimate parent of our TSX's. I had hoped someone would have more insight regarding the apparent change. If anything, at least it may cause owners here in the forum who have their oil changed at the dealership to be more aware of what is actually going into the engine once it's drained.

For me, I've not yet decided if I'll now switch full-time to 5w20 or stay with what I've been using (5w30). I may just go with a compromise and use the Mobile synthetic blend 5w30.

If anyone has any experience with their dealership/AcuraCare that goes against what I was told, please post! Thanks...

Arcticcl9

I would put in 5w-30 since I drive my car pretty hard, it would give better protection if you drive to redline a lot. ...also the higher cost, lower availability and the minimal increase in mpg in the TSX would not be worth it if i used 5w-20

SodaLuvr

ZAXDude: Just got off the phone with Acura Customer Care, representative double-checked for me and stated that 5w-30 is still being recommended. 5w-20 will work fine as well, so don't lose sleep about it considering that most 5w-30 conventional oils sheared into a 20wt during the duration of the interval anyway.

Viking: Not necessairly are all 5w-20 oils inferior to 5w-30 oils in terms of film strength, and shear strength. For example, RL 5w-20 is superior to many 30wt conventionals and synthetics in terms of shear stability, HT/HS rating, and film strength. RL 5w-20 has a HT/HS of 3.3, which is superior to the HT/HS of both Mobil 1 5w-30 and 10w-30. In addition, most 5w-20 conventionals are more shear stable than 5w-30 conventionals due to the lesser span and fewer viscosity improvers being used.

Curls: Almost always, a synthetic is more shear stable than a dino. Mobil 1 5w-30 rarely shears, it is an excellent choice for this app.

justsomeboi/sauceman: 10w-30 is only more viscous than a 5w-30 at 40C, or in cold temperatures. Even then, the difference is usually less than 7cst. geeaea ran a test for Bobistheoilguy on how long it would take for oils of different viscosities to warm-up. For example, a 20w-50 warmed up faster than a 10w-30 to 100F (lets call that Point A). However, it took a 5w-20 the same amount of time as a 10w-30 to warm-up to point A. But, it took the oils the same amount of time to warm-up from Point A to Point B, which is 160F. Why did the 20w-50 warm-up faster? Because it was thicker upon startup, which cause more internal shear generated heat. The differences between the 5w-30 and 10w-30 should be negligible.

10w-30 are often more shear stable, yes even in synthetics, since fewer viscosity improvers are used. I suggested a 10w-30/LC combo for justsomeboi since from my understanding, he is quite an aggressive driver. I wanted to recommend an oil that would be the most likely to stay in grade despite shearing caused by fuel dilution. Lube Control (LC) is an excellent product used to control oxidation, dissolve carbon deposits, and have a positive effect on TBN without affecting the viscosity of the oil nor the additive package.

Michael

curls

Either you're avatar means you're some kind of oil engineer, or you've been studying www.bobistheoilguy.com for a while. Nice post, GREAT info. And bang-on accurate, too.

A general recommendation to 95% of people is to run Mobil-1 5w-30 full synthetic in their cars. Best all-around performance, great shear resistance, and one of the best synthetics on the market.

As Michael Wan said, if you spend a LOT of time in the redline zone, try a full synthetic 10w-30 (Mobil-1 again is great).

Winter (Canada and Northern USA): 5w-30, or 0w-30 if you live in really cold climates.

~Eric

ZAXDude

All I can add is that it's great you were told by AcuraCare they were recommending 5w30. This still doesn't explain why Matt @ AcuraCare specifically told me that Honda changed its recommended oil for the TSX to 5w20. I even have a case number.. Additionally, my dealership put in 5w20, so something must be up.

I think a dead horse is being beaten here, so I'm going to leave it alone. I'm just a little disappointed that one call to AcuraCare gets one response, and yet another gets a completely different one.

And, with the next oil change, it's on to the Mobile synthetic 5w30.

//JDMTSX//

so if your always in a warmer climate you should use a 10w oil??

justsomeboi

From talking to michael wan it would appear that 5w-30 is sufficient in warm temps. However, if your driving pretty hard near redline in warm weather constantly then 10w-30 might be better

jeffreytchui

Climate Considerations
Owner's manuals and service manuals will specify the acceptable oil to use at various temperatures. In warm climates, 10W30 is usually an acceptable alternative to the preferred 5W30 and may be used without measurable adverse effects. In the olden days, before multi-weight oils, it was common to have a winter oil and a summer oil. This is no longer necessary, but if you normally use 10W30 because you live in a warm climate then be sure to switch to 5W30 if you plan on using the vehicle in very cold weather.

5W30 versus 10W30
Virtually all new passenger vehicles sold in the U.S. use either 5W30 or 10W30 oil. The difference between the two is that the 5W30 flows better when cold, so if you live in a cold climate or operate your vehicle in a cold climate during the winter months, you should use 5W30 if it is the preferred oil for your vehicle. If you live in a sub-tropical climate and don't operate your vehicle in cold climates, then 10W30 is acceptable as long as the manufacturer specifies that it is permissible to use it.

Is there a disadvantage to using an oil that flows better when cold, i.e. 5W30 versus 10W30?
Sometimes, but usually not. The crux of the issue is this: the bigger the difference between the cold oil viscosity and the hot oil viscosity, the more the volume of viscosity modifiers and the less the volume of base stock. If you are good about following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval then stick with the 5W30 if that is the preferred oil for your vehicle, even if 10W30 is acceptable in warmer climates. Older cars may specify 10W30 only. This is because they need a little more viscosity when cold to keep a protective film on the cylinder walls. There have been instances where the larger amount of viscosity modifiers that are present in 5W30 have broken down due to excessive heat and have left carbon deposits on the valves, but this is extremely rare. The proper fix would be to reduce the excessive heat, but the workaround was to use an oil with less viscosity modifiers.

Why do many oil change places, even dealerships, use 10W30 instead of 5W30, even when 5W30 is preferred?
According to www.cartalk.com (see link in the references section), as well as many mechanics who have posted on usenet, 10W30 is the closest thing to a one size fits all oil. Many older vehicles need 10W30, and most newer vehicles are okay with it in warmer climates. Since many garages don't want to have multiple tanks of bulk oil they choose to carry only 10W30. The advice that Tom & Ray give is correct, 'it would not be a disaster if you used 10W30, but given a choice, go with the manufacturer's recommendation and use the 5W30.'

Thicker is Better Myth
The reason that oil viscosities have gotten thinner is because bearing clearances have become smaller. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil pressure will increase. In a worn engine it may be okay to increase the viscosity of the oil because the bearing clearances have become larger.

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sauceman

Only time I have rsorted to thicker oil for remedy was on my 89 Accord's A20A. I had one crank main bearing located exactly... in the oil pans, and the middle main was halfway there too. I had oil pressure problems at idle. So I set my idle at 1500rpm, and used Pennzoil 25W50 oil for about 40,000km.

EveofNemesis

i know this is an old post, but i had a similar post but people still dont know...

my situation differs slightly from yours though, i went to "honda" to get my oil changed becaused its MUCH closer to me. i noticed they put in 5w20, so i inquired about it, they gave me the same story you were told.....

i called acura up and asked about it, they told me strictly to put in what is on the cap. i asked then why would honda have told me otherwise they said they dont know but "acura" recommends what the manual and cap states...

so basically NO ONE knows exactly why for the change but you and i were told different things....

Billy

rb1

I bring in my own oil, problem solved. It's generally cheaper than what the dealer would charge you for it (especially for a synthetic), and even if not, it's rare that you would actually save much based on the dealer's price.

tsxowner1

I used to take my Honda Pilot to the dealership for oil changes and they used 5w-30 when the filler cap clearly states 5w-20. I asked them about it and I got one of those " there's not that much difference" reply. Been doing my oil changes for a while now and have been using what's on the filler cap.

TSX = 5w-30
Pilot = 5w-20

After reading all the posts here - seems like I should switch to 5w-20.

I do have a question though - what is the shelf life for an open, half-empty bottle? When I do the oil change for the TSX, I usually put 4.5 to 4.8 liters and end up throwing away the leftover on my next oil change thinking it goes bad. Am I wrong?

aaronng

If you don't use it, throw it anyway since you have 5L to use from your next bottle.

Bigtimebooch

Interesting thread! Here I thought I was going crazy because the sticker on my car for the oil change says 5W-20 was put in. The previous owner of the car worked at an Acura dealership and always had the oil changed there...good to know that it probably wont matter since I was considering jumping to synthetic.

SodaLuvr

5W30 is what you should be using. EOS...

curls

You can definitely use 5W-20, just look up posts by Michael Wan (if you can read Klingon / Oil-speak). But, for warranty purposes, stick with the recommended 5W-30 and call it a day.

aaronng

The manual should have a range of oil viscosities and environment temperatures. If I remember correctly, our AUDM could use 0w-20 up to 15w-40 without voiding warranty as long as the oil used is API rated higher than the standard mineral FEO (which is pretty easy to beat anyway)