desertfoxaz

I've been lurking here for a while and i'll go ahead and make my first post.

I've been discussing cars with a coworker, and he thinks the best car to get is the TSX. I have checked it out and the TSX is definitely on the list of cars I am interested in. However, I have driven one and wasn't completely impressed.

The TSX is a much more beautiful car in person than it is in photos, and the overall size seems just right. I drove it and my impressions were:

1. The fit and finish were very good. Definitely an improvement over my current ride.

2. The model I was driving was silver with the black interior with the silver trim. I am not really fond of the silver trim and I will not get black leather living in Phoenix. The quartz interior looks downright cheap to me but I love the parchment and wood. My neighbor (I don't know him) has a black one with the parchment interior and it looks like a million bucks. The problem is that the parchment interior only comes with black, red, or white paint. I won't have another black car, as my current car is black, and red just isn't me. White is okay, but for some reason they are hard to come by. The meteor silver is my favorite color, but parchment isn't available.

3. The performance wasn't quite what I was looking for. My test drive was limited to surface streets, and I noticed that when I accelerated hard, there was some torque steer. The horsepower is plenty, but the torque leaves me wanting more. I am used to having a lot of torque and I feel the TSX could use more.

4. Gas milage should be better. From what I hear, most owners are getting low-to-mid 20's combined, which is ridiculous for a 4-cylinder. My Mustang GT gets 21 mpg combined with a V8.

5. Why does every car I've seen have the nav system? I don't want it but it looks like ones without it are hard to come by. I wouldn't pay for it.

I had originally planned on buying a Saab 9-3, but with the reports of quality problems as well as the 2004 option packages have changed and I can't get the car I want without going all-out and getting the Aero model, which is out of my price range. What I really liked about the Saab was that it had a lot more torque than the TSX which means it's more fun to drive, and appeared to have better handling (although a better test drive of the TSX might prove that incorrect), and I didn't perceive any turbo lag or torque steer, and I drove it pretty hard. Owners are reporting combined gas mileage as high as 38 mpg, which is astounding. The insurance is likely to be a lot less than an Acura too.

I have seen pictures of the new Volvo S40 and it looks very nice, but until I see it in person, it's going to be hard for me to tell if the car is going to be too small (it actually has more interior room than the S60) a car for my likes. The T5 model looks very good and appears to have good horsepower and torque. However, with the Saab, I am not sure about the reliability of that brand, especially with a new model.

I love my current car, but a coupe isn't practical for me anymore and with a 50-mile-per-day commute, I'd like something that gets better fuel economy. The TSX doesn't appear to get better mileage and uses premium gas, which my current car does not.

I'd like to have something what is attractive but not too flashy, comfortable, reliable, fun to drive, and fuel efficient. And I don't want to be like every other person in the world and drive something common as a Camry or Accord.

I've checked out the IS300 (too soft, horrible gas mileage), Nissan Maxima and Altima (too unrefined and expensive; the Altima SE listed at $29,000!), the Jaguar X-Type (too small and too expensive) and I won't drive a German car as I hate Mercedes and BMWs are way too common around here, and my folks used to have an Audi and it was nightmare.

I probably won't be buying until next summer, so I am not in any real rush to buy anything.

I wouldn't mind owning a TSX, but I can't help but think I would not be satisfied with it.

By the way, I saw a new TL this morning and it was very nice! I thought it was a TSX when it was coming up behind me but when it passed (I let it pass so I could get a good look at it) found out it was the new TL. It looks much better in black than it does in silver, as I have seen in pictures. Perhaps I will look into that model, although it might be out of my price range, plus may be a bit larger car than I want.

LeMasseHammer

Now that you're no longer just a lurker, let me be the first to welcome you

It sounds like you've done your homework and you're in a good mental state for car shopping.

One thing that caught my eye in your post was the way you equate torque with fun. We've run across plenty of folks who just can't stomach the lack of low end punch, and this just isn't the car for them. An coming from your V8 might cause some withdrawl. But for me, a big part of the fun in the TSX is rowing the gears up high. This engine is a joy, and seems to have a nice mix of quiet when you want it, and a bit of snarl when you want it, and it pulls nicely all the way up to redline. Every time I glance down to see the tach hit 7000, I can't believe the difference from my old Camry's 4-cyl engine (which was a reliable/torquey one in its own right). They both get very close to the same mileage, but the Camry was 125hp/145tq

I bought my TSX for the value, reliability, and handling. The rev-happy engine turned out to be a fun bonus -- although it took some getting used to.

Regarding gas mileage -- I drive my 6MT hard, and 90% in the city, and I'm getting 21-23mpg. That's pretty good in my opinion, considering the impressive HP this 4-cyl puts out.

I totally agree about the Maxima/Altima stuff.

ecsw

TL is even worse on fuel. :P U never mention Mazda6 in your list? Not in consideration at all? That would be a good choice for cheaper price yet uses regular fuel. Also, not as common as Accord or Camry and cheaper than Altima and handles similar to TSX.

ALFA

How about a G35? I just got mine for $ 29,500 with 6spd and sunroof. No premium or Navi. No need for any of them and I think for the price is the value of the decade. The power is great and has great handling. My short list also had the TSX and the 9-3 Vector. They are both great cars, but for me, now the G35 is the most bang for the buck. The interior is not as great as the TSX but is not as bad as the 9-3. You quickly forget about it when you punch it anyway. Good luck! and enjoy your search, any car you decide for is great.

darth62

The quartz interior looks cheap? You're the first person I've ever seen suggest that.

I have the quartz, and love it. It is my favorite of all the interior colors.

tsx-mdxman

You should get mid 20's or so at least overall for fuel consumption, once broken in, whether stick or auto. It's a lot of fun to drive, so many people are pushing it on their daily commutes and not achieving the "standard." Compared to V-8, the torque will seem miniscule for sure but by any other standard, it's terrific and the curve is pretty flat. Best 4 cylinder I've owned/driven. Torque steer is not present in the TSX to any noticeable extent.
Don't like the quartz? Me, I like how the quartz gray goes with the metallic band and the black dash, a nice contrast. Plus it was available the day I was looking and ebony wasn't...heh heh. Nav equipped cars are the hardest to get here, the ratio looks like maybe 2:5 or 1:5. I'm sure you can find a non-navi car.
But, if you like V8's and you're not used to I4's, you may have expectations regarding torque, top speed, etc, the TSX will never meet. It's not a Mustang type car. Retest it and the competition again until you're comfortable. Good luck in your search.
_______________________________
04 TSX CG AT/NAV
03 MDX SSM TOURING/NAV/RES

desertfoxaz

I haven't actually seen the quartz interior in person, but photos I have seen of it posted on this site don't make it look very good. I am sure it looks better in person, but the lower-dash plastic in that shade doesn't look too good for me. Light/medium Gray isn't really a rich-looking color to me. I've seen a lot of economy cars (i.e. Ford Escort) that had that color plastic and, while the quality of those materials is significantly better in an Acura product, color makes a big difference, even though the materials from color to color in the same care are the same.

The Mazda6 is an interesting car. I checked one out at the MazdaSpeed store in the mall, where they had all the Mazda models. It is a nice car, and the build quality is better than I was expecting, but I don't like that silver interior trim and excessive body cladding on the 6s (6-cyl). The 6i (4-cyl) doesn't have the cladding and looks kind of tinny without it. I think that car looks too boy-racer to me and I'd like to stay away from it.

I am sure the G35 is a nice car, but the styling of the sedan doesn't quite work for me (especially the rear) and honestly, after checking it out at the auto show, the interior looks really cheap and again, if the sport package is selected, you get the silver painted interior trim. You could sit in the car, and already that trim was scratched up. I guess silver trim the trend today, but I don't really care for it. I think the exterior design might not hold up after a few years. However, Infiniti got it right in terms of engineering. At this point, I am still not sold on the overall fit and finish of their products, compared to the other Japanese makes.

I liked the interior of the 9-3, personally, although I think the radio controls using the menu system was a bit more complicated than necessary. I know a lot of people see all the buttons and right away assume that there's something wrong with it. I saw three of them yesterday on the road, but to this point, TSX's are pretty rare around here.

I suppose I could get used to the difference in power delivery between my current vehicle and the TSX, but my car has almost twice the torque as the TSX and it is definitely noticable. I realize that these are two different classes of cars, so a direct comparison isn't really viable. Again, I won't be buying until summer so I'll have to do more research and check out any new cars that come out.

It's good to see that the community isn't as hostile as some other boards out there. Finally one that has some civilized people! Thanks.

dnb

Welcome!

Hmmm. It's hard to fnd a car that satisfies the above requirements in addition to your torque requirements and price ceiling. Since you're in no hurry to buy a car, I suggest keeping an eye out for the upcoming Subaru Legacy B4. IIRC it will have a twin turbo V6. I have no idea what its price will be.

gotsand

Hi Fox, welcome to the forum. I live in NW Phoenix (Peoria) and we have a Nighthawk Black MDX and the Carbon Grey/Ebony TSX. We bought the MDX in Los Angeles and later moved to Phoenix. The heat is definitely a factor here, but from my personal experience, my black and grey cars are not oppressively hot inside. I mean 110 degrees is 110 degrees no matter where you are and what color background you are experiencing. I'm pretty sure your current car has tinted windows which help a lot. Luckily, my cars are garaged at home and at work. (I take a daily express bus to downtown Phoenix and park the car in a covered park 'n ride lot). The MDX has a saddle interior. The ebony interior of the TSX and the chrome accent is a classy look, IMHO. Just my view on the color issue. Other than that, I can appreciate your concern about the power issue. My wife and I are just crazy about the overall features of the TSX. In fact, she drives it more now than I do. We have the nav system in both cars and wouldn't be without it. It helped us get around this town and still does. The folks on this forum can add a lot of information for your search.

Count Blah

I'll chime in on your color concerns. I've got the Silver/black like the one you drove. I live in South FL where it's always hot (86 right now just like in Phoenix) and I didn't have a problem this summer with the black leather. Even when I left the sunroof's shade open, it didn't seem to get as hot as my previous car (1994 Camry, silver with gray leather). Seems like the windows are fairly good at reflecting the heat?

I wanted to like the quartz interior, but it just didn't look good to me. The parchment I didn't like because the wood trim just doesn't match the silver metallic accents in all TSX's. I was a little worried about black leather in the Florida sun, but it's been fine. I think the perferated leather helps.

Count Blah

FWIW, I think the Altima can be had for much less than that. On CarsDirect, I just priced a 3.5 SE with the Premium Leather Package (the most inclusive and expensive) and ABS/Side Airbags for $25,710, more than $2k off list. You can probably get similar (or better?) deals at the dealer.

I didn't see you mention it.. do you want a manual or automatic?

desertfoxaz

DNB,

Monster torque isn't a requirement, but I thought it's odd that a lot of cars these days have good horsepower numbers but not much torque. That's what all the emphasis is on. I don't drive like a maniac, but it's good to have a lot of torque when you need it, such as passing semis on the freeway. Of course, vehicle weight has a lot to do with it, and I guess my Mustang is pretty heavy compared to a lot of other cars.

GotSand,

My Mustang is black with charcoal cloth interior. I didn't opt for the leather since it looked really cheap. I am not against leather, as long as it's done well. My sister has a Tahoe and it has pretty nice leather for a non-luxury vehicle. The Mustang's leather seats (except on the Cobra) are somewhat lacking in quality. The Altima was the worst!

A lot of people make a big deal about black cars being hotter in the summer than lighter colors, but I personally think that's a non-issue. The heat comes in through the windows so it's really the window tinting that makes the difference. I had a white car before my current one (which my dad bought from me when I got my new car) and there isn't much of a difference I can tell based on car color.

Count Blah,

Actually, its about 100 degrees in Phoenix today (near record high). I wish it was 86!

My charcoal cloth seats aren't hot, but I think that's more because they're cloth and not leather. White leather would be more hot I think. I keep my car garaged at home, but at work, it's out in the sun for 8 hours at a time and we're right next to the indian reservation where there is barren desert and dust is a big problem. I can't keep my black car looking nice under those conditions.

I didn't like the Altima when I actually got a chance to inspect it. While I think the exterior styling is very attractive, the interior is really cheap looking and driving it wasn't that much fun. It supposedly has 240 hp but I couldn't tell by driving it. It didn't appear to be as fast as everyone claims either. The 29K price seemed rather excessive, and the salesman suggested I'd be better off looking at the G35 or a Maxima for that price. The fit and finish doesn't match the asking price, and the lettering spelling out "Altima" on the trunk lid weren't even straight!

I want an automatic. I have always had them and that's what I plan on staying with. I spend so much time in heavy traffic that it's not worth my time to shift for myself.

desertfoxaz

Got Sand,

FYI -- I am in Glendale, near Arrowhead Towne Center...but work in North Scottsdale

darth62

Color is also a personal choice and I certainly would not blame you if you didn't like the quartz interior. For me, it was ideal, it is not a dark (and hot) as the black, but won't get dirty quickly like the tan. I have a good friend with an Accord EX (which admittly has cheaper feeling leather than the TSX) and her leather looks kind of dirty after only six months. Anyway, the quarty looks kind of like a light blue in person. I really like it and encourage you to take a look. But, again, I can respect that you might not like it and also understand that the high reving TSX engine (which has less torque down low than some engines) might not be your cup of tea.

Jaybird

In response to dnb's suggestion of Legacy b4, this is an excellent choice as an '05 model, the platform obviously will be AWD, but rumored to have a single turbo boxer six for the stateside market, down about 20 bhp or so. Hopefully the J-spec B4 will come to fruition here.

peetah

If you're not buying until next summer, you should be able to get the configuration you want. Demand is so hot right now, it was hard for me just to see the various exterior/interior color combinations in person (websites and brochures don't cut it for me). Meteor silver's bluish tint looked great, but the one I saw was already sold. Carbon grey didn't look so impressive in person, so I ended up getting white after two week wait. For me, I preferred white exterior/ebony interior combo, but that's only available in Canada.

I'm getting 28MPG and expect that to iimprove after the breakin period.

gotsand

Desertfox, we live just north of Arrowhead Mall (Deer Valley Rd). That's a hell of a commute for you from Glendale to N. Scottsdale. I bought our TSX at North Scottsdale Acura -- Bell Acura had a waiting list. Still love that car!!

Iceman

Fox, that was a nice writeup. You have obviously put some thought into this. A few random thoughts:

1. If you move from a V6 or a V8 to a TSX, you will feel you are giving something up in the engine compartment. No question about it. What you get back is a) lighter front end, leading to b) better handling and c) better gas mileage. If you really can't live without the extra torque of a V6, try leasing a new TL. The lease payments should be within your price range, and you can get a lease that allows you to buy the car at the end of the lease period for a price you can afford.
2. With the 6 speed, you can get 24 mpg city easy, and 27 highway. Keep the RPM at 3000 when cruising, and you get instant acceleration when you put the hammer down. You can get better mileage than this by driving slower, but why?
3. If you were getting torque steer, you were driving a bad example. As gilbo is fond of saying, how can you have torque steer without torque? Whaddya think this is, a Maxima SE? Test drive a different TSX. I have 8000 miles on my blue bullet, and I have never had torque steer when accelerating in a straight line.
4. For $27k, the TSX is a flat-out steal. If Acura would only build more of them, they could do serious damage to the sales of certain overpriced German cars.

desertfoxaz

Iceman,

A lease is out of the question. I drive nearly 20,000 miles per year and I'd be paying a serious mileage penalty. I plan on buying, regardless of what I end up getting.

(I used to live in N. Peoria and commute to Mesa! Glad I don't have that drive anymore!)

(GotSand) I did my test drive at Bell Acura, and we went up 7th Ave to Union Hills to 7th Street back to Bell. If you are familiar with the area, it isn't a good test drive because of the traffic and relatively low speed limits.

It might not have been torque steer, but whenever I accelerated, the steering jerked a little bit. I thought it was from a road defect, but it happened two different times, so it's hard to say for sure. I can't say I was really gunning it either. It was an automatic. I won't consider a 6-speed, regardless of any possible gains in fuel economy.

I don't want to bother with salespersons pestering me by going for another test drive since I won't be buying for a while.

No doubt Acura has a hit on their hands; they just need to meet the demand. Strange however, I have probably seen only 10 since they went on sale. I was expecting to see a lot more.

Dan Martin

I wouldn't worry about the fuel economy gains of a MT vs an AT. Although it's possible to get better mileage (especially hwy miles) with a MT, people tend to drive them harder than if they had an AT thus negating any fuel economy benefits.

Jab31169

With my 6MT when I have majority city with alot of redline I can average about 26mpg. When its nothing but interstate I have pulled 30mpg off 15 gallons.

Dan Martin

Sweet! Can't wait to get mine....

DJDZ

Quote:
I'd like to have something what is attractive but not too flashy, comfortable, reliable, fun to drive, and fuel efficient. And I don't want to be like every other person in the world and drive something common as a Camry or Accord.

Sounds like a job for the TSX!!!!!

darth62

Holly thread revival, Batman!

ric

you've obviously done a lot of thinking about this to date. A couple of observations..........

I set out to lease the TL, which I thought would be an ideal size with ample power and a tidy body. (mine is a company car, the lease is a "perk" and I lease with a 20,000 mpy base....) I test-drove the TSX on a lark, and left with a lease for that instead. The lease differential was only $50, and was not a critical part of my decision. I've had the car for about 10,000 miles, and have driven it all over the place and don't for the moment, regret it.

A common complaint, and one I'll share, is that the car lacks about 20-40 hp to give it the final push to make it truly a tougher car. Off the block acceleration is not gutsy, but I was surprised that in freeway and highway driving, I have more than ample accelerative ability to navigate in bumper/bumper traffic with ease. A lot of my driving is on congested freeways and having the gutty passing ability is essential. My previous car was a Jetta V6 with sports suspension and 17" wheels, a gutty little car, but rambunctious in comparison, and frankly not as nimble on the road - jerkier handling.

If your daily commute is mostly freeway, you will find your average milage in the upper part of the range you are looking at. When I am doing exclusively freeway driving, I can get about 33 mpg, and I drive fast and rather aggressively, for the most part. Pure city driving drops to 23. The TL, if you run a mileage search on the TL site, will be about 3-8 mpg less, so if you go to the TL, expect your mileage to get worse, not better and it, too, uses premium fuel. The TL will give you more pure power, no question about it, but it will be at the cost of some elegance of handling, at which the TSX excells.

I looked at the S40 (waited until it came out to make my lease decision) and found that although the interior was cute in a techy way, the handling left something to be desired - classic Volvo tank handling. I was disappointed, frankly.

I like the metal trim, but I note that aftermarket wood trim is available so that you could "convert" whatever combo of colors you got with aftermarket fitout.

Taste is a personal thing, but frankly, I think the TSX is one of the better examples of a small 4/door sedan out there - clean lines, not a lot of glitter, crisp body definition and an understated but very ergonomic interior.

Dr. T

My '91 Legend has 240,000 miles, I used to put 25,000 a year on it. The driver's seat is worn down to the padding. Mechanically it's been unbreakable. Other Hondas I'm acquainted with have given similar fantastic results; so I would definitely look to a Honda or Toyota product if I wanted a commute car to go 20,000 miles a year.
For me, the TSX is just the right size and I love the handling. Sure, more torque would be nice, but it's secondary for me.
You can only decide by driving the cars. I love the looks of the A4, but it's not reliable, and I don't find the handling exciting. The G35 also didn't do anything special for me. The TL is powerful, but not as much fun to fling around corners.
I'm getting a PWP partly because a white car is cooler in hot weather, e.g. in Sacramento Valley. You can easily get one if you put in an order.

dgracer

I'm a CL-S'er from 2001 and I can say that I will probably get another Acura based on my 76k miles of experience and amazing condition of my car. Regarding mileage, I drive 95 miles per day, 25% city and I get 30mpg driving normally but smoothly. I've been thinking about TL or TSX and It seems odd that the TSX doesnt get better mileage. TL guys have gotten 32, 33 even 34mpg. I havent seen anyone on the TSX side getting much over 30. I know it turns more rpm so that it has passing power so that must be the reason. Has anyone gotten more than 30 driving nicely on the hiway?

PixelHarmony

TSX is definately a reliable (assuming it carries the great honda quality) sports car you can toss around. It's fun to drive and nice enough to feel like luxury. I seems like that's what you're looking for get a TSX

darth62

Consumer Reports tested the fuel economy of the TSX, and got 36 mpg on the highway.

Brain640

I agree with everything that Dr. T said, especially the part about the '91 legend (mine is in the garage but ready to be sold and in amazing shape for being so old). Can't say i agree with you about PWP though... CG is just the way to go these days.

Creaminz

You crazy!! Quartz interior does not look cheap!! And I can't believe you are complaining about TSX's gas mileage!! My trip to San Diego I had my Parents & brother in my car, I got 32 mpg!!!!!! That's too good!! I'm currently driving FX35 and 18.1 MPG!~ Oh by the way have you thought about getting Artic Blue Pearl? Man I just saw one on a freeway tonight (101 South, Santa Barabra area) oh man!~ Looks so nice!!!! I wanted to get closer to get a better look but traffic wasn't good. G35 Sedan VS TSX? As a Infiniti owner, let me tell you, Acura's Fit & Finish is much better than Infiniti. Volvo S40?? Never like'em. I'm not a Acura Salesman, but I was once owner of Acura TSX, and I strongly recommend you this Nice~ vehicle. Speking of bang for the buck...are you kidding me? TSX SOLD!!!!!!!!

TheOne305

I've have gotten 34 mpg .On another realistic matter (not quoting this thread)if you had a TL and TSX go on a long distant travel like 400 miles i bet the TL will probably use a gallon more fuel.I'm cool with that sacrafice for driving in lux.

RMATIC09

I wonder if the guy got the tsx...

a_TSX_4_Me

2 things:

1) Gas mileage, at least in my particular TSX, blows me away. With spirited driving (I'm 20), I consistently get 26-27mpg combined, and on long highway trips i get 32-33 mpg

2) I was worried about lack of torque, but once you learn how to work the engine, it is fast, at least to me. My friend has a A4 3.0 (yeah, i know, not the fastest, but not the slowest either), and he always feels that my car is faster

Creaminz

If you want your car to feel alot faster INJEN INTAKE!~~~~~~~~~

a_TSX_4_Me

creaminz, if only u knew how much i want one.....when my warranty is up, all hell is breaking loose (i know, i could do it before then, but no, i'm stubborn, and i'm gonna wait ;-) )

Creaminz

Well done That's good because by the time when your warranty expires(At least another 3~4 yrs) you 'MIGHT'(I doubt it) get tired of you car but then you put one of those Intakes(Injen, K&N,Typoon) you will be like all~~
As soon as I put Intake on my car it felt like totally different car you know what I mean? You still have that Luxury feel and plus you get that Super Sports Sedan like feel Boooooo!!!~~~~~~~~~~~ I hope your time come very soon.

virtualbong

I'm feeling the same way. Hopefully in the spring, I'll be able to pickup a TSX. I'll most likely make some immediate modifications, ie. Lowering Springs, 35% Tint all around, Aftermarket Wheels, and maybe new Catback system). But after the warranty is over with, I'd probably look into getting a CAI or SRI, Header and High Flow Cat. I drive alot so the warranty will most likely be over after a couple years or so.