Foolish Pleasure

As much as I am upset about the constant rattles, I really cant say enough about this engine. Do you think there is a better a 4 cylinder engine out there? I doubt it. If there is its probably another Honda engine....perhaps the s2000's? The refinement and power in a 4 cyl like this is pretty amazing. At 6,000 miles it still feels like its getting "loose." Someone once stated that Honda basically is an engine builder that looks for things to put engines in...the more I drive this car and the more I hear about Honda building pickups (Ridgeline looks awesome) and corporate jets, the more I believe it!

dom

I think there are better 4 cylinders out there yes (All Hondas) but this is definently the perfect 4 cylinder for this car.

Having said that it could use another 20 to 30HP.

jiggaman

could 20 or 30 more HP really be achieved from the factory without reliability issues?

dom

If a 2.0L Honda engine can make 220 and 240HP,

Xtremespeed2102

what did they do to make it have the 220 hp? and have .4 less displacement.... shouldnt we technically be able to atleast make that or even higher?

jiggaman

what engines make that? or what cars have that?

TinkySD

easily. Leaving engine internals alone and discounting the fact you might be able to get a large portion of this from tuning the ecu alone honda could easily grab another 10-15hp on the top end while bumping toruqe in the low end even more by switching to a dual runner intake manifold. The stock one is a "blended single runner setup for strong midrange" according to acuranews.com

dom

Are you guys serious?

You do realize the S2000 has 240HP from a 2 and now a 2.2L. The RSX-S has a 2.0L 200HP/210HP motor and the current Integra Type R and AccordEuro R both have the 2.0L 220HP motor.

Xtremespeed2102

ohhhhh so maybe thats why theyre waiting.....

dom

None of those motors will make it in to the TSX. Not enough tourque.

If thats what you meant?

dom

Gotta be Jigga sarcasm..............again.

jiggaman

nope not this time. just stupidity

Xtremespeed2102

noo i ment that u said they were waiting to release the program, they prolly know that the 2.4l can put out much more than they are getting right now. that and that the engine and ecu is very advanced... atleast i would hope. but with the new RL out i would hope that they are sharing pointers between eachother

MSZ

Actually our S2k is underrated, since it first released in late 1999 in Japan, the JDM S2k has been using the same 250ps 2.0L inline-4. (about 245hp?)

nightdriver

How bad are your rattles? Do you feel your experience is in the minority or do other TSX owners you know have rattles issues? Thanks.

Saintor

IMO and according to my experience, it takes much more than 6000 miles for this engine to get loose. My Accord did get better and better until 40000 miles and hasn't changed since, now at 90000 miles.

Xtremespeed2102

mines pretty loose and i just racked on the 8000th mile a week ago. she still pulls hard as ever but i drive her every day, im trying to get my dad to give me input on wether it changed much cuz he drives it once ever month or so. but he drives like an old man and i dont think he knows what a "butt dyno" is....
eh, she keeps my buisy. i wouldnt worry i dont have any rattles cept for some of the interior ones but they come and go. i dont let it bother me much any more, just turn the radio up if they come back cuz i kno theyll leave like they came

Foolish Pleasure

Lets see...when I bought it I found that the plastic around the shifter (I have a 5AT) creaked. Took to dealer who replaced the plastic but it still clicks now and then even after I put some rubber "shims" in there. Now I have another clicking noise coming from the console and I have the dreaded windshield creaking noise coming from the passenger side.

I actually think this is pretty much the norm. Those that dont have the windshield issue probably live in climates that are more mild than where I am. It kicks in around 35 degrees.

I think my drivers seat may be starting to move slightly when I make abrupt stops but I am not sure.

These issues I believe are pretty typical and can be seen in the problems and fixes area. My dealer is pretty poor so that is part of the problem too.

The car is a great car....the issues I mention here are probably exagerrated as most people without issues dont post. I wouldnt let them stop you if you are in the market to buy.

indydriver

If you do a search of early discussions on this board, you will find a lot of interesting stuff on the K24A2. First, it is a heavily stroked version of the two liter, making it a very "undersquare" design (i.e., stroke larger than bore). This results in very high piston speeds (one poster ranked it #9 of all mass produced engines!). This suggests there isn't a lot left in this particular design. Probably won't be too friendly (reliable) to aftermarket forced induction. Enjoy it for what it is and don't try to make it something more appropriate for a different platform.

aaronng

Honda's speciality is in making engines that spin faster. When NA engines spin faster, they make more power for the same torque. Now the K24A2 is a good engine, but by the undersquare design, it cannot spin any faster without using Nikasil coating and balanced pistons. Unless they pull the K24A2 apart and hand polish and balance and get the block redesigned for Nikasil (because it is thinner than the iron sleeve), it is difficult to get more power from the K24A2 apart from FI. I guess the compromise that Honda did with the K24A2 was that given the limitation for power, they instead decided to make it smooth throughout the entire rev range.

ClutchPerformer

I got beat up last time I said this was the best 4 cylinder ever. I can't find the thread right now, though...

sauceman

Here it is:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13223

Karl O.

I think people are already getting 215 whp out of the TSX engine without much ECU tuning and without raising the rev limiter, just a bunch of bolt-ons. That should equate to 240+ at the crank. With lots of ECU tuning I don't think 250 HP at the crank is out of the question. At that point you're going to spend so much time spinning your inside tire without some sort of LSD that more power is not going to be helpful.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

It is a great engine, but what's holding it back is the weak fuel map program. Tuned for economy, not performance.

I believe the compression ratio on the S2k (11.5:1) is also higher than in the TSX (10.5:1) That bump in compression alone will gain the 20-40 hp the TSX is missing.

dom

Link. I don't think anyone has come close to 215 WHEEL HP?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

On a 6MT TSX that would work out to be an increase of 60 +/- crank horserpower given a 15-18% drivetrain loss. It would also put the TSX around 14.5 @ 93-95 MPH (based upon weight vs. hp) and I don't think any TSX has hit those numbers yet.

TinkySD

The poster was misinformed.... though we have seen a dyno of a k24a2 that hit 215 whp. A base rsx user swapped a stock tsx motor into his ride and gave it the standard i/h/e treatment along with fuel/vtc tuning with his hondata kpro. Swapping the motor elimintaed the drive by wire system which has been the sticking point thus far for hondata.

With i/h/e and tuned ecu he hit 215 hp and 181 lbft torque at the ground and supposedly this with an untuned low cam.


Here is the best dyno we've seen with the stock ecu.(i know stokeless had a better hp figure but the torque curve on this one is sweeeet)


With hondata the tsx is going to be the car everyone wanted in the first place.

dom

Hondata is in my future if ever available.

TinkySD

where's that "i can take the turn at 53mph" domnatar when I need it....

indydriver

Yeah, that's it. That was a great post Sauce. I'm curious, where did you find that info and how do you know that it was all inclusive?

indydriver

Interesting to compare these actual dyno runs to the power curve in the 2005 brochure. According to Acura, the VTEC dip doesn't exist. It is clear from every dyno run posted on this site that there is a noticeable dip in power at 6,000.

sauceman

No way! Not more than 10 hp. And even then, I'm pretty generous.

sauceman

About an evening worth of research around the net led me to that.

If you search, you can find a few sites that will have a piston speed calculator. You just need to add in the specs, and voila!

aaronng

Bolt ons will of course work fine on the K24A2 because it improves cylinder filling, and hence increase the torque slightly in the upper rpm range. I was talking about AFTER bolt ons. The ECU might give you a bit of extra if it is tuned rich from the factory, but that is it. Bolt ons and ECU.

Increasing the compression ratio, aggressive cams, upgrading valve springs and lightening the valves, pistons and conrods won't do much. It will increase the max torque point to a higher RPM, but the engine won't be able to spin any faster to take advantage and make more power.

Power = Torque x RPM
____________5252

You can only increase power by increasing either torque or RPM. Since RPM is limited by piston speeds, then you have to look at increasing torque.

sauceman

Well said.

TinkySD

Just wanted to toss in with Hondata and these ivtec motors you can adjust a/f ratio, ignition timing and cam angle which is what gives it the ability to produce such great gains. If you look at the rsx swap dyno and assume that with i/h/e the car was hitting 190-195hp(which is generous since the best dyno we have is 185hp) the ecu tuning netted somethign like 20hp/20lbft of torque!