provench

Well folks ... I have an opportunity to rent Hertz cars for when I travel. In this case it was for a trip from NC to NY :-) (so wassup to all you NY TSX drivers ... I am in the Poughkeepsie area).

Well - I saw the Mazda6 on the list so I got one. That being said it is the 4 cylinder version but .............

- Overall - this car is very well put together and I quickly felt at home being a TSX driver as the similarities are amazing. The handling, size, European-like design are amazingly close. It is very clear these two cars are DEAD on for the same type of buyer. I think Acura is fooling itself to #1 not compare itself to the M6, and #2 not offer an less luxurious package footprint for the TSX to compete with entry level M6. I know the Accord covers some of this, but then again ... not really. This whole "luxury brand" split really limits chances for continuity in the line-up for Honda/Acura.

- Handling ... WOW ... not sure if the V6 version peps this up, but this is a very tight car on the corners

- Gauges ... as a previos RSX-S owner ... I really thinking the reddish-organge (dare I say BMW like) strikes of a racing look and feel and really is a phenominal look at night

- Gas mileage ... again the I4 version, but on the higway I was around 33-34 and the cruising distance for me was like 425 miles which is pretty good

- Speed ... well ... I would say the I4 feels QUITE peppy ... not fast, but peppy ... I think I really need to drive a V6 version to see how gutsy it is. Anyone know the 0-60 for I4 and V6 version? I am too lazy to look them up

- Interior - The quality is very good ... the material for the dash is very similar to what the TSX has ... soft/padded/solid

- Stereo - Good enough for me ... probably not good enough for anyone who doesn't like any stock radios. I dare say it is on par with the stock TSX stereo

So I have to tell you at the end of the day I might have a slight regret for not driving the top 'o the line Mazda6 when I got my TSX. Not that one car is better than another or not, but my guess is I would have struggled VERY hard vs. my TSX/AV6 comparison that used.

Here is the other kicker .... I get DEEP cuts on Mazda cars as an IBM'er and I think that would put the top 'o the line M6 at around 5K cheaper than the TSX. That might have won me over had I driven the car.

Oh well ... just some thoughts and I know this comparison is worn out, but just my personal impressions. I love my TSX and probably in the end don't regret it, but the M6 is a damn nice car ... much respect ... M6 drivers are definetly gonna be similar in their priorities to us. Maybe like TSX cousins if you will

jlukja

Acura bills the TSX as an entry level luxury sport sedan. Their eyes are clearly focused "upward" by comparing the TSX to BMW 325, InfinityG35, Audi A4, MB230 etc. They probably don't want to acknowledge a 'non-luxury" brand car that may feel like, drive like, and have the features of, the TSX if it isn't a luxury brand and costs $5K less.

gilboman

acura's trying to fool customers to not realize the TSX has the blueprint of a family sedan like the Mazda 6 and not entry luxury sportsedans. i mean if acura did acknowledge the M6, they will have to admit the TSX is a sporty family sedan and not a entry lux sportsedan

fdl

I'd have to disagree. I think what makes the TSX and M6 so comparible is that the M6 is not a typical family sedan. Its much more sporty. I think both can be considered sports sedans, with the TSX being entry lux due its standard lux ammenities.

Count Blah

I probably would have bought a Mazda 6 a year ago, fully loaded with S-plan discount at around $23k, but they didn't have any on the lots and it would have taken a while to order it. But then I drove a TSX and I knew I couldn't go back to the Mazda. I guess the luxury look/feel of Acura won me over and I knew it was the car for me. The Mazda just felt cheap every time I sat in it, and the savings weren't enough for me.

gilboman

the M6 is not a typical familly sedan..but it is a sporty FAMILY sedan, all the reviews,tests have acknowledged it as a sporty FAMILY sedan, heck it just won the adward for best new family vehicle by the AJAC. but i guess it depends what you think a real sportsedan is. i mean if one considers a M6/TSX to be a real sportsedan..where do the 3 series, G35's, IS, C class all fit in? super sportsedans?

TSX 'R' US

Nah...they fall in the Super tarted up econobox category

STC

iTrader: (1)

My fiance got a Mazda 6 as a rental when she was on a business trip. She got the 4 cy w/ sportshift. She said it was cool, but my TSX is 10x better. Then she said her Evo would run circles around it. haha i love my girl!

7or8

If you two break up..can I marry her?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I drove the Mazda6 (both s and i) fairly extensively at last year's Mazda Rev It Up event. Both cars felt decent, though the 6s feels quite a bit heavier and nowhere near as nimble as the TSX. The 6i was okay, but lacks the high-end punch that the i-VTEC engine provides in the TSX. Since I was able to push the Mazda pretty hard, I got to feel out how well sorted the suspension was and it was solid, but I think the TSX has slightly better body control. The interior on the Mazda's were okay, but the huge amount of fake brushed aluminum-look plastic felt tacky to me. The controls don't feel as well put together as the TSXs and the gauge cluster was rather plain and boring, though functional. One shot against the Mazda was the auto-tranny couldn't keep up with me. It took way too long to kick down and refused to hold a gear. (I know that this is not what the car was designed for and that I would normally drive a manual in performance situations, but since I was going to be getting the automatic, I had to make sure it was competent and the TSXs is far more so than the Mazda) Overall, the feeling I got was that the Mazda was a competent car, with a sporty feel, but failed to properly define any particular characteristic and lacked the upscale feel I was looking for. The TSX, however, provides the same competency with an equally (if not greater) sporty driving experience but with a much more luxurious interior and the availability of many features not available on the Mazda with only a minor difference in price.

Long story short, I thought the TSX felt like a more substantial car and had all the characteristics and features I wanted for a little more money.

jcg878

I'll agree that the Mazda6 is a great car, but it wasn't for me. I didn't like the interior, and I felt that the AT was awful - slow to shift and a looonggg throttle lag - this is in the V6. It definitely handled very well but felt unsettled hitting a bump on a fast turn. A great car, especially for the money, but once I sat in the TSX the decision was made

gpsiir

I seriously looked at the Mazda6, but had to have Navi, and so.... Also, the M6 just seemed to feel "cheaper", and the problem list on the M6 at the time was extensive....

TSX Hokie

Sports Sedan as defined by Gilbo=RWD car powered by an I6 and not built by Honda

Sports sedan as defined by the rest of the automotive world=stiff suspension, side bolstering seats, generally smaller than a typical 'family sedan' (Camry), manual transmission offered, better acceleration than your typical base-engine economy car or family sedan

Put Joe Blow American Driver in a car with suspension as stiff as the TSX's or Mazda6's. he will say 'the ride is too rough'. However, put a driving enthusiast in a cushy Camry, and he will complain about body roll in corners and detached road feel. This is why the 'sports sedan' label came about; to attract drivers looking for cornering confidence and warn away those looking to ride on a cushion.

The TSX, A4, 9-3, 325i, G35, C240, and IS300 all have roughly equivalent luxury features, suspension tuning, and acceleration (the G35 is the only one with any substantial acceleration lead over the others). Unless you are at the track applying throttle into corners at high speeds, the differences between the different drivetrains (AWD, FWD, RWD) are largely invisible to the driver. You need to get nearly 300 horsepower before FWD is unable to handle launch (the new TL is about at the limit of what you can get away with for FWD). In the 200 HP range most of the above cars fall in (again, excluding the G35), the benefits of RWD are largely wasted (only with very bad tires, like the TSX's stock tires, is 200HP too much for the front wheels during launch). Oversteer into corners is generally only preferable in race conditions, and can get you killed on public roads. Plus, with the right chassis stiffening accessories, it isn't that hard to get a FWD car to oversteer. I think BMW's marketing team has done a good job of duping people like Gilbo into thinking they really need to pay for a RWD drivetrain in their 184hp, 3200lb compact entry-luxury car.

The Mazda6s has every bit of 'sport' the TSX offers, if not a little more. However, the means it uses to get there aren't very elegant. The M6 takes a big, low-tech, Ford V6 and manages 220 HP while burning alot of gas. The TSX uses a highly-tuned, VTEC 4-banger to achieve 200 HP (really more like 210 at the crank, as dynos have shown), great fuel economy, and a flat torque curve. The M6's lower price is largely offset by Mazdas' poor resale values and maintenance problems. You also get a cheaper interior, and a sluggish manual transmission compared to the TSX's silky-smooth 6-speed. Not to mention there are already many M6s on the road, and the TSX's role as a niche vehicle will keep it relatively unique.

I think a base M6i for $18k blows away any other sedan in that market segment, but to pay $25k for the loaded 6s does not seem like a great idea, considering the TSX costs only $2k more and offers a better interior, better gas mileage, a better manual transmission, better resale value, Honda reliability, and a few more cool features.

Mokos23

I only have to question the reliablity of Mazda's. My folks had an MPV back in the day and had lots of problems with it. So, I wanted to buy the 6, but folks said that would be not wise. Wanted an Rx-8 too, but same scenario.

RogerPodacter

The 3 series, G35, etc...all are great sport sedans and they are also out of many people's price range. I think the TSX/M6 appeal to people who are in the market for ENTRY luxury sport sedans. believe me if i could afford one i would get it. The TSX comes close enough for the price, for me.

kiteboy

Great post! You nailed it

tsx-mdxman

Ditto. Nothing wrong with BMW's, just that a certain owner continues to sound like a broken record.

gilboman

nah..its just blatantly obvious the differnces btwn FWD and RWD everytime i drive. unless one's trips consist of all straights and no movement of the steering wheel is required. but then most can still tell the difference between the felling of being pulled or pushed

drs253

Hi all - new to the boards but thought I would chime in here...

I'm going to be in the market for a new car in a few weeks and these two cars are among the top of my list. I plan on driving them back-to-back to see if the TSX is really worth the estimated $5k more. When comparing sticker to sticker, the TSX doesn't look that much more expensive. But once rebates and incentives are piled on (plus the fact that the dealers are willing to deal), then the whole picture changes.

I realize that you will end up paying for incentives later with the resale value, but when it comes time to sign the dotted-line and make payments every month, it is a crucial determining factor (in my opinion). With that said, if the 6 just doesn't cut it in terms of fit and finish (have never driven one, drove a TSX when they first came out), then it will probably be worth it to spend the extra money.

My 2 cents...

phile

The quality of the 6's interior is below that of the TSX's. That's not to say that the Mazda's interior is awful; it's better than a Nissan Altima's.

But I just saw a TV ad for Mazda advertising 0.0% financing for 60 months...I'd go for the 6 in that case. Actually I'd go for a Tribute.

drs253

Funny you mention the Altima. Have you seen the new 2005 model? Being in Asia for the last few months, I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, however I will before buying anything once I get back. According to the reviews I've read, the interior is MUCH improved and comparable to other vehicles in it's class. Not up to the TSX standards I'm sure, but is probably worth a look...

biker

tsx-hokie makes a good point that the average joe can't tell the difference between the cars listed. But just as gilboman can, there are many others that also can tell and are willing to pay the higher price for that difference.
Just like this M6 vs. debate. For the average joe the difference won't justify the price difference but to the typical person leaning towards a better feel the TSX wins.

provench

I mean just for the sake of the thread ... can we try to list some of these un-noticable differences?

We don't wanna sound like "those BMW guys" j/k

And oh yeah ... just some more food for thought on the numbers. The MSRP of a well configured V6 comes to around 24.5K (just did it). Combined that with $1000K cash back + 0% + getting some more off the price and we are talking . So even if I forget the IBM discount (which makes this 1K off of close to invoice). Let's say you can walk away with this car for $21.5K + 0% over 5 years ... $358/month ...

Oh well .... just fun to look at some other options ... and I posted here because I think this car has 95% of the things that most TSX buyers are looking for. I know it does for me ....

That being said ... where is my IMA AWD TSX

STC

iTrader: (1)

haha

phile

I saw the new Altima interior at the auto show. Compared with the old interior, anything is much improved! But seriously, the quality has improved, but not as much as a lot of people on other boads are reporting, IMO. The Passat and Accord EX's interiors are still two of the nicest in the midsize family sedan category.

7or8

I seriously looked at the Mazda6,.but I want a Nav system and it doesn't have one. You can get a Mazda3 with a NAV but not the Mazda6...what kinda biscuit head logic is that? Plus the Mazda6's interior doesn't do it for me...really don't like all that red, and the center console feels cheap to the touch IMO.

jumpper

As a previous I-4 Mazda6 owner, I have to say that I agree to what he said. To me, M6 with sport package looks more sporty than TSX with factory bodykit. I still miss that car everytime I see it on the road. But when I sit in my car, I'm glad that I made the trade back in April. Mazda6 is a great car, but I love my TSX more. They should put navigation system on the 6 already, dont know why they put it the 3 first.

Dan Martin

Why did you trade jumpper?

jumpper

There is nothing wrong with the Mazda6. It's a great car. But I love Honda/Acura products better. Plus, I want the voice activation/navigation system. I could get the navi accord, but i hate the look of it. So, I went with Mazda6 (thinking that i couldnt afford the TSX). When the TSX came out in April, I cant get my mind of it. One day, I just walked into the dealer and talked with the saleperson about trading my M6 for the navi TSX. He gave me a good deal that I can afford, so I traded it in. I lost about $1500 on my 3k miles and 3 months old M6 (I got it at invoice). Dont get me wrong, the Mazda6 is a great car for the money. If it comes with navigation system, I might just keep it. But then again, it's not HONDA! hahaha

Brad

It's really more marketing perception than anything else that technically distinquishes what's an entry level sports sedan, an entry level lux sedan, a sports family sedan, or a run-of-the-mill family sedan. It's a very blurry distinction. The smoked mirrors and wizardry of marketing play and prey upon peoples' perceptions.

There are entry-level versions of the TSX-kin, the Japanese-European Honda Accord, as there are entry level versions of BMWs and Mercedes--none of which are officially available in the North American market. Why? Marketing perceptions would wilt. Obscene profiteering relies on souped up marketing perceptions. Why is this an issue for North Americans, but not Europeans?

Certainly a Mazda6 is a competitor to the TSX, as are Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys, Audis, BMWs, Saabs, etc. Much to the chagrin of marketing, there's a mighty broad brush (or overlap) with which to paint the marketplace. Some people take issue with my statement because it challenges their perceived pecking order in the marketplace. Oh no, not a Camry.......

tblazer

I too am comparing the TSX with other vehicles such as the Mazda 6. While I test drove the TSX, I have only seen the Mazda in the lot, so can't speak to its performance but from what I've read it sounds very competent, if not perhaps better than the TSX.

I also feel that the Mazda styling is better on the exterior; but once you get inside, the quality of the Acura shines through. Better seat materials, better carpeting, better all around. Some of the plastics in the Mazda seem very cheap. Take the compartment on top of the dash for instance. I predict it will be a major source of rattles after a few years. I suspect that these same quality differences exist in many of the components you can't see.

The Mazda however appeared to have noticiably more room in the back. Also, the pass through from the trunk on the TSX seems significantly smaller.

Which would I buy? Not sure until I drive the Mazda but based on the apparent difference in quality and the close price between the two ($26k+ sticker on a loaded Mazda) the TSX is much ahead. The mpg is better on the TSX too, and with gas at over $2/gallon mpg is important again! Another negative for the Mazda if you are into safety - only 3 stars in a side impact (can't recall if this was front or rear).

One other observation - I had an RX-7 in the past. Granted this was many years ago, but while I loved the car, it was continuously giving me problems. They say the first impression is a lasting one...

CaliAtenza

I love my 6!! Seriously though, i fell in love with this car even before the TSX was out and i knew i just had to have it. I got it out the door, fully loaded...with bassically every single damn option for $26 grand. Then the TSX came out....still haven't driven or sat it one..but i can see the comparisions that people are making. But yeah...the auto is not that bad in the 6 (its plenty for me being a college student) and the car just looks hot, with only 1 problem so far (replaced fan controler)..plus its a chick magnet too!! The Acura may be slightly more better quality and nicer finish inside..but i never regret my decision everytime i slide into my heated leather seat and drive!!!

biker

If you want a "luxury" version of the M6 you can wait for the new Lincoln Zephyr. Same platform, probably close to the same ride - and you'll probably get Acura like luxuries. Only if you can put up with the name and look!!

ghost

getting a bit confused..i thought TL is suppose to be against G35/IS300/BMW-3 ........but why does everyoen says TSX Is against those cars???i understand TSX can be compared to the lower end of 3series.....but..G35?IS300?

Dan Martin

IS300 sure but G35 more comparable to the TL.

montyw

I originally was going to go with a TSX, but after seeing how poor the Trunk space was for my needs I started looking at options. I think the TSX is the best 4 Door Regular Sports Sedan for the money and after owning 2 other Acura's with zero problems I find it hard to look elseware. I needed a 4 door car with hatchback or wagon type rear access.

I started with the Lexus IS300 Sportcross for the extra room, but they are impossible to find new, and too expensive used - except the rare private sale ones (I just missed out on one 2 weeks ago in Oregon). Then Mazda anounced the Mazda6 Wagon and the Hatch-5 door.

I have been test driving various versions the last week and I do think the Mazda6 wagon is pretty damn nice. The manual transmission is way nicer for me than the automatic so I am going to have to wait a while to get one...I wish the TSX would come out with the Euro Accord wagon - they are forcing me to buy a Mazda!!!
Test drove the following:
TSX auto
TSX Manual
G35 Manual
IS300 Sportcross
Mazda 6s Wagon - Automatic
Mazda 6s Sedan - Manual

kiteboy

Also consider depreciation if you are planning to sell it within 5 yrs. There's another thread here that mentions after 5 years, Mazda is at 26% and Acura at 40%. That's thousands of dollars difference in TCO.

MarkPinTx

Off topic a bit, but for the money, TSX thrashes all of the above. Even not considering the money its evenly matched with 325 and IS300 (consensus is the hp low enough in those vehicles that the fwd/rwd isn't a big deal).

Since the 330 and G35 are in the mid to upper 30s and quite in excess of 200 hp, the TL is a better comparison. The 260/270 hp in the TL makes the fwd far more conspicuous and thus makes the 330 and G35 the critics choice. Of course the 330 is likely 40k++.

firedc5

at the end of the day.. chicks dig acura... and id rather say i have an acura then a mazda.

ilitig8

FWIW the 5 year cost of ownership of the Mazda S6 is about $1,200 less than the TSX M. Not a huge amount, possibly bolstered for the Mazda with better dealer discounts. Having driven both they are very similar on the road, the Mazda 6 cylinder engine is probably a little less refined than the TSX's but has more grunt. In the end for $20 bucks more a month I would drive the TSX...but I am a badge whore.

Vandy

PS if you look at the Mazda 6i then the cost of ownership is about $4k less, if you add in deeper discounts on this more available version the gap begins to look a little better, but in that configuration is less of a TSX fighter.