Not saying this is a great idea......but would you trade in your TSX for a Civic Hybrid for two years and turn around and upgrade to the new TSX in 2008/2009.

I know it sounds crazy, but just wanted to see your thoughts....

Sarcastic comments are welcome...this board has me laughing all the time....

 

why a hybrid? they're really expensive, and you need to own a hybrid for around 5 years before you start to notice a savings on gas vs. the added cost of purchasing the car...

 

No. For one, if you were interested in saving money, you certainly would never recover the premium cost of the hybrid in just a mere two years, even if gas went up to $4 or $5 a barrell. If you are concerned about the environment, I wouldn't really consider the TSX to be an ozone killer, so the loss just involved with any car sale/purchase wouldn't make sense.

If you think the Civic is nicer, then you are simply misguided and I can't help you.

 

I'd rather get the Accord hybrid instead.

 

That would kind of be a waste of money.... you'd spend more trading in cars left and right than you would if you just stuck with your first TSX.

Are you seriously thinking about doing this, or just want a rise out of the peeps?

 

A little of both.....I love reading the replies.... No seriously, I took my CR-V today for an oil change and I waited for over an hour so I decided to hang out in the showroom and I checked out the new Hybrid w/NAVI.

Well, I drove it for fun and it is a pretty nice car. To make a long story short, I can probably take the car home for $22,000 + TTL + BullS doc fee - invoice is 21619. If you figure holdback into the car, then the dealer cost is 21,565 w/destination (21619 - 3% + destination). That said, 22K is a decent deal if they were to accept.

Now, I must be "losing it" for even thinking it, but just thought I would entertain the idea....thats all.

 

What he said.

 

That's

 

I think it comes down to if you want to save money or save gas.

If you want to save money, purchase a used 2003 non-hybrid Civic for about $10-13,000, you still get +32 MPGs, and you save extra $$$ for the down payment for the +$32K 2009 TSX w/ 2.3L Turbo with sh-awd and Navi.

If you want to save gas, purchase an overpriced hybrid that will average about 38 MPGs combined driving with less power and average tax credits (if you purchase new only). All that gas you save will be used by that H3 Hummer pulling four ATVs on a trailer beside you at the pump.

I don’t understand why you have to spend $5-$7K extra just to save $5-10 bucks a tank. It would close to 8-10 years just to break even. It would come out cheaper overall just to keep the CR-V until your ready to purchase the TSX.

I rather save $ in my pocket buying a used car compared to saving extra gas for the world to consume and be broke.

 

That idea is pretty damn stupid...

 

I wouldn't do it.

 

Never. Just traded a 2006 Civic EX with Nav for our TSX. The Civic was cheap and rattly, got terrible gas milage, and looks a lot less safe than the TSX. Definitely not looking back.

 

Interesting. One of my cars is a 2006 Civic (Coupe). The idea had crossed my mind to trade it (which of course shocked people), but I will likely trade my other vehicle.

I suppose you lost some money, but was wondering, did the Civic hold up its value (still) relatively well (considering the largest depreciation is in first year)?

Thanks.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to reply to Chim-Chim.

Chim-Chim, I wouldn't do it. The car dealerships have to make money off your used cars, right? You'd lose a lot of money trading in 2 relatively new cars in short periods of time.

 

um why? you're wasting your money no matter what

 

I wish car makers would start putting hybrid and electric motors in more cars. Everyone keeps talking about how the TSX should have more power. However, to get more power, you need to burn more gas. It drives me nuts every time I see a new model of anything come out with more power and lower gas mileage.

I hope everyone understands that we're running out of oil. It is very likely that the world will hit peak oil production in the next 5 years. After that, the price of oil will sky rocket as demand far exceeds supply. It will become prohibitely expensive to drive a gasoline powered car.

The world's oil demand continues to increase, and we're at the point where we'll run out of useful oil in the next 40 years. The government, energy companies, and automakers need to start investing some serious money into alternative technologies because if we don't start drastically decreasing our oil demand, we're going to be in big big trouble in not too long.

Hybrids still run on gas, but they get better gas mileage than other cars. If everyone drove a hybrid, it would cut US oil demand by probably 20%. Considering we use more oil than any other country by a pretty large margin, that would be a huge decrease in global oil demand, which would buy us more time until we can come up with alternative technologies. That's the true value of a hybrid car. Forget the environment. Forget cost savings in gas. The value of a hybrid is to buy time for scientists and engineers to come up with new technologies.

I only wish they stopped making hybrid cars so freaking ugly. If they made the TSX in a hybrid (which actually saved on gas), I would have bought it, even if it cost 5 grand more and had 60 less horsepower. I would have bought an Accord Hybrid, except it hardly gets any better gas mileage than a regular 4-cylinder Accord, so what's the point? All the ones that get great mileage look ugly.

 

not everyone is as rich and as stupid as you are, Sir

 

Appreciate your thorough response.... As far as oil capacity, we have a ton and we just found a new source (Gulf of Mexico...I think) that will produce an equivalent of 50% of our current oil reserve. We will be fine with OIL for a LONG time.... Don't let the left wing crazies scare you.

As I mentioned in my orginal post, I was toying with the idea and I decided against the Hybrid... Also, I found out that you cannot drive a Hybrid like a gasoline car - if you do the gas mileage decreases by approx 30%. Basically, you have to let it coast all the time...that sucks.

 

I love it....love the rude comments. Nice! I love this board...

 

I really think the whole thing about running out of oil in 50 years is pretty BS, but I do think the environment will have to suffer exponentially more in order for us to tap into what's left.

 

Yeah...agree somewhat...but don't let those "Lawyer" run enviromental organizations get the best of you. They see dollars signs in environment programs so they spend millions of dollars each year to get you and I to think that there is a warming trend (i.e. Global Warming), so that you and I give them more money...

FACT: Over last 100 years, the adjusted temperature increase is only .000000789 degrees. This is the earth's normal process of replenishment.

Check out the book "State of Fear" - great read.

ChimChim

 

Yeah I know....I was off my rocker today.....no worries - NO civic for me....what the hell was I thinking to give up my sex ride (TSX) for dating a fat chick (Civic)....

thanks...

 

Nice...did you get the NAVI model - TSX?

 

Dealers will <3 you

 

Absolutely, that's one thing we really liked about the Civic and other makes nav weren't cutting it. Black on Black with nav, and completely in love with TSX.

On the trade it was bad but not ridiculous, we traded for $18k with 2200 miles. Also they knocked $1500 off the TSX price and we got a BRAND new one all wrapped up in plastic when we first saw it and it had only 6 miles on the clock.

 

definitely not a decision that will help your wallet/bank account.

I wouldn't do it.....since your intent is to wait 2 years only.

 

I'm not trying to be all left-wing liberal alarmist here.

I don't judge people for not driving hybrids. Hell... I don't drive a hybrid, and I've passed on cars that get much better mileage so that I can drive a TSX, so I'm somewhat of a hypocrit in that regard. I judge automakers and the US government for not investing money into alternative technologies. I applaud BMW for at least taking a chance with their new (albeit small and expensive) lineup of hydrogen powered cars.

Being completely out of oil is not the issue. The issue is when demand starts to exceed supply. It's simple economics that oil prices will start to rise dramatically. The other problem is that most of all the oil that's left on earth is in the middle east, which causes somewhat of a problem for us with our strained relationship to all the countries there. That find in the Gulf only covers something like 20% of the United States oil demand. It's not going to be enough to keep us going.

That's why I'm just dying to read the news about the government investing billions of dollar into wind, solar, and/or hydrogen power research instead of into finding more oil.

The environment is a huge issue too, but since I'm pretty convinced (and it has nothing to do with liberals and everything to do with reading scientific articles about it) that whether we like it or not, our oil use is going to decrease as the price gets more and more expensive.

I tell you... if I wasn't nearly $40,000 in college loan debt, I'd give up my high paying job and go back to school to become an engineer of some sort, so that I could help develop the new technologies. That's how strongly I feel about this.

 

Sorry for double post:

The CO2 levels in the atmosphere tell an entirely different story. Right now, the atmosphere has a much higher CO2 level than it has in the last some-odd million years. It's also a fact that the something like (don't have the exact stat) 7 of the 10 hottest years in recorded history have occured in the last 10 years.

Another interesting thing about global temperature change is the way that it's distributed. A 1 degree global temperatur increase means that the temperature stayed roughly the same around the equator and it increased by like 8 degrees at the poles (again, not quite 100% correct on the exact figure but the idea is that a small global temp change causes a fairly large change at the poles).

The antarctic shelf has melted faster than expected. The glaciers on Greenland have melted faster than expected. Storms have gotten much more severe recently, and there's no evidence that it's going to get better.

However, don't confuse me with an environmentalist. What the global warning people conveniently forget is that the fossil fuel age is drawing to a close, so whatever damage we're doing now probably won't last long enough to cause the huge cataclysmic disaster that some are predicting.

 

totally agreed, that book is an amazing read...

ever stop to think that maybe the reason for having hotter days being recorded isn't because of global warming and could be caused by something else? we're recording temperatures in our cities... our cities are growing, more people living close together using a/c in the summer in their homes and in their cars and at work etc... it makes sense that cities are getting warmer because there's more people living in them... it doesn't mean that this is drastically changing the temperature of the earth...

it's a big political game just like anything... people that believe in global warming make a big stink about it, get some scientists to back them and then ask for millions of dollars in funding so they can spend it on 'research' or wahtever they want, while pocketing some of it for themselves of course...
if you look back you'll see that temperatures fluctuate over years, warmer and colder etc... just because we're on a warm streak now doesn't mean it's because of the levels of gas in the atmosphere etc...

it's just weird that these global warming people are unable to even contemplate the fact that there might be another reason for the warming, that their explanation is the ONLY plausable one.

 

Well Said - agreed. Oh yeah...as far as weird.....maybe not.....they just follow the dollar signs. BTW, I see you are from Canada - glad to see Canadians feeling this way. I am orginally from Montreal but lived in the states since age 3....

JP

 

Did you know that 75% of US purchases of OIL every year comes from South America and Canada. - Thats a FACT. So, why then do we see gas prices rise when there is turmoil in the middle east?? Why....you ask....its All Political....

 

gas is less than $4 a barrel?!!!! holy cow! i'm going out to stockpile now!

 

i'm just curious, because i'm always interested in information.....where are these facts?

 

So wait... let me get this straight --- The point of getting a hybrid is this...

...but you...

Yet...



Hmmm... so we should support an interim technology that costs more now (what's the premium of buying a hybrid car over a "regular" model?) and potentially in the future (what's the projected cost of replacing a hybrid battery?) that could have even more consequential effects down the road (where do we dispose of a hybrid battery?)?

 

if you held onto it for 3-4 years, financially, it'd probably be a decent decision. i think there's much to be said about the intangible benefits of a hybrid, and if more people recognized that, more would be on the road, and oil consumption would drop, even if only slightly, which i think would be a small step towards decreasing our dependence on it.

i wouldn't trade in the TSX for ANY car for a two year period and plan on buying another TSX after that. That would be stupid any way you cut it.

 

I can't read or write. Yep, slight typo there. Insert gallon for barrell.

And hybrids aren't the answer. Hydrogen, or some other fuel supply that doesn't require gas is the true way to cut dependency. But then you bring issues of creation into play - such as the energy requried to create the hydrogen fuel and it just gets all murky.

 

ya you're right it really is all about the dollar signs... just like everything it seems these days...

haha i'm definitely not with the majority of Canadians in most of my views on things simply because i have views, alot of canadians have no opinion on alot of things, kinda frustrating... or adopt other peoples opinions without adequatley researching the topic...

 

if you were so concerned with gas mileage and prolonging us running out of oil, you would have purchased a more fuel efficient car, even if it wasn't a hybrid. there are diesel options out there that far exceed the gas mileage we get. there are smaller cars that are more efficient. that being said, i think the TSX is a good, reasonable car, with excellent gas mileage.

 

eff hybrids..K24 all the way

 

That's why I mentioned in a later post, that I'm sort of a hypocrite in regards to this issue. You're 100% correct. I could have purchased a much more fuel efficient car, but I didn't because I wanted a TSX. I don't blame people for the cars they're driving now. Both my parents own SUVs, and I don't lecture them about how much gas they're wasting. A huge part of my decision to purchase the TSX is that I just got out of school, I'm young, I make a huge salary for a single guy, and just this once, I wanted to get the car I really want before I have family and other obligations I have to think about. (Yes, I realize that it's sort of sad that my dream car is a TSX, but what can I say...).

I do think that we should be investing money in a more costly alternative right now. I don't know what that alternative can be. Maybe hydrogen, maybe electric. I don't know. All I know is that the only way to bring technology costs down is to actually make the products and improve on them. 10 years ago, a flat panel TV would cost a fortune. Now, you can get a 46" flatscreen for about 2 grand. The idea is that development of these technologies needs to start now so that by the time rising oil prices are a huge issue, we've made enough advances in the newer technology that the price will be much more affordable than it is today.

I'm not saying that all automakers should stop making gas cars and just start putting out hydrogen cars or something else. I'm saying that I want to hear that a ton of money is going into research and development. If new technologies don't start popping up soon, we all are going to experience dramatic lifestyle changes during our lifetime... and I don't know about the rest of you, but I really like the comfortable lifestyle that modern technology allows us. I don't want all of it to go away because we can't create enough energy to power our homes and/or cars.

 

no one argues that the earth will not replenish itself, it just won't be able to sustain humans.