b0h

I have a couple of questions to anyone who understand and has the time to reply... thanks.....

This stuff has been on my mind for quite a while:

1) I dont really understand this whole camber thing,...
I noticed that eibachs are cheap........ are there actually springs arond that lower about 1-2" , dont cost as much as the mugen's and don't require cambers? What about comptecs? how much do they cost?

2)Why do we need cambers anyways?

3)What is this 'rubbing' thing that everyone's talking about?

4)What happens if you need a camber but don't get one? ... will it damage the car?

Thanks ahead of hand.

DEVO

Camber is the angle of the wheel with respect to a vertical line.

So if the following symbols were the right side wheels:

| no camber
/ positive camber
\ negative camber

Camber is another variable in setting up your suspension. In racing some cars are setup with a lot of camber to handle going over a curb or a high speed turn. So camber is used mainly to aid in turning because I can't think of a reason why you would want your tire other than perfectly flat on a straight road.

click here for more details


So to answer your questions:

1. don't know about price
2. see above.
3. well if you have too much camber the wheel will rub against the wheel well.
4. hmmmmmm not a question. read what camber is.... all cars have it.

b0h

thanks for the reply

so i've been reading how some ppl need a camber kit after they install eibach pro kits....

if they don't buy a camber kit to fix the alignment, will it damage the car in any way??

thanks
b0h

DEVO

i don't know what a camber kit is... if it is a way for you to adjust camber on your wheels without having to go to a shop then that is not something you need to buy... you can have the shop adjust your camber as part of a wheel alignment.

if a camber kit is something that is needed in order for the wheels to align correctly while getting an alignment. then you need this piece. I don't think this is the case unless you are really changing the camber beyond what the car was designed to handle.

fdl

You've got your cambers mixed up.

/ = negative
\ = positive
| = 0


BTW...anyone know what the camber is on the stock TSX?

ClutchPerformer

Actually, it depends on whether you're looking at the front or the back of the car. He never said which.

fdl

hehe, thats true. Actually its more..which side..left or right. So lets do it this way...


/---\ - negative camber

|---| - 0 camber

\---/ - positive camber.


I'd really like to know how much negative camber the TSX comes with out of the box. I am guessing not that much so putting stiffer springs on probably wont require any camber adjustment. Unless they are extremely stiff.

DEVO

I said right side tire.... and the article in my link describes it as such.

fdl

You're right. I missed that.

junk5681

Stock suspension specs:

Caster angle: 3 degrees 13' +/- 45'

Camber angle: F = 0 degree 00' +/- 45'
R = -1 degree 00' +/- 30'

Front toe-in: 0 +/- 2mm (0 +/- 1/16 in.)

Rear toe-in: 2 +/- 2mm (1/16 +/- 1/16 in.)

Turning angle: Inward = 35 degrees 15' +/- 2 degrees
Outward = 29 degrees 38' (reference)

I don't think the stiffness of the spring makes any difference in regards to camber. Only the amount of drop. Looking at your car from the front, imagine that this is the driver's side front wheel and suspension arms:

=||

A shorter spring (ie eibach) rotates this entire assembly counter-clockwise a degree or two, lowering the car and causing the tire to roll on its inside edge (negative camber). A camber kit lengthens the upper suspension arm (the upper line of the equals sign above) so that the wheel remains vertical.

boH, think hard before you lower your car. It opens up a big can of worms:
1. camber and tire wear problems
2. alignment problems
3. reduced ride quality
4. void suspension warranty
5. ground clearance problems (scrape your bumper on the ground)
6. wheelwell clearance problems (tire rubs against fender)
7. ruin your shocks

fdl

Thanks for the info junk.

The reason I related camber to spring stiffness was in the decrease in body-roll camber changes while turning. With stiffer springs you wouldn't require as much negative camber.

b0h

thanks for all of the info junk

i understand the complications, but it's just so damn tempting to lower my car~

yeah if it didnt have all of those misalignment problems I guess i would have given it a shot....

i guess that ends that lowering idea of mine....

junk5681

Yeah I never thought of that. I think that you generally always want very little camber on the front wheels of a front wheel drive car in order to maximize the contact patch for good acceleration grip. On the tsx, front camber can be fixed without a camber kit.

btw my mechanic told me that tire wear problems with camber are made worse if you plus size the wheels, so if your lowered on 19s, rotate often.

vwong

Would you mind explaining how this can be done? I don't have my service manual in front of me now. But I'll check when I get home tonight.

fdl

Yup...I was watching the CART race on the weekend and was noticing how there seemed to be alot of neg camber on the front wheels but none on the rears of those rwd cars.

junk5681

I'm no expert, but I don't think this is a do it yourself. Front camber can be fixed with a combination of caster and toe-in, but I think it requires some pretty specialized alignment equipment.

dnl2ba

Right side or not, you can still look at it from the front or back, no?

Thanks for the info, though.

DEVO

hehe.... no!!! well i guess... but nobody does.