greendestiny

Okay, don't tell me to search this and that. I've read it all. Rotors don't warp, rotors do warp. Vibration caused by bad bedding process, vibration caused by brake deposits.

Well, it just so happens I disagree with many of those statements since other people's car's like my girl's Mini Cooper with 35k miles have no vibe issues, and my moms camry didn't get vibe issue till 75k miles. And i'm positive when they got their cars new, they sure didn't go "BED" their brakes in.


on my 05 tsx, the stock pads, disc developed vibration at 22k miles. I changed the hawk pads and seem to solve hte problem until 30k miles it came back. I changed the OEM rotors to rotora's front cross-drilled but those lasted like 5k before it came back. At 50k miles, i finally decided to change it to Brembo OEM blanks with new autozone gold ceramic pads. Worked excellent until 7k miles later now...the steering wheel vibration is back again.

again, all these vibration occur when braking and around 50-75mph.
i don't get what the hells wrong with my tsx. other than that, my tsx has no mechanical problems for me to complain about. but going through 3 sets of rotors and pads, from OEM to Rotora to brembo blanks in 66k miles is not normal. Plus, i don't even drive my car hard at all.

immediately after these rotor changes, the problems are fixed but eventually come back.

HI OFECR

Maybe its the way you drive ? I had some vib with the stock crap rotors , changed them out with R1consepts cross/slot rotors and axis pads and it never came back ive got like 40k on them.


Has your car ever been hit in the front ?

JimHolloman

This sounds like a tough one. Jack up each front wheel separately and see if the vibration can be isolated to one wheel or the other. Be careful and go easy with both throttle and brake. Use a good, stable, jack.

Since the problem keeps repeating regardless of rotors and brake pads, I would have to suspect something other than rotors and brake pads.

Check all front suspension components; bushings, ball joints, shocks, and CV joints. Then check for play in the wheel hubs -- is a wheel bearing too loose? Do you have a wheel bearing that is rough? I have seen bad wheel bearings that would reveal their defect only under moderate to heavy braking. In one case, both wheel bearings seemed to be fine, but changing both of them eliminated the vibration. I suspect that one, or more, of the balls was out of round. It was probably just one wheel bearing, but both were changed since the problem had been so persistent.

Then if you don't have it resolved, have a good front-end shop check the car.

Why does the problem disappear when you put on new rotors and pads? I suspect that the defect needs a catalyst to show itself in the form of some minor vibration that is produced by used pads and rotors; whereas, new pads and rotors do not produce sufficient vibration to trigger the real vibration. A good system will readily absorb the minor vibration caused by braking, whereas one with a defect will amplify the vibration. I hope that makes sense. I am not doing a good job of describing it. It is sort of like having a car, with shocks that are shot, on a perfectly smooth road. It would not be readily apparent that the car needed new shocks.

greendestiny

i see what you mean.

and no, the car is perfect, never had any collision at all in the front. it is not modified, the only thing i have is a rear sway bar but thats about it.

JimHolloman

One more point. If a wheel bearing is changed, then the race ought to be changed as well. In other words, buy a wheel bearing/race combo for each side.

poltergeist

????Front wheel bearings (in fact rears too) are complete sealed units. There are no seperate races to replace.

As for the OP, I'd be willing to bet it's driving style.

FZ427

Same problem here. I got power slot rotors with hawk pads and vibration still on that speed that you mention. Has to be something else.

JimHolloman

It is good to know that the front wheel bearings are sealed units. Not only a better design, but no more need to pack the front wheel bearings with grease.

Could you expand on "driving style". Do you suspect that he is too hard on his brakes? Vibration can only be caused when something is not running true, is not smooth, is not balanced, is not round, etc. In other words, there has to be a physical component -- and not just "driving style".

odannyboi

i got a little steering vibration when I brake at highway speeds... its annoying

poltergeist

Most brake shimmy that is felt through the steering wheel is caused by thickness variation in the front rotors. If you get the pad/rotors hot and then clamp them hard at a stop, at the very least you transfer pad material to the rotor, or if hot enough you can deform the rotor surface, either way causing thickness variation in the rotor around it's circumferance.

The softer OEM pads are probably more likely to transfer friction material to the rotors, while the harder "Auto Zone" pads are more likely to overheat/deform the rotors.

Just about every customer I see claims "I don't drive my car hard" then I look at their car to see tires worn out of the outside edges and blue, hotspotted front rotors.

greendestiny

what everybody is saying here is the same thing i'm feeling. i knew i wasn't alone in this problem.

here's what i noticed to with you guys:

the problem occurs when:

1. the brakes are warmed up...after 5-10 mins of city driving.
2. generally above 40mph to feel it.
3. the shaking is most felt on high way speeds but as speeds reduced to below 40mph, it subsides (meaning the shaking stops)

JimHolloman

greendestiny, if I read you correctly, by 51K miles, your front brake pads that had been changed twice. How much wear did the the first two sets of pads show? IOW, how much material remained?

I think you have to consider poltergeist's hypotheses that you are simply being too hard on the brakes -- at least until you find some other cause. You might check to ensure that your rear brakes are functioning so that the front brakes are not doing all the braking. How much wear does the rear pads show?

I live in the mountains and at 44,000 miles, my OEM brakes were as smooth as silk (at all speeds) and the pads were less than half worn. I was anticipating not having to change the pads until 90k miles.

If it was my car, I would first check for any other cause for the vibration. I would then replace the rotors and pads. I would use OEM pads. I would then go VERY easy on the brakes for the first 300 miles and then easy on them for the next 700 miles -- in other words, drive like a grandma. It is very important to let new pads/rotors to "brake in".

If you decide to "bed" the bakes, then make sure you know what you are doing -- or else you will do more damage than good. I did not "bed" the brakes on the TSX. However, I had a new Odyssey with brakes that squealed. The dealer offered to replace the pads with pads that were softer, but I decided to "bad" the brakes -- and it eliminated the squeal.

JimHolloman

"bad" the brakes ==> "bed" the brakes

NDLunchbox

Couldn't it be an out of round wheel? I had a similar problem, turns out I badly bent a rim.

JimHolloman

A bent wheel, or rim, would be expected to cause vibration without regard to use of the brakes -- and to increase as speed increases. And, at over 50k miles, it would be expected that he has rotated his tires, and wheels, at least a couple of times. And, by rotation, I mean he ought to have at least switched front to rear a couple of times. With a bent wheel, the vibration would follow the placement.

csmeance

Have you looked at the pads themselves and seen anything wrong, like uneven pad wear, cuts in the pad? Have you checked your brake fluid at all? I'm thinking that one of capilers are defective and are sticking, causing the pad to excessively heat up and deposit material causing an uneven rotor.

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

How do you torque your lug nuts? Do you use a torque wrench to tighten them? I know mounting a wheel on too tight can also cause the rotor to warp. I don't like how some people use a impact gun to put their wheels on.

greendestiny

yes my tires are rotated roughly every 5-10k miles at reputable places like america's tire.

and the vibrations only occur when braking, and get more pronounced when braking at higher speeds.

no i have never crashed my car, hit a curb, ran over a tree, etc. what i'm thinking now is somebody is probably right. could be a stuck caliper, piston or bad brake fluid??

i don't know.

but the shaking is getting worse each and every day until i replace my rotors. that will probably fix the problem for 10k miles before it all repeats again.

the sets of pads i've tried:
-oem stock
-hawk hps pads
-autozone gold (ceramic) (currently)

the rotors i've tried:
-oem rotors
-rotora cross-drilled/slotted (this one had vibration ONLY between 35-65mph)
-brembo's oem (after replacing the rotors, this one had no vibration at any speeds until 10k miles later)

greendestiny

Just got my car back from the shop. They did a full on inspection and here are the results:

-no problems with the hub, caliper, caliper pistons.

the only problem are:

-front rotors are warped (out of spec) (they used a tool to measure)
-front pads have long life but are probably destrying the rotors.
-the wheels were probably not torqued properly which could have caused the center of the rotors to grab properly. (the center of the rotors were more darker than the most inner and outer diameter)

so there's the verdict. they told i'm using crappy autozone gold ceramic pads with good rotors and thats not a good combination.

so i'm back to shopping for rotors/pads again.

they recommend me to go akimbono.

i'm about to get a set of those for the front and rear and also order summit racing cross-drilled/slotted rotors

PACman

Have you contacted our forum vendors to see if they can get you a deal on after market rotors/pads?

greendestiny

yes i've contacted mrheeltoe automtoive.

thinking about racingbrake UP and HP front rears and set of hawk hps or hawk ceramics.

this is gonna run me close to five franklins and if the problem comes back again, i'm done with my tsx, and selling it next year.

that would make it 4 sets of rotors/pads in less than 100k miles on 50/50 fwy/city miles. that doesn't make any sense to me.

LukeaTron

Just out of curiosity, do you have an AT or MT? It always feels funny to me how much I need to use when I drive an AT car. The brakes on my cars tend to last a ridiculously long time even though I live in an area with tons of crazy steep hills and wild terrain that requires frequent and heavy application of the brakes. I suspect the long gradual stops build up a lot more heat but at least with an MT you aren't fighting the cars desire to constantly accelerate while you're trying to stop.

Engine braking FTW!

greendestiny

i have AT

Tsx536

I've had Racing Brake rotors for about 30K miles on my 04 AT. That along with Hawk pads and I've had no warping. I get on the brakes hard sometimes too, so I've been happy with how well they have held up.

odannyboi

your car was built on a friday... simple as that

litesout

Okay, this is going to sound like a dumb question, but did they inspect the front and rear calipers? Seems odd to me that you've had 3 sets of front rotors warp. I've never had a rotor warp on any vehicle I've ever owned. Seems to me that the rear brakes aren't contributing as much as they should and your fronts are picking up the slack and getting destroyed as a result.

greendestiny

ok well the shop wanted to charge me nearly $400 to replace the front and rear brakes with Akebono's and resurface my brembo rotors. They said they would stand by and GUARANTEE me that i would not have any more problems.

this tells me that they probably examined my front rotors and determined that the front pads are causing the problem. so i just went to Kragen auto parts and going to pick up front and rear akebono's proact ceramic myself and have another shop put 'em on. At the same time, i'm gonna ask that other shop to resurface my rotor. It should be cheaper than the first shop.

all in all, we'll see what happens but the long run is after 10-15k miles.

JimHolloman

greendestiny,

I find you to be fantastic!

You have already spent a ton of money, and time, on the problem with your brakes. You have made it very clear that this is no ordinary problem.

Yet, when someone offers you a "GUARANTEE" that you will have no more problems -- and no more vibration, you elect to once again to experiment and follow the "do-it-yourself" route in the effort to save $100-$200.

Let me assure you that not all repair shops, and all automotive service shops, are the same. And, that the good ones are in the minority. I would rather pay someone that knows what they are doing, and will stand behind their work, a $1,000 than someone that does not know what they are doing, and will not stand behind their work, $500.

For a bit of unsolicited advice (or was it solicited?) , you ought to write up a guarantee, take it back to the first shop, have the manager (or better, the owner) sign it, and then pay them $400 to "fix" your brakes and to GUARANTEE that you will have no more vibration caused by the brakes for the life of the brakes (40k-50k-60k miles - you specify). If they will not sign a written guarantee, then the guarantee is useless -- and you are basically back where you started.

1) How many times have the rear pads being changed? I will presume never -- and that could be fine.

2) How much wear does the rear pads show? A shop can measure the current thickness if you don't know how to do it.

3) Has all the front suspension components being thoroughly checked.

4) How far do you live from an Acura dealership? Have you talked with the Service Adviser, or Department Manager about the problem?

There is nothing wrong with your brakes that can't be fixed. You need to focus on finding the right person, or the right shop (and the Acura dealership is a good candidate since they work on a lot of brakes just like yours) to fix your brakes and stop wasting time, and money, with experimentation; unless, of course, you enjoy doing that.

JimHolloman

Questions, revised:

1) How many times have the rear pads being changed? I will presume never -- and that could be fine.

2) How much wear does the rear pads show? A shop can measure the current thickness if you don't know how to do it.

3) Has all the front suspension components being thoroughly checked; including the CV Joints?

4) Which side is causing the vibration? Which side is causing most of the vibration?

5) Does weight have to be on the front tires for the vibration to occur?

6) Are you sure that it is not the rear that is causing the vibration?

7) How far do you live from an Acura dealership? Have you talked with the Service Adviser, or Department Manager about the problem?

P.S. This is the last contribution I will make to this thread. I am beginning to fell a little "sick and tired".

greendestiny

Wow Jim Holloman, i thank you for your response. Lets see... this is my vehicle history:

-No crashes, no fender benders, no off-roading, no-racing. just commute and highway in southern california.

0 to 30,000 miles -- OEM rotors + OEM pads (steering vibration)
30,000 - 45,000 miles --- front pads hawk hps + oem rotor front + oem rear rotor + rear pads (autozone gold) stock rotors (steering vibration)
46,000- 50,000 miles --- replaced hawk hps pads cuz squeeks and dusts with autozone gold and replaced with Rotora cross-drilled in the front. rears pads still fine.
so now the combination is: Rotora C/D + Autozone Gold ceramic(new) + OEM rears/Autozone Gold

55,000 miles --- steering wheel vibration back...replaced front rotors to Brembo OEM because the Rotoras seem to develop vibration from day1. 40-60mph. Did not replace autozone pads in the front or the rear this time.

60,000 miles --- steering wheel vibration back again with Brembo OEM in the front / autozone gold and acura OEM rear rotor+ autozone gold in the rear.


so the only combination that i wish i could have tried was to put the Hawk HPS back with the Rotoras. Because the new Rotoras in the front got to play with the new Autozone Gold but the Autozone's were probably too hard of a pad and thats why i felt some vibration in the steering wheel from 40-60mph.

immediately when i changed the rotoras to brembo oem, i left the autozone gold ceramics there. and now at 66,000 miles, the autozone gold ceramics is probably what is warping my brembo oem.

so all in all, the front rotors has been replaced twice from OEM to Rotoras to Brembo OEMs while the rears are still the factory OEM acuras.


Right now, the 2nd shop has just called me they are workign on my brakes.

I just gave them my parts: Akebono ACT front and rear pads. They said they will resurface the front rotors but they said the rear rotors they can't do it because it is too low of specification. (this is good news to hear) because the 1st shop who examined my car and wanted an arm and leg also did measure my rear stock oem rotors and said they were getting worn down.

greendestiny

1) How many times have the rear pads being changed? I will presume never -- and that could be fine.

the rear pads have been changed ONCE at 33,000 miles from OEM acura to autozone gold. It is now 66,000 miles and the pads are now gone. The shop is currently at this minute replacing it with my part, Akebono ACT ceramic.

2) How much wear does the rear pads show? A shop can measure the current thickness if you don't know how to do it.

the current autozone gold on the rears are GONE.

3) Has all the front suspension components being thoroughly checked; including the CV Joints?
i believe so, otherwise the first shop and the shop now would've said something and try to sell me something either i do need or don't. i even told the first shop i WISH you can find something wrong with my steering linkage, rotor caliper, or axle instead of telling me its the rotor or pad because i frickin' replaced it 2 TIMES already in less than 60k miles!

4) Which side is causing the vibration? Which side is causing most of the vibration?
i'm not sure. i don't feel pedal vibration. i only feel stinkin' steering wheel vibration.


5) Does weight have to be on the front tires for the vibration to occur?
no, the vibration occurs from 40mph - 100mph. anything below 40mph, vibration in the steering wheel stops. and the vibration only occurs after the brakes are warmed up. on a cold start morning, it won't happen.

6) Are you sure that it is not the rear that is causing the vibration?
no, i'm not sure. but how can the rear rotors vibrate my steering wheel?


7) How far do you live from an Acura dealership? Have you talked with the Service Adviser, or Department Manager about the problem?
5 miles. nope, because judging from what others said, the stealerships are probably going to charge me $1000 to repair it with a resurface and put on their crappy OEM pads... whereas with THAT kind of money, I can buy my own brand name rotors and pads..

greendestiny

Also, what i want to know is what BMW is using for my girlfriend's Mini cooper.

her cars got 34,000 miles and her brake system is smooth and solid liike cream butter and it's never been serviced. I seriously want to know what bmw uses for their rotor and pad brand.

Mokos23

it's never had any kind of service? wow, and i thought bmw reliability sucked.

TSX Cman

I have similar issues with my 04 MT. vibrates around 80km braking. had acura 'check' what the problem was, where they went on to give me a full alignment and a hefty bill. which I argued and got out of since I did not authorize it, and it did not help.

it happens with both my winter rubber/stock rims, aswell as my ronjon 19" inspyres/Falken st115. new pads dont work, had rotors checked. not sure what to do.

Acura's explanation is that some cars come with a natural vibration, and pull to the right (didnt mention that earlier, very light pull to the right at same time of problem). I havent checked my milage in a while. so can only say that it started last summer.

Split797

Hey greendestiny... I only have about 15K on my 08 and I get bad vibration on the streering wheel as well, and you can heard it too when breaking. I'll be honest it has gotten scary to be driving beyond 75 and having to break in Los Angeles Traffic. I have found myself reaching for the E brake. My girl has even told me that I need to get this fxied fast before I get hurt or hurt someone. So I'm going to try some slotted rotors and hawk pads and hopefully this will help and not continue, like it has for you. Wish you the best man!

nj2pa2nc

My 06 tsx had 45,000 miles on it when the rotors slightly warped. They were adjusted by the dealer free and it still has the original brake pads on it. It now has almost 57,000 miles. My brake system is smooth and solid also with more miles than her bmw.

240sx acura tech

sounds like the brake switch needs to be adjusted and a bad vsa control unit. the valves leak causing the brakes applied at time when not needed. the 07 TL-s has the same problem

greendestiny

Well this is just for my reference. The shop has just resurfaced my 9000 mile old Brembo Blanks in the front and put on my new Akebono ProACT all-around. But teh stock oem acura rotors in the rear is still on there and needs to be replaced. I have just ordered brembo blanks for the rear from tirerack and going to put it on next week.

The braking is now butter-smooth and no more vibration! My car is now at 64,500 miles. the setup will be by next week:
-new Akebono ProACT pads all-around
-resurfaced 9k mile old Brembo blank front
-brand new brembo blank rear


So we'll see how long this combination lasts in terms of mileage/time before I come back and post here again.

I don't mind replacing rotors every 40-60k miles. But every 10k miles is just not acceptable to me.

503TSX

geez... good to know i'm not the only one with a problem...

I too had the same issues. I have come to the conclusion that changing front rotors at 10k is purely unacceptable.

I just changed my Brakes, rear pads hit the squeak bar, so replaced pads, resurfaced rotor. Replaced the front rotors, warped, and changed the pads, even though they were at 50% at 40k miles. I find it odd that acura can just 'adjust' the brakes.... and it goes away? there aren't many 'adjustments' to be made the front brakes, unless there is a problem with the caliper and how it sits... or maybe the slide frame ... hmm... i know the recommended replacement does not require any knd of removal of the slide frame for the brakes...

Any acura techs out there know what the deal is?

JimHolloman

> I have come to the conclusion that changing front rotors at 10k is
> purely unacceptable... Replaced the front rotors, warped, and
> changed the pads, even though they were at 50% at 40k miles.

Are you saving that you have put four sets of front rotors on your car (40k/10k = 4). If so, then talk with the Service Manager at an Acura dealership. There is something very wrong with either your car -- or the way your drive it. Perhaps the VSA Control Unit is applying brakes when it ought not. Has your gas mileage been low? In any case, Acura ought to give you some free assistance if your car required 4 sets of rotors in 40k miles -- that is, unless the car has been abused (like, for example, some kind of racing -- or riding the brakes -- or repeatedly heavy braking at highway speeds).