V8 for the RL???

also touch screen for the navi... the TL and TSX interface it so much nicer than the others...

 

Hmmmm...Very skeptical about that RSX part.

 

I dunno about that. AWD I can see, though. However, I don't really want a turbo unless there's a NA option too. I'd rather have a 6 cyl than a turbo 4.

 

Well, you might want to wait to pass judgement until you drive one when it comes out.

Forced induction cars produce massive torque (comparatively speaking) very low in the RPM range.

I wish I had a RDX dyno handy, but the VW 2.0T motors produce over 200 lb-ft of torque even below 2000 RPM. This is 20% more than the peak torque of the TSX and probably 30-40% more than it produces at the same RPM. It takes a big V6 to generate the same torque at those RPM.

A turbo with proper gearing and matching the drive-train with the car gives I-4 driving character and economy most of the time, and V6 performance when you need it.

 

Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I don't want the mpg that the RDX gets. The TSX is lighter I assume, so maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but I just don't want 17mpg or something because that would be horrendous.

Are turbos any more expensive to fix than a NA engine? I honestly don't know much about turbos, but have heard they're not as reliable as NA engines, and more expensive to work on.

 

yes they are more expensive to fix, theres alot more tubing etc that goes along with the system

 

Turbos are slightly more time consuming to mod, cause you can really mess stuff up if you dont know what youre doing...but anyone that says they would rather have a heavy V6 opposed to a turbo 4? Have you ever seen the numbers on the Evos and STIs? both still maintain 25-28 mpg range on highway driving and massive amounts of torque. If they make a decent turbo with the 4 banger, Im down, cause you can mod the hell out of the intercooler and turbos to your hearts content. With NA, you have less options but much easier bolt ons.

Im not skeptical about the RSX comeback, Acura said that all along that it was rebading as a TSX coupe. Now if its AWD and turbo is the question.

 

Yes, it's a more complex system. There is stuff that can break that you don't have in an NA engine.

The engine itself really isn't any different, although typically it would have a lower compression ratio than what you see in the TSX and usually a large capacity cooling system. Effectively, force induction raises the apparent displacement of the engine. If you have a 2.0L turbo engine with boost of 0.5 bar (very conservative, a hair over 7 psi), then it can burn as much gas (and crank out as much power!) on full boost as a 3.0L engine, so the cooling system needs to be sized larger.

However, unless you're accelerating, driving uphill, or driving fast (70+ mph), a turbo isn't generating any boost anyway and the engine pulls a vacuum just like any other NA car.

I think the reliability issues have been largely dealt with, but a turbo won't tolerate poor maintenance, especially low quality oil or excessive oil change intervals. The exhaust side of a turbo gets hot, and a turbo spins very fast when on boost (100,000+ RPM), usually floating on an oil bearing, so you need good oil. Turbo's are always water-cooled now, so there isn't a problem with this heat when driving.

Given Honda's reputation for reliability, I can't see them putting one in a car unless they are willing to stand by it.

 

It wont be anything like the RDX. The 2.0T Jetta is close to the same weight as a TSX and actually has slightly better fuel consumption ratings. I believe FSI also has a factor in this along with helping the very minimal turbo lag.

As rb1 as said you need to change your oil and not leave if for extended intervals. Other than that the reliability of turbo engines are very good. Forced induction as been around for a long time and new ideas are always coming forward. Look at the 1.4L twincharger VW has in europe. Supercharged and a turbo, it puts out 170 hp well over 200 tq and about 15-20% better fuel consumption than a NA 2.3L engine....thats pretty impressive for such a small engine.

 

Side issue, but I don't think we get the FSI here in the states (at least not the lean burn combustion) because fuel quality isn't well regulated...

(FSI is a technology for controlling the fuel dispersal in the cylinder. One benefit is the possibly to run the engine on a very lean fuel mixture from an A/F ratio perspective by concentrating s small fuel vapor "cloud" around the spark plug. Very fuel efficient.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_Stratified_Injection)

 

I would love to see AWD, 6sp auto and a turbo or V6 engine, but current TSX owners might not be too happy as the resale value will probably hit them hard. Especially if the second generation looks alot different too.

 

Very interesting. Thanks for the schooling on turbos.

 

One of the things that I really like about the TSX and the TL is the re-sale value. I think that having a turbo will really hurt this. My understanding is, at some point in the life of the car, the turbo must be replaced for high $$$. This was the case in the past. That is one reason why turbos came and went in the 80's. I don't know if present day turbos are any better. Basically, you can't give away a 10 year old car with a turbo unless the turbo has already been replaced.

 

This all sounds like bullsh*t to me. The next TSX will be out this fall as a 2008 model, whether or not it has a turbo is still the unknown.

The dealer chap above does not know what he is talking about.

 

If the TSX comes out in a coupe, then it will have real strong competition against the 2008 Eclipse which is also rumored to have AWD plus a turbo bringing the total HP above 280. It probably will not be as refined as the TSX, but it will be an alternative to those who can't afford a G35. But I'm guessing price-wise the 2008 Eclipse and TSX will be real close...

 

Turbo reliabilty wont hurt resale...its the fact that the car will produce much better overall performance numbers and still maintain great fuel economy that will drive down the first generation resale numbers. IMHO

I agree there was more problems in the 80's with turbo cars, but this was mainly due technology and education especially with North American cars and consumers.

Synthetic oil was just new to automotive's then and was considered a overpriced hoax. I dont think manufactuers even reccomended it for turbo cars back then. Things like letting the engine/turbo cool down for a minute or two after a spirited run before shutting it off...changing the oil regularly....using synthetic oil etc all helps preserve a turbos life. Its just like anything, if you look after it and not abuse or take it for granted it will last a long time.

Also in the last 20 years improvments in parts, seals etc has all improved so the quality/reliability is much better.

 

It depends. The K03 turbo on the old 1.8T could be had for about $800, and then just a few hours labor to install (basically replace oil lines and bolt it on). I don't know what the dealer charged for the job, but the dealer also wanted almost $2000 to put a clutch on the same car too.

(Dunno what a TSX clutch costs to replace, but a turbo can easily last 100-150K miles)

 

My question to the turbo guys is, what's it like at 150k miles? I've had 2 hondas and a BMW in the 150k range, and they still revved like champs. I kicked the snoot out of those cars everyday on a 50+ mile commute in the the Los Angeles area. The engines were as sweet the day I sold them as they we're on mile 40,000.

My only point of reference for turbos was my sister had a '02 S60 T5 Volvo whose acceleration was decidedly laggy and whose characteristics changed well before 100k miles (dunno if it truly had to do with the turbo though).

 

Says who?

A letter from Acura to dealers has already been posted online that outlines 2008 ordering begins in May. So unless the all new 2008 TSX debuts next month, the 08 remains unchanged.

 

I wonder if BMW is worried about the 335's resale? I doubt it.

 

This sounds correct as the 08 TSX's will be the same, but the 09 will be the redesign coming Spring 08.

 

Resale isn't BMW's issue with the 335, it is fuel pumps. There are many posting on bimmerfest about them breaking and replacements being on backorder from BMW. Surprisingly most of the owner's are taking a oh it such a great car that I don't car that I can't drive it till it is fixed attitude. It is kind of amusing though.

 

Hmmm. There have been some spy articles including shots of test mules (I think someone posted one here somewhere but I can dig it up). At least one said the chassis was derived from the American Accord.

We current owners could only wish (at least as far as values are concerned)...

 

Ya i have been watching that too..Apparently it appears a bad batch of pumps from the supplier on earlier models. weather its a fuel pump or a fuel pump relay, it has the same negative result.....at least its not up to a million plus relays and counting.

 

When that twin turbo 335i goes out of warranty, the re-sale value will drop like a rock. Just wait and see.

 

We'll see. Didn't know about all those problems the 335 were having.

Thats why I'll never buy a first year model again. I'll bet the 08+ 335 will be alot more reliable.

 

I'll be my left testicle the TSX remains unchanged for 08. Hell, I'll throw in my right one as well.

 

But you can't be your own testicle!

 

Just in case, replacements available here:

http://www.brucegilbertmd.com/services_testpros.html

 

^^

 

 

You're absolutely right, I don't have any access to information that the general public does not. I am not in regular contact with our Acura rep about product development. I have not already received 08 ordering info from Acura.

Oh wait, Yes I do, Yes I am and Yes I have...........

 

Is there a chance that there will be a TSX Type S for the 2008 model year before the re-design?

 

Your the second or third person to say something about this so I'd like to think its confirmed that the 08 remains unchanged.

And I have no idea why people think the TSX will be all new for 08 and are so shocked to hear that it won't be.

I've been saying spring of 09 for quite some time now so that should have been all the proof they needed.

 

On a side note, I wish Acura would release the Type-S trim on the second or third year of a product's life cycle, rather than in the last year as a last hurrah for that model. It kinda sucks for those TL Type-S owners who have bought it, only to have their vehicle trumped by the next "base model" TL the following year.

 

They do it to increase sales and to keep customers interested before a re-design. Current sales of the TL and TSX are lagging. This is why there is a Type S version of the TL and 1.9% financing. I suspect we will see something similar, low financing or a Type S, for the TSX soon.

 

Does anyone know how long it takes to fix the headlight? I was talking to HONDA customer service regarding recall on the engine and she told me I am ok with that but need to come in for headlights. I heard it gets fogged up. It's so funny because mine just got fogged up. I wonder if they replace them or just fix them.

 

Acura puts out the Type S for the last 2 years of the TL MY cycle (TL 02-03, TL 07-08)

Also, the Type S hold their value much better as they are very limited production.

 

This is exactly my point. One year or two years, its the end of the product cycle which signifies the intent is solely to create a hopped version of a vehicle to keep it relevant to the discussion and to increase lagging sales. While that is a good strategy, I would much rather see a limited production Type S earlier in the product cycle.

This would look more like an enthusiast based decision rather than sheer market manipulation. BMW's M division, AMG, even Mazdaspeed gets a high performance version out quicker than Acura does. In Europe, a Civic Type-R is already available, a year after the new Civic hatch was launched, so Honda isn't unfamiliar with this. The same goes for the Civic and the Civic SI here in the States. I believe this would be as good a strategy for Acura as it is for everyone else.

 

I believe you have posted in the wrong thread. There are existing threads regarding headlight issues in the "Problems & Fixes" forum.

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/