reader1

The TSX quotes I have been getting are nowhere close to that. Which dealership are you able to get that from?

TSXautoXer

for US$31K you can get 03/04 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro 5MT fully optioned. The car is fairly reliable. My girlfriend's cousin had it for more than a year and the only quirk is a burnt taillight (until he drive into a deep puddle and forced some water into the engine, not the car's fault though) Better midrange punch than TSX and 4WD does stick to the ground better. 04 model gets 6MT. Homelink is included, plus front/rear foglights, car computer and more. Free maintainance is a nicety too.
If you only have $27K get TSX, and if you wanna spend more, get Audi.

Santacruz

Why??? Because the car is fairly reliable??? Based off you're girlfriends cousin? Dude that's just shy of basing reliabilty off of you're girlfriend's cousin's friend's A4 experience.

You're high if you think the 1.8 has better midrange punch than the TSX 2.4. Lowend punch maybe but midrange....please.

Are headlight washers, foglights, quattro and questionable reliability worth $4000??

j_love_hewitt

You might have also noticed that the OP is from Canada as well. Your US specs don't help in his decision...

Reader1 - which part of the country are you from? In Toronto and Vancouver $2000+ discounts has been reported multiple times in the forums.

reader1

Edmonton. We have 2 Acura dealerships, but I believe the guy that owns one is also a part owner of the other one.

It's really strange, because there is only one Audi dealership, but they are willing to negotiate, but nothing from Acura.

I may check with some Calgary dealers, or use a car broker.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Via Edmunds:

2003 Audi 1.8T FWD
MSRP, Edmunds TMV
Base = $25,100, $23,515
Metallic/Pearl Effect Paint = $450, $420
Premium Package = $2,000, $1,865
17" Alloy Wheels & All Season Tires = $750, $700
BOSE Premium Sound System = $650, $607
Xenon Headlights = $500, $466
Rear Side Airbags = $350, $327
Destination Charge = $660, $660
Total = $30,460, $28,666

2004 Acura TSX
Base = $26,490, $26,490
Destination Charge = $500, $500
Total = $26,990, $26,990

Total price difference = $3,470, $1676.

Now keep in mind that since the model year is different by one year, AND the residuals are worse the Audi will still end up costing more in the long run.

All in all, there's going to be about $1500 to $2000 difference in initial price for approximately the same car. Pick the one that you like the best.

And, as someone mentioned, the Audi is priced a la carte...if you don't want a feature, leave it off.

darth62

A4s are not really price al la carte. It just seems that way. On the west coast, you can get an A4 1.8 with manual or automatic (and,btw, the automatic is like a $1000 option), the premium package, and the sport package, and that is about it. You really can't pick and choose options, because dealers won't order them that way. Practically, it is like the Acura - one size fits all.

TSXautoXer

Oh...please, I recommended him that car, he is happy about it, and we use the car to race, ON TRACK! And YES! MORE MIDRANGE!!!!!!!! Read the specs of the 1.8T engine (166lb/ft from 1950-5000 RPM ). I am also driving another car with that engine, and I say, IT HAS MORE MIDRANGE.

And I think Quattro justifies it's $1750 price tag. As for the rest of $2250, it's subjective.

Just a side note:
you're = you are, not your

If that's still not enough, here. You should write "your girlfriend's cousin" instead of "your're girlfriend's cousin".

Understand? No?

Santacruz

Oh gee...you got me there...I'm sooo embarrassed by my typo....NOT!
BTW professor you should write "I recommended that car to him" and NOT "I recommended him that car"...Understand? doubt it.

I disagree that 1.8 produces MORE midrange. What's the torque at the wheels? I tried to find some dynos for the 1.8 but I couldn't come up with any. If you have some please post them, I'm curious to compare recent TSX dynos v. the a4 1.8.

As for the rest being subjective. Wrong! The thread is making a cost comparison between the A4 1.8 to the TSX. To make a comparison everything should be as close to equal as possible. That means the A4 must add things like 17" wheels, leather seats, sunroof, etc.

Jason

Just to refresh my memory, have you ever been in or test driven a TSX? I'm very surprised you don't consider it a "real" luxury car, because every person that has been in my car has commented how incredible it is. This has come from BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus owners alike. Does a car have to have real wood trim to qualify as a luxury car? What makes a luxury car in your opinion?

gilboman

to refresh your memory.... i did... the inside was not bad for an acura, better than a TL but the materials quality themselves from the leather to plastics were generally not bad but not as good as in Lexus/Audi/MB... doesnt mean they are bad by any means but just not as good. A car doesnt need real wood trim to be a luxury car..but FAKE wood that people can tell is fake doesnt help it. incredible for the price perhaps...but strictly on a quality of materials, i found it lacking when compared to Lexus/Audi/MB/BMW. Acura did a very good job with the TSX providing lots of features at a low price and made many good compromises.... just go sit inside even a new ES and then in the TSX... there is a noticable difference. but just because the TSX is not as good material wise doesnt mean its bad or not as good, those cars cost more and improved quality is expected... SEcondly and the even more important factor was driving a A4/3series/C class and then TSX,you can again feel that the former feel more solid and poised and lack of rattles even on rough roads show the superior quality again. the european cars can provide a much more solid ride that gives the impression of quality... so in the end..features DO NOT make a luxury car, although they are important, it is a combination of quality, features and driving confidence that make a luxury car to me.

larchmont

I agree completely with gilbo. IMHO, fake wood in an Acura is nuts. I'm biased, because I tend to hate fake anything -- I'd rather have something be a REAL worse thing than a fake better thing -- but besides that, fake wood is a pretention, and I thought that a characteristic of Acura cars and Acura people was non-pretention.

gilboman

it would've been better if they left out the blatant fake wood and put in faux carbon fiber/aluminum trim IMO.

Skyhawk

"Classic" Acura (1986-1995), yes; perhaps new Acura is notsomuch about pretention (but when you read people stroking themselves about their TSX's here.... and claiming this reflects so well upon them... and others are "impressed".... ummm, aren't we getting a bit pretentious?)

If Acura is not pretentious, please explain the digression from classic, revered (by its longtime loyal fans) names like Integra, Legend, and Vigor to pompous, lame, bland, wannabe names like RL, TL, etc.

I do have hope that the TSX is a "new beginning" (or, rather, a return to pre-1995) for Acura as a brand that offers quality, value, reliability, and performance at the "expense" of prestige, but if you think Acura woudn't like to be viewed in the same light as those pretentious brands, you are deluding yourself.

EDIT: And how can I forget "Some things are worth the Price"?
Do you remember that advertising campaign? Does that not sound a bit pretentious?

vitocorleone

I disagree with gilbo that the TSX overall interior materials are of inferior quality to the very entry level german cars (with the exception of the fake wood... Acura what are you smokin'?) but I also admit to only having spent some time in the german cars but never having owned one (but, then, I don't believe gilbo owns a TSX either). I think it again comes to ~90% as good for a lot less, and if that extra ~10% actually matters to the buyer, then they should purchase the more expensive car (or car lacking comparable features to get it near the same price as the TSX).

Btw - I actually prefer the ride in the TSX to the A4... I think the "impression" of quality (of the car, and even of the owner to some) is a lot of what the German cars are all about :-)

larchmont

No, Skyhawk, don't you see?

We want to impress people with how unpretentious we are!

larchmont

No, Vito -- 95%!

darth62

Of course, there is no wood in the entry level A4 1.8T. I know that for a fact because we own one.

Skyhawk

Nor is there fake wood (or fake aluminum) in the A4 1.8T. Now, if the fiberglass of the A4 1.8T is fake....

darth62

my own view is plastic wood and faux metal looks cheap in any car. Of course, of the the "real" wood in cars looks pretty fake anyway. But, I think the faux metal and plastic wood in the TSX detracts from an otherwise classy interior.

As for the bar of fiberglass in the A4 1.8T, it seems to look a bit classier to me. I understand it is just a synthetic as the faux metal in my TSX, but it just seems to look nicer. Don't get me wrong, I love the interior of the TSX, but the Audi just seems a bit more upscale.

The worst offender in the cheap fake interior in this class are the Nissan products - the Maxima and G35. The faux metal in the G35 is cheap, hard, and shiny. It looks like it was made by a toy company. The woodgrain in the Maxima SL and the faux metal int the Maxima SE is just as bad.

adam fiooz

darth62 and gilboman are the only reson i read anything on this forum.only 2 guys that know whats up.

SPUDMTN

So he admits he hasn't a clue here...finally...

lshenretty

This is a tough one for me. Hate to admit I like the fake wood.

Well, actually, I like it better than the fake aluminum.

To me, they both look real. I had real wood in the 528, and I think it would be very difficult for most people to tell the difference. I couldn't.

SPUDMTN

Yeah--the impression. I think that reliability ties in w/ quality... How can you say something is built well if it's in the shop for repairs frequently? "It gives the impression that it's well built"?

It would be my guess that the European brands spend the bulk of their design budget on the materials that the people see and feel--not the inards of the cars (the electronics, etc...) Cost cutting has to be done somewhere, so why not have it be hidden? The Japanese, however, must think that the workings of the car must be top notch, even if the aesthetic features "suffer" a little bit...

So it's just my guess...but doesn't it sound appropriate? How does VW pull off such amazingly nice looking and feeling interiors? Why is it though, that they tend to be garage queens? Hmm...


SPUDMTN

maxmaxmax

I'll answer this quickly. If you narrowed your choice down to the Tsx/Audi you are one step closer to a quality car...Just make sure its the Tsx thats chosen. I owned the Audi last year (supposed to be improved etc.) in the shop 4 times (of course not covered) and is smaller too. The tsx has suprised me and has heads turn all the time with comments: "what the hell are you driving? That's hot "..The rreliablit with Acura is there and 4 yr warranty which i hope i don't need haa..Now the Tsx looks/feels/drives like the european cars.......the others? pure Eurotrash..haha daniel malibu ca

larchmont

Is this dude the max, or what?

Welcome Max, I think we're gonna like you.

gilboman

european spend the bulk of their efforts on the chassis and driving dynamics of the car...which directly translates into the driving enjoyment, not having your suspension squeak, getting some road feel through the steering, communicative brakes,etc..are all things most german cars have over their japenses counterparts..TSX included....squeaks and rattles really annoy me more than mechanical failure...mechanical failure is much easier to fix than a periodic squeak and rattle... German/European cars are put together extremely well and "tight". what's the point of having a car that is just reliable but no fun to drive.

finalheaven

Actually i can agree with that definition of german vs japanese cars in general but very broadly. However i choose to have squeaks and rattles over car failure. I have had my car fail and not start up before. (not due to battery) And i hated it. If its a choice that i have to give up, such as having a little less fun compared to the car being more reliable, i would definitely choose reliability. After that having fun with my car isn't the only thing that i can do for fun. However if the car fails, it might prevent me from doing other things that are fun. If you get what i mean.

darth62

Sorry, dude, I love my TSX and think it is a class machine from top to bottom. I would just prefer it without the faux metal. But, that is about the only detail in the interior that I don't like.

larchmont

You don't think Acuras are fun to drive? You don't think the TSX is fun to drive?

TSXautoXer

Oh, great. Yes, you're right, the rest of the world WRONG.

I shouldn't have recommend him the car. I should let you talk to him. Thank you so much for enlightening me. I will now go kill those who pay more for Audi...

That's too extreme in my taste...

You have the right to your preference. However, let me have mine, and I did not say "pay that extra money and get that nice Audi. Forget about TSX!!" Did I?

I just presented my opinion on A4 1.8T, and I thought that's really objective. Nothing bad about TSX here. I said before, TSX has a GREAT engine. Not too much zing under 3k rpm, but the process of hitting redline is to die for, everytime. And the handling bested Peugeot for FWD cars.

So, there, that's my opinion on TSX. Cost? I insist on my point. If you only have $27K, get TSX, no other. But if you have $31K, and would like to spend it all, get A4. And that last sentence is NOT a recommendation.
a4
BTW, I recommended A4 to my girlfriend's cousin because at that point, TSX is not here yet. And I still think A4 does a commendable job in chassis rigidity, and improved a lot on reliability.

darth62

My family has had, in the last 10 years, two M-Bs, one BMW 330, and one A4 1.8T. All had squeaks and rattles out the ying-yang. My ex-girlfriend's Passat is the same way. It is simply not the case that European cars are some how screwed together better than Asian cars.

And, btw, I have 3,000 miles on my TSX. I do have one annoying rattle (in the sunroof), but otherwise the car is about as solid as can be.

gilboman

well... with the execption of the NSX... the TSX is not bad at all..but just not "fun" enough for me personally.

gilboman

i dont think they are "screwed" together any better, it just feels the chassis feel so much more solid and handling feels more secure... perhaps its the suspension tuning or whatever i cant put my finger on it... but i've driving plenty of my shares of japenese cars and most of them just dont feel as solid "vault like" of the europeans..i know the europeans arent as reliable though...

MotownTSX

My Bimmer's interior moans like a bitch when I drive, but I don't care as it feels like she's alive! The leather ripples, the plastic on the dash creaks during hard turns or when using buttons, the seats shift and yeep a little when moving around, etc. Not defects, but like being in a living machine. Of course, not everyone would like this, but I find it adds more to the experience. Just my .02.

darth62

Actually, I tend to agree with this. Subjectively, my dad's BMW does feel a lot more "vault like" than my TSX. And, in fact, my TSX dsomehow feels a lot less secure on the road than the BMW, perhaps because hard bumps seem to knock it off course.

adam fiooz

Originally posted by maxmaxmax
I'll answer this quickly. If you narrowed your choice down to the Tsx/Audi you are one step closer to a quality car...Just make sure its the Tsx thats chosen.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Is this dude the max, or what?

Welcome Max, I think we're gonna like you.


Why are you going to like him so much?Because he will be one more numnut that thinks the tsx is better then any other car ever!!lol

darth62

Adam, you are the personification of TROLL.

lshenretty

Man! you're an angry guy. Might be better accepted (if you care) if you'd try to respond without all the ridicule.

Santacruz

umm...it's "numb" not "num"...you really are 6'1" of full on stupid! LOL!

by the way, I saw an accord coupe today and I let my dog relieve himself on the tires! LOL!