reader1

I have narrowed my choice down to 2 vehicles. Eliminated the BMW 325i because it is significantly more expensive, and also because I drive in snow 6 months of the year. Eliminated the G35 for the same reasons.

So it is down to the A4 1.8T FWD vs the TSX.

Price: Audi is less expensive. While the TSX has a lower MSRP, I find that I cannot get much of a discount, whereas I can get a significant discount on the 2003 A4. The bottom line is that the Audi is slightly less expensive (at least in Canada).

Reliability: A tie. My original concern was the reliability of the Audi. But from the Lemon-Aid Guide, which I trust: "Saddled in the early 80s with a reputation for poor-quality cars, Audi fought back and staged a spectacular comeback with well-built, good-looking, moderately priced cars ... Audi has gained a reputation for making sure-footed luxury cars that are loaded with lots of high-tech bells and whistles ... of all of the European Competition, Audi would be my first choice for a fun driving experience without the fear that my wallet will be emptied by outrageous service charges."

I also checked the NHTSA database, and there are very few safety-related complaints registered on the Audi. By contrast, there are TONS of complaints against the 2003 Accord, many of which of which involve deaths or injuries. They don't have the TSX in the database.

I have concerns about the repair costs of the TSX after warranty expires, because there are so few of them, and the TSX doesn't share parts with the American Accord/Civic, so I may not be able to turn to independent garages. Mind you, the same applies to the Audi.

Looks: I like the youthful look of the TSX (this is my mid-life crisis car).

Acceleration from a stand-still. This is very important to me, because every morning I have to make a right turn onto a very busy road from a full stop, and I need the accelerate to move into the gaps. I find the Audi has the edge here, as I get the acceleration without having to wait for the rpm to move up significantly.

Handling: I find the smaller turning circle of the Audi to make quite a difference when I am parallel parking or squeezing into tight gaps in traffic. The Audi is shorter by 4" which also helps. The handling of the Audi is exceptional, and the brakes feel very confident. On the other hand, the TSX is quieter.

Interior: Definitely like the TSX ebony/aluminum interior better. And the A4 with the sunroof takes away quite a bit from the headroom.

Prestige: Saying that I have an Audi is more prestigous. I know, it shouldn't matter, but it does.

Anyways, I am going to test drive each of these one more time. I want to make a decision by the end of the week. But right now I am leaning slightly towards the A4.

finalheaven

The 0-60 for the A4 1.8T is 7.8 seconds... but probably does have more low end power. To me the looks of the A4 is better then the bmw or tsx. The interior too is very refined although the interior of the tsx is just so damn good looking as well. If prestige matters TSX might not be a good choice. Acura is getting there but is not there at the moment. It has many resemblences to the accord (i mean it is the euporean accord) and slight resemblences to the civic.

As for the reliability i researched this myself when i was comparing the cars that i wanted. Audi has gotten much better even from just 3 years ago. They have solved many problems and the current A4 series should be solid. Even if it might not beat the TSX. I also knew the A4 would be cheaper then the TSX as well but i think the TSX is still a better a car. Hence for me its either the c230 sedan vs the TSX. I do not drive in the snow so that does not matter for me. I shall of chosen one by the end of this month.

BlackTSXer

resembles a civic?

bbbuzzy

I think you're mistaken about the reliability of Audi. Anyone who thinks the A4 is reliable should talk to current/former owners and ask them about window regulators, ignition coils, ball joints, etc. The list of defective parts on the A4/Passat platform is extensive. Acura has an excellent reliability record and this alone should tell you who is better in regards to reliabilty. Mind you, the A4 is sexy, fun to drive, and a great drivers car; you'll just be in the shop more often. Good luck.

p.s. Why not go with the Quattro if winter driving was a concern of yours?

2focus

I was thinking about the FWD A4 1.8T also. But i gave up on that idea because it only has 170hp, while the same engine in other VW cars make at 180hp. i knew they are going to do an "upgrade" in coming years; some kind of gimmick or something.
and i recently found out that the 2004 A4 1.8T will have 190hp, instantly making the 2003 looks inferior.
that was my biggest concern.

chrisalberts

I am impressed that you can get $2700 of the Audi. I get the prices (similarly equipped) as being $29710 Audi versus $27k for the Acura. That does make the Audi look a little more attractive. Plus you'll probably find the resale is better on the Audi.

Also, if you're concerned about power then you can cheaply upgrade the Audi to over 200hp for about $500. (Don't consider it a disadvantage that VW/Audi has various versions of that 1.8T motor - that's a non-issue. The 1.8T feels pretty quick in the car you're looking at.)

However, I too have driven both (quattro version of the Audi), and I think the Acura has nicer handling and was a sportier drive. The 03 A4 does not have the best shift action (improved for 04) and is a 5sp rather than a 6sp (if you care - I wouldn't).

I think the seats in the Acura are much nicer, I found over a couple of hours in the Audi that the seats made my butt hurt. I think the Acura is better equipped too.

I can't tell you what to buy, but I can suggest that you try and get an extended test drive (like an hour or more). If you don't do it during a peak time (say Saturday) then the dealer won't have a problem with it. Take the car out on your own so you get a chance to settle in with it. Often impressions can change over an hour or so.

C.

chrisalberts

I find your comment interesting. VW/Audi has versions of this motor ranging from 150hp through 225hp. How is this some kind of gimmick? The motor just exists in different states of tune for different tasks. There are some internal differences too.

The advantage for the buyer is that you can get an Audi 1.8T with 170hp and for $500 chip it to close to 200. Most dealers don't consider this a warranty-voiding issue.

Many manufacturers creep up the hp on their cars as they progress through the model's lifetime - and it is irritating, as you say.

C.

teombe

I've been quoted around $2000 off of MSRP before for an A4... and that was for a 2004 model. I can't say I agree with you on the resale, though. Acura, Lexus, and BMW consistently have had higher resale values in the past. VW/Audi is up there, but not nearly as high. Most banks will bet on the TSX having a 61% residual value after 3 years. An A4's residual value is at 54% - closer to Infiniti than Acura.

Santacruz

I choose between the Audi 3.0 and the TSX...

Price - I'm curious if you're comparing the same list of features to have the Audi 1.8T come out less-expensive??

Reliability - (I'm sure Larch is going to have a lot of things to say about this one) I have SERIOUS doubts that the Audi is remotely close to Acura in reliability.

After Warranty Repair - Your concerns IMO are unfounded. First, by the time your warranty is up there will be a lot more TSXs around. Second, The TSX shares many parts from other Honda autos. For example, the engine is a Kseries motor that is used in other Honda cars, like the CRV...plenty of those around.

Looks - It's subjective...I like the A4 looks.

Acceleration - Torque v. HP. the Audi has more low-end torque & less HP. The TSX has more HP and more high-end torque.

Handleing - The A4 quattro w/sport pkg may compete with the TSX but NOT the A4 1.8t

Interior - I liked them both.

Prestige - Audi

2focus

what is the different task you speak of when VW detune the same engine in the jetta for the A4?

donutchow

i still hear audi has a lot of bugs in their cars, just like the vw's still have.

NickR

I believe Audi/VW has fixed the major coilpack problem - hopefully. But I had full intentions of getting the A4 after selling my Jetta. But I couldn't get anything for less than $29K w/ the sport package and premium pkg. I wanted the lower suspension, better wheels, and sunroof.

But in the end, the Audi dealer was too far away (about 80 miles - even though they would drive down in a flatbed and pick the car for service, which is amazing) and I couldn't justify another $2000 over the Acura. To be honest, I've never really looked back. I still love the looks and prestige of the Audi, but I know the TSX looks 98% as good, handles 20% better, and will last twice as long. I wish the TSX was a hair smaller, though. It doesnt feel huge, I'm just used to my old Jetta and like the smaller feeling.

teombe

I know that this is a fairly random sampling... but, my friend has an A4 3.0 that will be 1 year old next month. So far, he has only had to take his car in for 1 unscheduled warranty service for an electrical problem.

His only other problem is a rarely reoccurring transmission (CVT) problem. Basically, when he shifts from park to reverse, the car will lunge backward unexpectedly. It's like the CVT selects the wrong ratio for a split second or something. It's scary, but if you have your foot on the brakes, the car won't actually go anywhere. The dealer does not know what the problem is, and have said that they need to remove the transmission to figure it out.

As the previous owner of a VW jetta, I considered buying an A4 3.0. My jetta had both front windows fall in twice due to broken regulators. I decided that I didn't want to see my dealer's service department that often anymore.

IMHO, audi's problems fall into a "gray area" of reliability. Your car isn't out of service, but stuff still doesn't work the way it should all the time.

rb1

Differences here are subtle and strictly related to how much boost the turbo is programmed for (and pairing with the appropriate exhaust). They all put out similar torque (from 162 lb-ft in the 150 hp VW motor to 174 lb-ft in the 180 hp motor). The differences are in how boost is maintained at the high end.

Note that more boost/hp also = more turbo lag. Besides, you could always get a chip.

I have the 150 hp version of this motor and find it more than adequate for hauling a 2950 lb Jetta around. I've driven the 170 hp A4 and thought it was OK, but the car weighs an extra 400 lbs.

chrisalberts

You are probably right about residuals. My thought was that residuals are usually calculated off list, and an excellent discount off list puts you in an advantageous position right away. My bad.

Was that $2k off an 04 at Roger Beasley here in town, or did you have to go further afield?

C.

finalheaven

From a simple $500 chip you can go over 200hp easily from what i heard. More or less that would make the 3.0 useless however against the 1.8t. Many from the audi forums have gone over 220 hp with a simple chip. Whether or not it voids the warranty is usually up the dealer. However if you can prove that the chip did not damage the component of the other materials then they have to repair it no matter what.

TSX's resale values are complete guesses at this point. Whether or not they are higher then the Audi cannot be said at this point. However the Audi is known for sure. As for the problems of Audi, many people are basing it upon just a few years, which Audi did fix a whole lot of things. The choice between the 2 is completely up to you though. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

adam fiooz

The 0-60 for the A4 1.8T is 7.8 seconds..

Thats faster then the tsx with its 0-60 in 8.0.I think the a4 is better all around you should go for it.

Roadrunner_RENAMED

Hey Adam, your mama's calling, time to go home now.
Why don't you go hang out on the Audi board if you like it so much? (Please, do us the favor!)

finalheaven

whoa... actually he's an accord fan who believes that accords are much better then the TSX. And that the TSX's extra costs are not worth it.

Saintor_RENAMED

He is. I owned an Audi many years. Not too bad for the first 3-4 years, but after that they often turn themselves in rolling nightmares.

BlackTSXer

wait!!! honda civic??

and adam.. its not 8.0 secs again..best timed was 7.3...

dabuda

lovitz

is that the guy that thinks domestics are better than imports? haha what a loser.

adam fiooz

You guys are just a bunch of clowns that think the tsx is better then any car.i have lots of friends with audis and they never have any problems at all..

adam fiooz

By the way i dont think the accord is better i know it is.

adam fiooz

and adam.. its not 8.0 secs again..best timed was 7.3...


lol best tested my ass its does 0-60 in 8 secs stop dreaming.

Santacruz

here's my impression of adam

(drag knuckles on keyboard and type)

uh...accord fast...(wipe nose on arm)...ah...tsx is ugly...(scratch butt and sniff)...hahaha...(eat another pop tart and wonder what it would be like to kiss sister)

darth62

Adam, not that I really care, but I'm not sure why you feel the need to come to a TSX enthusiast site and knock the TSX. If you don't like the car fine, but why visit this page and disrupt conversation for the rest of us?

Anyway, onto the topic of the thread. My sister has a 1.8 A4 automatic, and I get to ride in it quite a bit. It is really nicely finished inside, with superior material quality to the TSX (just my opinion), although the layout of the controls is not as intuitive.

I think it handles about as well as the TSX, in terms of staying on the road, although it has been feel and driver feedback. Neither Audi transmission is up to the TSX's standards. The TSX has reasonable acceleration with the 4-cyl and the automatic, but the automatic on the 1.8 T seems to have some hesitation off the line. The modified K24 in the TSX is light years beyond the 1.8T in smooveness.

I like the looks of the A4 better, as well as the ride. IMO, the A4 is a better ride/handling compromise.

The TSX has some features (like NAV system, HIDs) that are not available on the lower-levels of the Audi A4.

Resale value should favor the TSX (based on the residuals) by a large margin. The TSX should be a lot more reliable.

My advice: If you are leasing and not planning to keep the are beyond four years, pick the vehicle you like best. If you are going to keep the car a long time, stay away from the Audi.

darth62

There are 0-60 times published in 10 to 15 reviews. No reviewer, other than carpoint of Canada (which is 0-100 KMH) has reported a 0-60 time greater than 7.9 seconds. Basically, you're ignoring all the data because you would like to convince youself that the TSX is slower than it really is.

gilboman

if you are just going to keep the car for 4 years or less and can get the audi at same or below price of TSX..i would get the Audi... The quality is above the TSX and you actually feel like you are in a real luxury car and 4yrs maintence is free as well. although i think the TSX would marginally outperform the 1.8T FWD, but the audi seems to have more usable power down low. But if you plan on keeping the car past the warranty period...i'll get an Acura. but who keeps their car that long anyways???

YBA

One more thing to factor in... Car insurancs... I pay something like $990 CDN for my TSX and would pay $1500 CDN for a 1.8T (don't ask me why, I don't know).

darth62

The only downside to that logic is that, even if maintence is free, lots of trips to the dealer are no fun.

adam fiooz

First of all your soo right gilboman.second i like the tsx at the same time ive never seen a forum for any car were everyone thinks there car is the best ever lol.

if you guys want to learn about cars go to http://www.v6performance.net/

jackspat2

Seem like you want to the Audi more than the TSX. All you're going to hear on here (a TSX forum) is about how good the TSX is and it's a great car and in my opinion better than the Audi, but if you think the Audi is better for you, I don't think it would be a bad move to buy an Audi. Audi an't that bad. Every car company has it's quirks. As far as repair costs, I think they will be higher than a TSX. But then again, buying a TSX is like buying reliability.

Iceman

Exterior styling -- A4 10 TSX 9
Interior styling -- A4 10 TSX 10
Usable back seat -- A4 5 TSX 8
Manual tranny -- A4 7 TSX 10
Engine -- A4 10 TSX 10
Price (comparably equipped) A4 7 TSX 10
Handling A4 8 TSX 10
Reliability A4 5 TSX 10

Total A4 60

TSX 77

vitocorleone

i was going to reply with a whole bunch of great arguments and counterpoints, but it's so pointless to waste that much time with adam's nonsense and gilbo's wacky "reasoning". just makes me sleepy.

fdl

I agree with those scores except i'd give the handling edge to the a4 and i wouldnt give either car a 10 for engine.

gilboman

you forgot quality....the Audi's main advantage IMO

gilboman

i know exactly what you mean..on all other car forums, there are the usual fanboys but most of the members know that there are better cars out there and they can actually point out the disadvantages and acknowledge advantages of other cars and realize that their car is not the best for its price or performance but they chose it based on their priorities and their priorities may not be same as others... there are a lot of open minded members here but also have higher than your average share of fanboys than most other boards. they think this is a TSX fanclub instead of what it really is, a DISCUSSION board.

fdl

gilbo...i agree with alot of things you say...and up to now i respected your opinion. But taking sides with the idiot ultra troll adam just dropped you way way way down in my books. :shakehd: :shakehd: :thumbsdn: