New 3 Series
05-19-2005, 11:25 PM
#2
Many auto mags that have test driven the 3 series say the Nav on the next 3 is friendlier than the 5 and the 7.
The next 3 in person looks a lot better than in the magazines!!
The next 3 in person looks a lot better than in the magazines!!
05-19-2005, 11:44 PM
#3
HOWARD911S
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: los angeles
Age: 50
Posts: 821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
how does new 3 compare to tsx..? course better. If not in reliability but definitely out accelerate us, base 325 is 215 hp inline 6...you get what you pay for....not to bash tSx that i own one myself and loving it... but head to head if body are in stock version.. new 3 has the upperhand for sure
05-20-2005, 12:08 AM
#4
Advanced
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toms River, NJ / Atlanta, GA
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Howard911s
but head to head if body are in stock version.. new 3 has the upperhand for sure
-rpc
05-20-2005, 01:24 AM
#5
Drifting
Originally Posted by rpcmx
Yeah, maybe, but still, the 3 still has a good 5K on the TSX as well... I went to the BMW dealer yesterday, and I'm not a fan of the new car, though I didn't get to drive it. I loved the old 3's classic yet gorgeous lines, but the new one... ick.
-rpc
-rpc
As for the bmw, a bmw is still German and although it will drive like a German sedan, you will get other things that come with it as well.
I drove a 540 before i bought the TSX. It's an upward of $60,000 car new depending on the features.
When the car was new, and before things started breaking. Everything was cool.
In only the few years i've owned the car, the radiator has gone out twice, subsiquently the forum folks suggested getting the water pump and resevoir replaced too since those usually go at about the same time as the radiator.
Then the driver's side rear passenger window broke too. It rolled down, i heard something plastic snap, and the window wouldn't roll back up. Then after the break in period, the vanos valves started to make a noise like an empty can on start up. It made the car sound like a loud rattling paint spray can on startup.
Then a few months later, the power steering pump started to make a hissing noise in the summer months when it got warmer. Then not only that, but i was made aware that the control arm bushings and the thrust arm suspension bushings were going to need to be replaced at 60,000 miles then every 60,000 miles afterwards. Otherwise, the car will have a front end shimmy and will be all over the place on the highway. Then upon further research on the forums, the higher mileage 5 series also needed head gasket replacements after a while, otherwise the catalytic converter will be damaged and repairs can climb in excess of thousands. Then in the interior, the cupholders would be basically broken the whole time. I didn't even bother trying to fix them anymore after a while. Then a while after that, the pixels in my dash board started to go out, and shortly after my A/C control unit started to function. The lights that controlled the A/C would move when i hit the button, but the fan speed and temperature never changed.
This was back with the e39 (1997-2003) 5 series.
I've heard even WORSE nightmares with the new 04's that came out.
Have you read about the "active steering" feature? there were a few members on the forums that had some scary stories about that. That active steering is virtually controlled by a computer. This one time while on a highway offramp goign through a turn, the computer "locked up" because on his computer screen on the dash said "system error" then all of the sudden the steering wheel froze. YES! That's right! Literally froze! Scared the shit out of him! (luckily this was later at night and there were few cars nearby).
So he took it into the dealership the next day and they updated his software. Then all of the sudden his power mirrors stopped working.
Of course, when everything on my 540 was running perfect, the car was a blast to drive! Smooth on the highways, screaming through twisties, burning ricers with my 300hp V8.
Although most of my issues were covered under warranty in the beginning, i didn't want to keep this car long past it's warranty period. That would've cost me an arm and a leg to upkeep. Plus i was getting sick of the $60-80 oil changes, plus upcharges on alignments because my car was a BMW.
I figured for $60,000, you'd have a much better car. But i guess i'm wrong... the mercedes have even more problems than the BMW;s.
05-20-2005, 02:41 AM
#6
Arctic Blue Pearl
Join Date: Nov 2004
Age: 40
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
German VS Japanese... Id give it to Japanese. I was once told, that the the difference between German cars is that they build their cars with the best materials but their fit and finish is sub par. Japanese Automakers use mediocre materials but excel in fit and finish. Id say Lexus' fit and finish is best around by far...IMO
05-20-2005, 05:19 AM
#7
Hondaholic
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CT
Age: 58
Posts: 885
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by rpcmx
the 3 still has a good 5K on the TSX as well...
The new IS250 might prove to be a better competitor $$ wise/value wise........
Trending Topics
05-20-2005, 06:06 AM
#8
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Age: 49
Posts: 7,594
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
Originally Posted by tsos
Anyone drive one yet?
How does it compare to the TSX?
Is their Nav unit better than that in the 5 Series, which wasn't intuitive or friendly to operate?
How does it compare to the TSX?
Is their Nav unit better than that in the 5 Series, which wasn't intuitive or friendly to operate?
Anything else you want to know??
05-20-2005, 08:05 AM
#9
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maryland
Age: 45
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the new 3 series is ugly. The current version looks much better.
and I agree that while the three may be better (technologically speaking), it is wayy more expensive for what you get. You're still paying for that BMW badge.
and I agree that while the three may be better (technologically speaking), it is wayy more expensive for what you get. You're still paying for that BMW badge.
05-20-2005, 09:52 AM
#12
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Alin10123
The 3 series Nav is going to be easier to operate than the 5 series and the 5 series nav is going to be easier than the 7 series. The "i-drive" that the BMW's now use is simplified as you go down the line. I can't really say that the BMW's navigation is better than Acura's though. I think the Acura Nav system wins hands down. It's got every feature i've thought of using so far.
As for the bmw, a bmw is still German and although it will drive like a German sedan, you will get other things that come with it as well.
I drove a 540 before i bought the TSX. It's an upward of $60,000 car new depending on the features.
When the car was new, and before things started breaking. Everything was cool.
In only the few years i've owned the car, the radiator has gone out twice, subsiquently the forum folks suggested getting the water pump and resevoir replaced too since those usually go at about the same time as the radiator.
Then the driver's side rear passenger window broke too. It rolled down, i heard something plastic snap, and the window wouldn't roll back up. Then after the break in period, the vanos valves started to make a noise like an empty can on start up. It made the car sound like a loud rattling paint spray can on startup.
Then a few months later, the power steering pump started to make a hissing noise in the summer months when it got warmer. Then not only that, but i was made aware that the control arm bushings and the thrust arm suspension bushings were going to need to be replaced at 60,000 miles then every 60,000 miles afterwards. Otherwise, the car will have a front end shimmy and will be all over the place on the highway. Then upon further research on the forums, the higher mileage 5 series also needed head gasket replacements after a while, otherwise the catalytic converter will be damaged and repairs can climb in excess of thousands. Then in the interior, the cupholders would be basically broken the whole time. I didn't even bother trying to fix them anymore after a while. Then a while after that, the pixels in my dash board started to go out, and shortly after my A/C control unit started to function. The lights that controlled the A/C would move when i hit the button, but the fan speed and temperature never changed.
This was back with the e39 (1997-2003) 5 series.
I've heard even WORSE nightmares with the new 04's that came out.
Have you read about the "active steering" feature? there were a few members on the forums that had some scary stories about that. That active steering is virtually controlled by a computer. This one time while on a highway offramp goign through a turn, the computer "locked up" because on his computer screen on the dash said "system error" then all of the sudden the steering wheel froze. YES! That's right! Literally froze! Scared the shit out of him! (luckily this was later at night and there were few cars nearby).
So he took it into the dealership the next day and they updated his software. Then all of the sudden his power mirrors stopped working.
Of course, when everything on my 540 was running perfect, the car was a blast to drive! Smooth on the highways, screaming through twisties, burning ricers with my 300hp V8.
Although most of my issues were covered under warranty in the beginning, i didn't want to keep this car long past it's warranty period. That would've cost me an arm and a leg to upkeep. Plus i was getting sick of the $60-80 oil changes, plus upcharges on alignments because my car was a BMW.
I figured for $60,000, you'd have a much better car. But i guess i'm wrong... the mercedes have even more problems than the BMW;s.
As for the bmw, a bmw is still German and although it will drive like a German sedan, you will get other things that come with it as well.
I drove a 540 before i bought the TSX. It's an upward of $60,000 car new depending on the features.
When the car was new, and before things started breaking. Everything was cool.
In only the few years i've owned the car, the radiator has gone out twice, subsiquently the forum folks suggested getting the water pump and resevoir replaced too since those usually go at about the same time as the radiator.
Then the driver's side rear passenger window broke too. It rolled down, i heard something plastic snap, and the window wouldn't roll back up. Then after the break in period, the vanos valves started to make a noise like an empty can on start up. It made the car sound like a loud rattling paint spray can on startup.
Then a few months later, the power steering pump started to make a hissing noise in the summer months when it got warmer. Then not only that, but i was made aware that the control arm bushings and the thrust arm suspension bushings were going to need to be replaced at 60,000 miles then every 60,000 miles afterwards. Otherwise, the car will have a front end shimmy and will be all over the place on the highway. Then upon further research on the forums, the higher mileage 5 series also needed head gasket replacements after a while, otherwise the catalytic converter will be damaged and repairs can climb in excess of thousands. Then in the interior, the cupholders would be basically broken the whole time. I didn't even bother trying to fix them anymore after a while. Then a while after that, the pixels in my dash board started to go out, and shortly after my A/C control unit started to function. The lights that controlled the A/C would move when i hit the button, but the fan speed and temperature never changed.
This was back with the e39 (1997-2003) 5 series.
I've heard even WORSE nightmares with the new 04's that came out.
Have you read about the "active steering" feature? there were a few members on the forums that had some scary stories about that. That active steering is virtually controlled by a computer. This one time while on a highway offramp goign through a turn, the computer "locked up" because on his computer screen on the dash said "system error" then all of the sudden the steering wheel froze. YES! That's right! Literally froze! Scared the shit out of him! (luckily this was later at night and there were few cars nearby).
So he took it into the dealership the next day and they updated his software. Then all of the sudden his power mirrors stopped working.
Of course, when everything on my 540 was running perfect, the car was a blast to drive! Smooth on the highways, screaming through twisties, burning ricers with my 300hp V8.
Although most of my issues were covered under warranty in the beginning, i didn't want to keep this car long past it's warranty period. That would've cost me an arm and a leg to upkeep. Plus i was getting sick of the $60-80 oil changes, plus upcharges on alignments because my car was a BMW.
I figured for $60,000, you'd have a much better car. But i guess i'm wrong... the mercedes have even more problems than the BMW;s.
Geez, sorta gives the term "break in" new meaning.
05-20-2005, 10:48 AM
#14
Automobile Aficionado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jersey shore
Age: 43
Posts: 1,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Already made my decision, the 3 series will most likely be my next car or an additon. The resale of the TSX is great and hopefully will stay high. I got to sit in a new 3 series and it is great. Love the look also, but i just hate how BMW gets you on all the damn packages and options.
05-20-2005, 07:58 PM
#15
send me a link to JDM??
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NoVA
Age: 41
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I gotta say I really dont like the redesign. The old ones looked good because they didn't necessary look like the "smallest" model. Now you can def tell that the 3-series is the smallest model, the redesign makes it look small.... def dont like it.
05-20-2005, 08:14 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
I scoped one out today, a white 330i. Things pretty sweet, which surprised me, as I didn't like the pics I've seen. I honestly don't really need a sedan, and for the money, I'm leaning G35 Coupe. Oh well, I have another year on the TSX lease to decide. Hmmm...G35 Coupe, Tl, 330i, who knows, maybe a certified pre-owned 05 RL may creep into the picture by then. All I know is I have a year from July to decide. I gotta go check out some more cars. 
05-20-2005, 10:44 PM
#18
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Liking the new 3, just as I've loved the new 5 and the presnet 7-series as well. 
If they weren't so damn pricey and unreliable, I'd consider the jump.
If they weren't so damn pricey and unreliable, I'd consider the jump.
05-21-2005, 09:30 AM
#19
Banned
I disagree on the "unreliable" aspect. After all, BMW won the second spot in J.D. Powers initial quality survey, just behind Lexus. And Acura was ranked average.
Pricey? yes. A white 325i with sunroof and sport package would be at 45700$CAD compared to 36100$ for the TSX. No leather or electrical seats. Metallic paint would be a 800$ option. Against a 43100$ TL 6 sp. it might have a case.
Pricey? yes. A white 325i with sunroof and sport package would be at 45700$CAD compared to 36100$ for the TSX. No leather or electrical seats. Metallic paint would be a 800$ option. Against a 43100$ TL 6 sp. it might have a case.
05-21-2005, 11:23 AM
#20
Advanced
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toms River, NJ / Atlanta, GA
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Saintor
I disagree on the "unreliable" aspect. After all, BMW won the second spot in J.D. Powers initial quality survey, just behind Lexus. And Acura was ranked average.
Pricey? yes. A white 325i with sunroof and sport package would be at 45700$CAD compared to 36100$ for the TSX. No leather or electrical seats. Metallic paint would be a 800$ option. Against a 43100$ TL 6 sp. it might have a case.
-rpc
05-21-2005, 11:43 AM
#21
Banned
Actually a 325i *IS* competing with a TL; in a comparo in C&D last year, a 325i won the 2nd spot and the TL the 3rd.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Reliability of BMW are FAR from being as bad as some like to claim in the first 4-5 years.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
Reliability of BMW are FAR from being as bad as some like to claim in the first 4-5 years.
05-21-2005, 11:59 AM
#22
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by Saintor
I disagree on the "unreliable" aspect. After all, BMW won the second spot in J.D. Powers initial quality survey, just behind Lexus. And Acura was ranked average.
If you want reliability surveys, I'll show you some, and it's not good news for BMW.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/a...o_reliability/
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/N...568337,00.html
http://www.helpfulhomeideas.com/car-...liability.html
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...b01-328882.htm
Need more?
05-21-2005, 12:08 PM
#23
Banned
Here is an extract an extensive survey at Consumer Report
1997 Model Year - (Eight-year-old vehicles)
Best Asian model Best American models Best European model
Lexus LS400 Mercury Cougar BMW 3 Series
Problems/100 vehicles 25 65 98
http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0504nat0.html
Not as bad as some would like to think...
1997 Model Year - (Eight-year-old vehicles)
Best Asian model Best American models Best European model
Lexus LS400 Mercury Cougar BMW 3 Series
Problems/100 vehicles 25 65 98
http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0504nat0.html
Not as bad as some would like to think...
05-21-2005, 12:23 PM
#24
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by Saintor
Here is an extract an extensive survey at Consumer Report
1997 Model Year - (Eight-year-old vehicles)
Best Asian model Best American models Best European model
Lexus LS400 Mercury Cougar BMW 3 Series
Problems/100 vehicles 25 65 98
http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0504nat0.html
Not as bad as some would like to think...
1997 Model Year - (Eight-year-old vehicles)
Best Asian model Best American models Best European model
Lexus LS400 Mercury Cougar BMW 3 Series
Problems/100 vehicles 25 65 98
http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0504nat0.html
Not as bad as some would like to think...
It only makes them the best among the losers.
Look at the numbers you've posted: Lexus LS400: 25 problems per 100 vehicles.
BMW: 98 problems per vehicle.
That's no twice as many problems, not three times, THAT'S FOUR TIMES as many problems than a Lexus.
What's more, you're looking back to 1997, 8 years ago. Since then, reliability has been renowned to have dropped even more!
"Not as bad as some would like to think..." I think that's pretty bad as it is already!
05-21-2005, 12:54 PM
#25
Banned
What is the industry average? Much higher than 98. Lexus is an isolated case and NOTHING compares to it...
Most bests overall are between 65-85. So the difference is... minimal. BMW has an excellent reputation for reliability in Europe. So do Porsche. Mercedes is drifting. Audi continues to play hide and seek.
Most bests overall are between 65-85. So the difference is... minimal. BMW has an excellent reputation for reliability in Europe. So do Porsche. Mercedes is drifting. Audi continues to play hide and seek.
05-21-2005, 01:03 PM
#26
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by Saintor
What is the industry average? Much higher than 98. Lexus is an isolated case and NOTHING compares to it...
Most bests overall are between 65-85. So the difference is... minimal.
Most bests overall are between 65-85. So the difference is... minimal.
Originally Posted by Saintor
BMW has an excellent reputation for reliability in Europe. So do Porsche. Mercedes is drifting. Audi continues to play hide and seek.
At any rate, even though they were considere reliable proves nothing but one point: They have their heads up their asses. Just like North Americans who swear, live and die by Big 3.
05-21-2005, 01:28 PM
#28
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
You seem to be right about this. This site is pointing your way: http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/ca...28339010848601
However, the base of the argument is still that European cars are the worst at reliability scores, and that includes BMW. Even if the 3-series is the best among the worst.
That still doesn't make them reliable cars. Fact is, they aren't. And you have to pay up a hell of a premium for a car that will drain your pockets dry over time because of it's high-repair, high-maintenance costs. And repair costs, at least to me isn't calculated in the repair bill. I also need to deduct the time I spend at the dealership getting the car repaired, time I can't spend on the road where I make my living
However, the base of the argument is still that European cars are the worst at reliability scores, and that includes BMW. Even if the 3-series is the best among the worst.
That still doesn't make them reliable cars. Fact is, they aren't. And you have to pay up a hell of a premium for a car that will drain your pockets dry over time because of it's high-repair, high-maintenance costs. And repair costs, at least to me isn't calculated in the repair bill. I also need to deduct the time I spend at the dealership getting the car repaired, time I can't spend on the road where I make my living
05-21-2005, 01:35 PM
#29
Drifting
Originally Posted by Saintor
Here is an extract an extensive survey at Consumer Report
1997 Model Year - (Eight-year-old vehicles)
Best Asian model Best American models Best European model
Lexus LS400 Mercury Cougar BMW 3 Series
Problems/100 vehicles 25 65 98
http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0504nat0.html
Not as bad as some would like to think...
1997 Model Year - (Eight-year-old vehicles)
Best Asian model Best American models Best European model
Lexus LS400 Mercury Cougar BMW 3 Series
Problems/100 vehicles 25 65 98
http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0504nat0.html
Not as bad as some would like to think...
You can ask any of the Hyundai owners out there, although it has a 10yr/100000 mile warranty, here's what i've gathered from previous owners.
Although you have this long assed warranty, after a little bit, having to go into the dealership every couple of months starts to become a PITA. After a while, you just feel like selling it. Once you sell the car, over half of that 100,000 mile warranty is not transferrable. So it's more of a gimmick if you ask me.
Same goes for the BMW ratings on that webpage, it's still only for cars that are under a year old. Check out the numerous problems i had with my brand new 5 series. The problems didn't come out until the car was well broken in about a year later.
05-21-2005, 01:38 PM
#30
Drifting
Originally Posted by Saintor
I disagree on the "unreliable" aspect. After all, BMW won the second spot in J.D. Powers initial quality survey, just behind Lexus. And Acura was ranked average.
Pricey? yes. A white 325i with sunroof and sport package would be at 45700$CAD compared to 36100$ for the TSX. No leather or electrical seats. Metallic paint would be a 800$ option. Against a 43100$ TL 6 sp. it might have a case.
Pricey? yes. A white 325i with sunroof and sport package would be at 45700$CAD compared to 36100$ for the TSX. No leather or electrical seats. Metallic paint would be a 800$ option. Against a 43100$ TL 6 sp. it might have a case.
You say BMW won the 2nd spot? I believe kia or Hyundai won the first spot.
Dont tell me that you believe that Korean brands actually have the #1 in quality ratings throughout all the brands.
My friend had a Korean brand car and it was all fine and dandy for the first year or so, then a little later, everything literally just about went out at once. Month after month, there were appointments after appointments at the dealership. After a while, he just decided to sell it. Then all of the sudden his 10yr 100000 mile warranty was non transferrable to the new owner. Part of it is, but i believe it's only less than half.
05-21-2005, 05:38 PM
#31
7th Gear
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Age: 80
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Measuring reliability is not an exact science...
[QUOTE=sauceman re European vs. Japanses cars] You seem to be right about this. This site is pointing your way: http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/ca...28339010848601
The Reliability Index from the UK is an attempt at being reasonably precise because (if you read the fine print) it incorporates both frequency of repair and tracks the cost of an average repair. That's good, but the index doesn't appear to weight repairs by severity.
Consumers Reports calculates its *overall* reliability by weighting for engine and tranmission problems more heavily than it weights trim problems, on the sensible basis that loose trim won't maroon you at the side of the road. But it fails to track repair costs, a serious flaw which makes the CR data Not Acceptable IMHO. And it says nothing about the frequency or cost of routine maintenance. The cost of replacing front brake pads on a VW/Audi is twice what it is on a Honda/Acura because the VW's rotors have to be replaced at the same time.
A good index would track the "total cost of ownership" or at least the total cost of routine maintenance and repairs, and it would have a large enough sample to be statistically valid. It would also have some sort of weighting for severity of repair, like CR currently does.
Maybe someone does that for the car makers, but there's no published index of that sort, as far as I know. Based on posts on the Consumers Reports forum, CR is apparently thinking about it, although it would take time to build and would cost them some money.
Do your part -- encourage CR to do this work!
The Reliability Index from the UK is an attempt at being reasonably precise because (if you read the fine print) it incorporates both frequency of repair and tracks the cost of an average repair. That's good, but the index doesn't appear to weight repairs by severity.
Consumers Reports calculates its *overall* reliability by weighting for engine and tranmission problems more heavily than it weights trim problems, on the sensible basis that loose trim won't maroon you at the side of the road. But it fails to track repair costs, a serious flaw which makes the CR data Not Acceptable
IMHO. And it says nothing about the frequency or cost of routine maintenance. The cost of replacing front brake pads on a VW/Audi is twice what it is on a Honda/Acura because the VW's rotors have to be replaced at the same time.A good index would track the "total cost of ownership" or at least the total cost of routine maintenance and repairs, and it would have a large enough sample to be statistically valid. It would also have some sort of weighting for severity of repair, like CR currently does.
Maybe someone does that for the car makers, but there's no published index of that sort, as far as I know. Based on posts on the Consumers Reports forum, CR is apparently thinking about it, although it would take time to build and would cost them some money.
Do your part -- encourage CR to do this work!
06-09-2005, 06:24 PM
#32
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SC
Age: 57
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=msandman]
Total cost of ownership = intellichoice.com or their new magazine
5 year ownership cost TSX MT = $32673 BMW 325 (E46) =$33791
Include depreciation, financing, insurance, state fees, fuel, maintenance and repairs. The fact the 325 gets maintenance included in initial price for 50K of the 70K they project over the 5 years helsp it considerably.
Vandy
Originally Posted by sauceman re European vs. Japanses cars
You seem to be right about this. This site is pointing your way: http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/ca...28339010848601
The Reliability Index from the UK is an attempt at being reasonably precise because (if you read the fine print) it incorporates both frequency of repair and tracks the cost of an average repair. That's good, but the index doesn't appear to weight repairs by severity.
Consumers Reports calculates its *overall* reliability by weighting for engine and tranmission problems more heavily than it weights trim problems, on the sensible basis that loose trim won't maroon you at the side of the road. But it fails to track repair costs, a serious flaw which makes the CR data Not Acceptable IMHO. And it says nothing about the frequency or cost of routine maintenance. The cost of replacing front brake pads on a VW/Audi is twice what it is on a Honda/Acura because the VW's rotors have to be replaced at the same time.
A good index would track the "total cost of ownership" or at least the total cost of routine maintenance and repairs, and it would have a large enough sample to be statistically valid. It would also have some sort of weighting for severity of repair, like CR currently does.
Maybe someone does that for the car makers, but there's no published index of that sort, as far as I know. Based on posts on the Consumers Reports forum, CR is apparently thinking about it, although it would take time to build and would cost them some money.
Do your part -- encourage CR to do this work!
The Reliability Index from the UK is an attempt at being reasonably precise because (if you read the fine print) it incorporates both frequency of repair and tracks the cost of an average repair. That's good, but the index doesn't appear to weight repairs by severity.
Consumers Reports calculates its *overall* reliability by weighting for engine and tranmission problems more heavily than it weights trim problems, on the sensible basis that loose trim won't maroon you at the side of the road. But it fails to track repair costs, a serious flaw which makes the CR data Not Acceptable
IMHO. And it says nothing about the frequency or cost of routine maintenance. The cost of replacing front brake pads on a VW/Audi is twice what it is on a Honda/Acura because the VW's rotors have to be replaced at the same time.A good index would track the "total cost of ownership" or at least the total cost of routine maintenance and repairs, and it would have a large enough sample to be statistically valid. It would also have some sort of weighting for severity of repair, like CR currently does.
Maybe someone does that for the car makers, but there's no published index of that sort, as far as I know. Based on posts on the Consumers Reports forum, CR is apparently thinking about it, although it would take time to build and would cost them some money.
Do your part -- encourage CR to do this work!
5 year ownership cost TSX MT = $32673 BMW 325 (E46) =$33791
Include depreciation, financing, insurance, state fees, fuel, maintenance and repairs. The fact the 325 gets maintenance included in initial price for 50K of the 70K they project over the 5 years helsp it considerably.
Vandy
06-10-2005, 10:35 AM
#36
I love it when trolls get 
Honestly, the BMWs are way too expensive for what they are. They are nice cars, but with their horrid interiors and Bangle-ized exteriors, spotty reliability records, and substantially higher price, they really don't look that appealing to me...
06-10-2005, 10:54 AM
#37
VSA Rocks
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by swami
I scoped one out today, a white 330i. Things pretty sweet, which surprised me, as I didn't like the pics I've seen. I honestly don't really need a sedan, and for the money, I'm leaning G35 Coupe. Oh well, I have another year on the TSX lease to decide. Hmmm...G35 Coupe, Tl, 330i, who knows, maybe a certified pre-owned 05 RL may creep into the picture by then. All I know is I have a year from July to decide. I gotta go check out some more cars.
I've got to say that the 330i was the most impressive out of my considerations from a driving perspective. It handled and drove better than all I test drove including the G35.
If 4-doors are not a necessity, ever consider a used E46 M3?
Back on topic: The 325i is VERY nice and probaly out handles, accelerates, and out-everything the TSX does driving-wise. However, being a design engineer, I would NEVER buy a 1st year model anything. Wait for BMW to work out some bugs and design flaws. After that, come up with an additional 7k-10k for the pricetag.
06-10-2005, 11:16 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
Everyones talking about a bangle-ized 3er...however, Bangle designed the beloved E46 and M3 that you all love.
Personally, I used hate the new E90. However, I saw one next to a E46 and relized the E46 looks so dated! My beloved E46...the car which I thought looked timeless....looked dated to me. Only a genious like bangle could do that. Dam him....and the Z4 too.
Personally, I used hate the new E90. However, I saw one next to a E46 and relized the E46 looks so dated! My beloved E46...the car which I thought looked timeless....looked dated to me. Only a genious like bangle could do that. Dam him....and the Z4 too.
06-10-2005, 11:18 AM
#39
My Garage
I'll admit I prefer the E46 to the TSX, but the E90 is just not good looking to me. I'm not paying an extra 7-10K for a less reliable car just because it has those 3 letters
06-10-2005, 11:20 AM
#40
Banned
Honestly, the BMWs are way too expensive for what they are.