92Integra04or05TSX

Hi,

Been quietly reading the posts for more than a year and am grateful for all the useful info. Got THE call from my dealer today that my '05 CG/Ebony/6MT/Navi car is in, but the salesperson insists that MA law requires that the invoice include the $200 advertising fee. I'm less than thrilled. Anyone know about how dealers in MA handle the advertising fee? I need to call the dealer tonight to finalize the arrangements, so I'd really appreciate any advice ASAP. Thanks.

Jim Holloman

I am not a lawyer, and I do not live in MA, but I have never heard of any law, in any state, that REQUIRED the customer to pay an advertising fee. If that is true, then, IMO, the state has truly stepped crossed the line. Advertising fees are simply a cost of doing business and is no business of the state, county, city, PJ, or any other government entity. It sounds to me like the dealer is just wanting to add profit buy calling it something else.

Option 1:
Ask the salesperson to quote you the code (the state stature, aka black letter law). Then, with or without the code, go online and see if you can find the state statues online. They will most likely be under a .gov domain. Do a search on "advertising" and "advertising fee". If you cannot find the code, then dispute the salesman claim and say that you will not pay the fee unless he can prove to you that it applies.

Option 2:
Tell the salesperson that you have a policy of not paying advertising fees. But, you will make an exception in this case if the dealer will reduce the selling price by an equal amount.

Option 3 (this may, or may not, be an option):
Tell the dealer you will have to reconsider your purchase decision based upon the advertising fee and then go online and request price quotes to the extent that dealers in your area participate. I did this with Pontiac and got a quote thousands of dollars less than the quote from the salesman. Some dealers now have an "Internet" salesperson -- and they presume that they are up against other dealers when you go that route.

And remember, as long as you have the funds, and the dealer has the car, you have the advantage in negotiating as long as you are reasonable and within the parameters of the dealer -- as generally determined by supply and demand as well as operating margins. If someone else wants the car, and is willing to pay the advertising fee without squabble, then you will probably not get the car.

92Integra04or05TSX

Thanks for the advice, Jim. I just spoke to the dealer and used a variation of Option 2. I told them I hadn't counted on the advertising fee being part of the invoice and really didn't want to pay the fee, plus I mentioned that I knew someone had gotten a slightly better deal there. To make me happy, they agreed to deduct $200 from the deal. I'm going tomorrow to finalize everything, and I'll be picking up the car Thursday afternoon. Thanks again for taking the time to respond so quickly.

Jim Holloman

You are welcomed.

The first question I asked the dealer is what fees apply to a purchase transaction; with pen and paper in hand. So, I had that issued resolved before I even looked at a car. If I thought that I might have a problem later on, I would have asked the salesman to initial the list.

And, before I test drove a TSX, I said, "Most people are paying about a thousand dollars under MSRP for this car". That resolved the issue of how much I would pay for the car.

One Mazda dealer in the area adds a $795.00 "protection package" to every new car on the lot. I would likely tell the dealer that I wanted one without the "protection package"; even if it had to be ordered.

Some salesman do not want to discuss cost until after you experience the joy of driving a new car. But, I believe it is best to determine the sales price, with all fees included, before hand; sort of like not going to the grocery store when one is ready to eat.

anopholes

Advertising/documentation/prep costs are dealer markup. Often its set up to reduce the commissionable price of the car - the amount of the car that the salesperson gets to calculate their commission on. So the dealership gets a guaranteed profit and the salesperson has that much more incentive to get a higher selling price. Like almost every business, its much more profitable to own a dealership than work in one.

Advertising fees are the collective amounts the dealers in a region pay to run the car commericals/print ads in a media market where there are several dealers. The car company usually matches some percentage of the dealer contribution.

They might as well charge you a light fee for keeping all the bright lights on or a carpeting and tile fee.... Advertising, prep, documentation are the cost of doing business.

redpaul

WARNING WILL ROBINSON, EXTREME DANGER!

Several car deals ago, I got hit with a "documetation fee" of $50 when I objected they threw it out. Then when when I am sitting there signing the final paperwork, there it was again. I signed because I wanted the car so bad, right now. Since I have resolved to get up and walk away.

Just warning that they might try to sneak it in at the final closing. Bewared from my experience and avoid the same mistake.

Montag

Yep, that's how they do it. They congratulate you on the purchase of your fine new car, shake your hand and pretty soon they see the trickle of saliva from the corner of your mouth...they know what you're thinking: I'm this close to having a new car! Then they slip in some unannounced fee for something and they know you don't want to haggle any more, you just want to get it over with and get into that car. Besides, it's only a couple hundred bucks. You're spending thousands. It's not worth fighting over, right? They know you'll sign almost anything at that point.

I have no problem with the give and take of negotiations and I realize that the dealership has to make a profit. But dirty tricks like this burn me. Years ago, a salesman tried to hit me for a $129 "transaction fee"- after we had agreed on a price. When I objected, he said the fee was non-negotiable. I really wanted that car but I walked out. He called me the next day and said his boss agreed to waive the fee.

nmehta211

The worst part about it is the fact that in CT, you pay sales tax on THEIR documentation fee.

What i did was negotiate based on the out the door price, including dest. charge, price of car, sales tax, and any "yo-mama-so fat fees" dealers charge. I then used that for direct comparision/bargaining with about 20 CT, MA, NH, RI and NY dealers. In the end, i got the car at invoice price.

redpaul

I have used the Consumer Reports report on the dealer cost and MSRP of the car and various accessories. They list any current "hold backs" "dealer incentives", "promotion bonus" etc. the dealer will recieve. So you go to this knife fight at least armed with knowledge. Cost is about $13.

With the TSX purchase I added what I thought was an acceptable profit of 4% and that was my starting price for negociation. I decied on my maximum price I'd pay in advance, about 8%. I emailed 5 dealers with my starting price for a specific car (6MT, Navi CG). Two ignored me. One responded with a snide "We want to do business, but we want to do smart business and this isn't smart." Another responded with fully loaded car -- all weather matts, mud flaps, tea service for 4 etc. all at "Invoice". The last offered the exact car, at 8% over cost, and claimed to be a "no negociation" dealership.

I bought that car at the quoted price. During the whole deal I was expecting something -- bait and switch, added costs. Nothing-- they kept their word (naturally I will be back). I paid the usual TT&L, but I had that figured too.

I will never buy another car without the Consumer's Report pricing info.