majormojo

Hi Everyone,

I've made a few posts here already, but I thought I'd formally introduce myself by writing about how I came to pick a TSX for my new car. I evaluated the car in a context that's a bit different than what a lot of people seemed to use. That is, I wasn't specifically looking for a "sports sedan" as such, I was looking for a practical family car with personality and that's fun to drive.

So, first the background. Current autos in the stable are:

- 93 Chev Suburban
- 89 Honda Accord EX-i sedan (5MT)
- 63 Mercury Comet S-22 Convertible

The Suburban is what it is, no need to go into that here. The Accord is/was my daily driver and our primary family car for the past 12 yrs. It has 304,000km on it and runs reliably but looks like crap w/ lots of rust and dents etc. Still fun to drive, though the 1-2 shift is kinda notchy now, the A/C is kaput and front bumper cover is held on with some strong bailing wire. It's OK around town, but we don't really trust it for long trips any more. The Comet is mint, original and only driven on sunny Sundays in the summer.

My wife's new job requires her to make a 520km drive once a week, which is what really prompted us to look for a new car. We want something safe and reliable that's also somewhat fuel-efficient (almost anything is better than the 'burby!) and fun to drive. We're not as cash-strapped as we once were, so something with a little panache would be nice too. However, I'm a cheapskate (something about Scottish ancestors...) and I want real value as well.

Initially our short list for new cars looked like this:

- Honda Accord EX-L or EX-V6
- Mazda 6 GT
- Nissan Altima 3.5SE
- Toyota Camry

The typical mainstream Japanese-brand mid-size sedans. During our investigative phase I also added the TSX and BMW 3 series. Though given the price range of what we were planning to spend, I figured I'd probably have to settle for a 1 or 2 yr old BMW instead of new. We're planning to keep the new car at least 10 yrs, so leasing isn't in the picture at all. We're not after a specific monthly payment, but a long-term value.

Then came the test-driving phase. Since my wife would be driving the car a lot, I wanted her to be really involved in the buying process as well. While she's not enthusiastic about cars the way I am, she can drive a stick with ease and in fact prefers it to an AT. We've always had at least one MT vehicle in the family fleet. The only AT vehicle on the short list was the Accord EX-v6 and it was there as the obvious default - it's the top of the line Accord like our EX-i was when we bought it and we've been really happy with that car. We've also owned a Civic in that past and liked that car too.

The question for us was whether we'd be willing to live with an AT to get the rest of the goodness of the EX-v6. After driving it, the answer unfortunately was "No" and the EX-L 4cyl 5MT just felt kind of lame to us, even in comparison to the 2.0 in our current Accord. So, all the good and even great things about the Accord aside, it just wasn't the car for us and we watched its taillights as it drove off our list. Too bad that car definitely looks better coming than going...

We actually never got as far as test driving with the Camry or Altima once we got to see the cars in person - the Camry was too dull and the colour choices were lame. As I posted in another thread, my wife's comment was that the Camry was "an old man's car and we're not that old yet!". The Altima interior, though spacious, was plasticky and ugly and it really wouldn't have mattered how nice it drove because we hated being inside it. I didn't care for the "boy-racer" taillights either.

We drove a 2002? BMW 325i and it was indeed a very nice car to drive. But it felt small and cramped compared to the others, didn't have a fold-down back seat and of course already had a few thousand miles on it. The other hesitation I had was with the overall cost of maintenance for the BMW. Not that I think it's a great deal more prone to failure than any of the others (maybe a little), but it certainly would cost more for the regular maintenance over a long period of ownership. Given that the 3 already meant compromises in practicality, it just didn't seem worth the extra money to us. Oh yeah, and snow on the ground is a real possibility here for 6 months a year, so that kind of sealed it. No BMW for us.

One of my wife's work colleagues has a TL and encouraged us to check it out. They're going for good discounts now so we took a TL Type-S for a drive. Nice car, but a bit heavy feeling and styled a bit too conservatively. I wasn't keen on the four-year old design and the fact that it will be replaced with a much different looking car RSN. So we passed on that. If we had to be a one-car family, the TL would rate higher, as it seemed very Practical, Secure and Durable, just not very Fun due to the fatal lack of a true MT.

For kicks, we also drove an Acura 1.7EL 5MT (EL is an Acura-ified Civic only available in Canada). Definitely the best Civic sedan Honda's ever built, much quieter and more powerful than our friends' 2003 Civic sedan which I've driven a number of times. But still a bit noisy on the highway and didn't feel nearly as secure or refined as the TSX. Given the smaller size, fewer safety features and amount of highway driving the new car would be used for, it didn't seem like a great bargain even though it was more than $10K less than the TSX.

So what's left? The Mazda 6 GT 5MT and the TSX 6MT. This is where things got really hard. We liked them both a lot, and there's only maybe $2K-4K separating them. We went back and took long second drives in both of them. I'll probably post a more complete comparison elsewhere, but the bottom line for us is that we could no doubt be happy for a long time with either car. I've had two Mazda vehicles in the past (a B2000 pickup and an RX-7) and I'm comfortable with Mazda's reliability and durability. The differences came down to a lot of somewhat intangible things, like "feel", "atmosphere", "ambiance", and "detail". Didn't help that the Mazda dealers we visited were staffed by twits, though. Not that I'd let that prevent me from buying the right car, but it sure didn't help.

In the end, the TSX had a noticeably greater feeling of precision, attention to detail and quality. The 6MT is thoroughly and completely addicting. Everything else I drove felt like stirring a stick in mud by comparison. It was also the most expensive of all the cars we seriously considered. So for us it was a case of deciding to "spend a little more, get a little more" relative to everything else on our list. I think the car offers real value and is blast to drive. Relative rarity is a plus too. I hope it doesn't bite us down the road wrt to parts availability...

At first I had a hard time justifying the price for a 4 cyl car, but actually driving it changed my mind. The engine has terrific balance and even though other cars like the Mazda 6 do have more low-end torque, it's not always easy to take advantage of it because the gearing ratios used in the 5-spds are taller. For ATs it's less of an issue, but an AT wasn't an option for other reasons. But what really sold me on the strength of the TSX's four is when my wife accidentally did a start from standstill in 3rd instead of 1st the first time we drove it. No chugging or lugging, it just got up and went. Very impressive. I know for sure that would have stalled the 2.0 in our Accord.

Though we'd looked at a BMW, we really weren't cross-shopping "near-lux sports sedans" in the way that it seems a lot of people do. IMO, I think Acura marketing is missing out by focussing only on that segment and not marketing to others like us - we need a 4-door family sedan, but we're not "old" yet and we're willing to pay a bit more to get something that has some kick to it and isn't ho-hum mainstream boring. TSX fits the bill perfectly. The fact that the people we dealt with at Acura dealers were helpful, courteous and efficient was just bonus.

As long-winded as it is, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Cheers,

sauceman

Nice write-up, majormojo, I always enjoy reading about why we buy our TSXs. By the way, congrads on the purchase.

Brad

First of all, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your message!

I'm a "California boy" who might be lucky to get rain here and there in a four month period, so please understand my ignorance about snow--that cold white icey stuff on the ground that we see in movies and pictures.

And you get six months of snow?! In what part of Canada are you?

Anyway, my question: Why would snow make any difference for any of the cars you have been considering. Are BMWs a particular problem in snow any more or less than the others? (I have seen some rusty BMWs in the parking lot at work, so are they more rust prone? Is that the concern? I've seen other BMWs with badly oxidized paint on the roof and trunk. Perhaps that contributes to the rust?)

sauceman

No matter what some will say, rear-wheel drive cars are more difficult to drive in snow, especially when starting from a standing still, there just isn't enough weight on the back axle to give it enough traction.

It is the opposite of dry pavement conditions. Narrower tires, as well as FWD or better yet, AWD is better for traction.

majormojo

I'm in Edmonton, Alberta. 6 months of continuous snow is not a certainty here, but no one who lives here should be surprised to see snow on the ground any time between Nov and Apr. The BMW isn't really a problem more than any other car in snow; it's mostly a FWD/RWD thing, plus "the other guy". I'll explain.

I don't believe that FWD is fundamentally better than RWD for driving in snow (besides, that's another thread). It's all about F/R weight balance and given good snow tires all round (a necessity, I say) there's nothing inherently "wrong" with RWD in snow. My Suburban is RWD and does just fine in winter and so have other RWD cars I've owned. The BMW has near perfect 50/50 weight balance, so no problem there.

Further, IMO, the "advantage" of FWD in snow is mostly wrt forward acceleration, not braking or steering. 60/40 F/R weight balance works for you when accelerating, against you when braking or cornering. Nobody gets in accidents in the winter because they can't accelerate fast enough, they get in accidents because they can't stop fast enough or can't steer around something. But being able to start up easily from a stop while the pickup truck next to you slips sideways does inspire a feeling of confidence and safety.

Then there's "the other guy". Driving in snowy conditions increases your chances of being in an accident, even one that's not your fault. The BMW is a fine car but would be costlier to insure and repair if damaged. That's all. One could counter-argue that it's a safer car to be in if you're hit hard. Perhaps. I hope I never find out.

The other factor is that my wife prefers the feeling of FWD understeering vs. the RWD "tail-happy" feeling on slippery roads. It's mostly a conditioning thing, she's used to FWD cars and I'll admit that understeer has a safer, more predictable feel to it. Especially if you've never spent any time sliding around corners with the back end hanging out and controlling the turn/slide with the throttle which I have and she hasn't.

I hope that explains it. It's not an inherent limitation in the BMW or any RWD car, its more a personal preference of the other main driver of the car. Others who drive in winter conditions a lot can probably relate.

rb4580

That was the longest Post I've ever read in my entire life! Congrats on your TSX

lshenretty

Ahhh. Another write-up to keep me from buying another car over the weekend while I wait (endlessly) for my TSX.

Good stuff, majormojo.

And good explanation of the FWD/RWD thing. I've driven both. Always thought the FWD was hands-down better in snow, at least starting, until I had a RWD with traction control. The car mags say FWD, especially with traction control, is significantly better than RWD with traction control, but my 528i seemed just fine in the snow.

Thanks for the energy it took to write it. We appreciate it.

larchmont

Great post. I didn't have any trouble staying with it till the end either!

I loved how logical and systematic your process was.

rzee

majormojo, you are now my new hero, please teach me how to write long posts that people actually read. People don't seem to like some of my long IBTL posts.

Oh btw, congrats!!

AdamC

Thanks for sharing your car shopping experience.
I enjoyed reading it simply because it's all so true.
Here's my fav...

lshenretty

Reminds me - the longest almost non-stop drive I took was in the summer of 76. Visited the Canadian Rockies. Spectacular place to drive. Ended up in Edmonton. Drove back to Columbus - 2200 miles in 44 hours. Drove all but about 45 minutes when my wife drove and another 40 minutes when I tried to sleep at a rest stop.

Why? Who knows? Had the idea that once I was out of the mountains in Montana, there wasn't much to see - might as well keep going. Didn't have a lot of money for hotels then. Guess that contributed.

Stupid stuff. Stupid. Coulda killed somebody in the last 24 hours or so. Felt very weird by the time I got home.

While we were there, though, spent one night sleeping in the back of the Saab 99 in a park ..... near Jasper, I think. Big bear.... BIG BEAR ..... got into our cooler while we were sleeping. Woke up to the smell of him and his hmphhhing around tearing our cooler apart. He looked as big as the car. Made noise to scare him away, AND HE DIDN'T CARE. Kept thinking about how to get all the stuff out of the front seat so I could drive away. He eventually got bored with the traces of fat in the bacon package and left - so I was able to change my underwear.

But Canada. Oh, Canada. Yep. Loved it.

Jason

Nice write-up mojo. Definitely the longest post I've ever seen, but I read the whole thing. Good job.

majormojo

Thanks for the kind words, those of you with the patience to actually finish reading the Great Acurian Novel....

larchmont, despite the apparent logic involved, I think I knew which car we were going to get about 1/2 way through the first drive of the TSX - where we'd normally switch drivers. Wife drove first, and *really* didn't want to give up the wheel. Back at the dealer, she wouldn't get out. Said to me "I want this one. Go inside and buy it now." Did wonders for my negotiating ability...

rzee, I don't know what IBLT means... duh.

Ishenretty, Jasper and the Canadian Rockies do offer some great driving routes. The main problem is that the scenery can be so distracting, it's hard to keep track of the road. Nice problem to have. The bears, yeah, we like to grow 'em big up here.

I spent the month of June driving around the Yukon & Alaska - as 'footloose and fancy-free' as one can be driving a Suburban w/ 2 kids, 2 dogs and towing a travel trailer. About 8000km in total (Thank God for DVD!) and we saw LOTS of bears - we lost count after a dozen or so. If you ever get the urge for another road trip up north, the Top of the World Highway from Tok, Alaska to Dawson City, Yukon is not to be missed. And if you go in June like we did, you pretty much have 24hrs of daylight, which ought to suit your driving habits. 8-)

Jason

I know the feeling. About 30 seconds (literally) into my test drive I said to the salesman: "Yeah I like this car. I'm going to buy it."

larchmont

Me2, for a slightly different reason. From my "research" (meaning mostly what I had read on our "old site"), I already thought I had a very good idea of the car. And I needed only about 15 seconds (truly) to confirm that it was right. Really, basically as soon as I pulled out of the lot. I remember the moment vividly. Even though it was basically what I expected, I was in awe.

Jason

Exactly Larch. I was able to make the decision that quickly because of all the research and chat on the forums prior to the test drive. I knew more on paper than the salesman.

majormojo

The thing that tipped it for me (remember I was really close on the Mazda 6) was the turn signal stalk. It was at the right distance from the steering wheel so that I could reach it w/out moving my left hand from its natural position on the wheel. On the Mazda, it was about 1.5-2.0 cm further away and I had to move my hand to reach it. That and the fact that the door panel on the TSX was padded perf leather and the 6 was hard molded plastic that only looked like the perf leather (the bony part of my elbow could tell the diff).

Those sound like really small things, but I figured if Mazda has cut corners on the things that I can actually see and feel on the car, what corners have they cut on the things I can't? It was that level of attention to detail that sold me on the TSX. And did I mention the really sweet 6MT?

dabuda

nice post...that was the longest post i read completely without losing any interest

congrats on the TSX as well!!!