MT vs AT.......On the Highway
#1
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
MT vs AT.......On the Highway
Ok, we know that the MT is quicker than the AT in acceleration mainly because of its superior gear ratio's and I guess the added gear. But, what would happen on a rolll from say 40 or 50 on the highway when the advantages of the tranny don't come into play as much and the weight difference isn't as prominent? Can the AT hang? or could it be even quicker?
Here are the gear ratios again in case anyone forgot. I have no clue what they mean and how they effect each car so I'm hoping someone can clarify how they affect highway situations.
Gear Ratios
TSX Automatic
1st - 2.652
2nd - 1.517
3rd - 1.082
4th - 0.773
5th - 0.566
FD - 4.440
TSX Manual
1st - 3.267
2nd - 1.880
3rd - 1.355
4th - 1.028
5th - 0.825
6th - 0.659
FD - 4.760
I only bring this up because I rarely take my AT TSX on the highway. I had a chance to this morning and IMO its a completely different beast once rolling. I'm thinking that when the designer of the TSX's K24 said he was most proud of this engine he was specifically reffering to its performace already at speed. Its damn impressive.
BTW - my cars turns at 3400RPM while in 5th @ 160km/hr (100 MPH)
Here are the gear ratios again in case anyone forgot. I have no clue what they mean and how they effect each car so I'm hoping someone can clarify how they affect highway situations.
Gear Ratios
TSX Automatic
1st - 2.652
2nd - 1.517
3rd - 1.082
4th - 0.773
5th - 0.566
FD - 4.440
TSX Manual
1st - 3.267
2nd - 1.880
3rd - 1.355
4th - 1.028
5th - 0.825
6th - 0.659
FD - 4.760
I only bring this up because I rarely take my AT TSX on the highway. I had a chance to this morning and IMO its a completely different beast once rolling. I'm thinking that when the designer of the TSX's K24 said he was most proud of this engine he was specifically reffering to its performace already at speed. Its damn impressive.
BTW - my cars turns at 3400RPM while in 5th @ 160km/hr (100 MPH)
#2
Photography Nerd
The AT is a great choice for people cruising on the highway because the lower gearing lends to a much more relaxed environment. The 6MT will have stronger passing power at the expense of more engine noise. As I remember in 6th gear it will pull away from a TL purely because of gearing.
#3
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
So if we're both rolling at 50 side by side and punch it the MT will still walk?
Dan, we'll have to test this after we install the intakes.
Check out this thread from Tinky. I timed his runs at under 8 sec. Can you give it a try?
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10896
Dan, we'll have to test this after we install the intakes.
Check out this thread from Tinky. I timed his runs at under 8 sec. Can you give it a try?
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10896
#4
Photography Nerd
My work box doesn't like his video for some reason. I'll have to watch it at home.
If you left your car in 5th and I had mine in 6th and we punched it from say 100 km/h I'm pretty sure the 6mt would walk away. The 5at should have a higher maximum speed (I don't think we'll test that) but the 6mt will have better acceleration. I welcome the challenge though!
If you left your car in 5th and I had mine in 6th and we punched it from say 100 km/h I'm pretty sure the 6mt would walk away. The 5at should have a higher maximum speed (I don't think we'll test that) but the 6mt will have better acceleration. I welcome the challenge though!
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#5
Man it walks and talks. Even in 6th.
I had an auto Aurora with a 4.0 liter DOHC V8 spitting out 250hp and 285fp @4000. Thing was in top ten (in its day) 50-70 passing times. TSX just as good if not better.
I had an auto Aurora with a 4.0 liter DOHC V8 spitting out 250hp and 285fp @4000. Thing was in top ten (in its day) 50-70 passing times. TSX just as good if not better.
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#8
Originally Posted by jlukja
The advantage of the AT, though, is that if you're at speed and then punch it, it will drop down a gear or two (unless you're cruising in SS).
However, if the MT driver downshifts to the appropriate gear prior to the punch, it will smoke the AT no matter what gear the AT chooses.
#9
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I think we are talking like top gear passing here ... I always really didn't understand that though. Put me in the camp where 6th is an overdrive gear with zero power. Are we really that lazy where we can shift? That's what the 5AT is for
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#10
Originally Posted by provench
....Put me in the camp where 6th is an overdrive gear with zero power. Are we really that lazy where we can shift? That's what the 5AT is for
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
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#11
Originally Posted by rb1
Yes, if both cars just punch it, the AT will smoke the MT because of the downshift.
However, if the MT driver downshifts to the appropriate gear prior to the punch, it will smoke the AT no matter what gear the AT chooses.
However, if the MT driver downshifts to the appropriate gear prior to the punch, it will smoke the AT no matter what gear the AT chooses.
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#19
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by TinkySD
I think my little unscientific video has given domn too much faith in his AT
.... I mean AT powa' all the way!
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
I know I'm gonna lose, but I wanna see how badly. I don't think the gap is all that much once both are at speed.
And was'nt it Kurt Bradley who said (or maybe it was someone else who works at a dealer) that claimed the AT caught up and passed a MT at higher speeds? Anyone remember this?
Either way though it will give us some great info. Its research really.
Now we have to figure out where Dan?
domn, who feels MT TSX drivers think their all that
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#24
Photography Nerd
Ok so who's going to be the bookie so we can place our bets? ![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I'll tell you what domn, fdl can ride in my back seat to video tape the event because I wouldn't want the weight penalty to slow you down... :P
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I'll tell you what domn, fdl can ride in my back seat to video tape the event because I wouldn't want the weight penalty to slow you down... :P
#25
Photography Nerd
Originally Posted by ClutchPerformer
Prepare to be 0wn3d... (assuming Dan can drive) ![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
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#28
Originally Posted by provench
Put me in the camp where 6th is an overdrive gear with zero power. Are we really that lazy where we can shift? That's what the 5AT is for
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
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It's largely pointless (IMHO) to just add a 6th gear while leaving the other ratios alone.
On a related note, I only have a 5-speed, and my overall final drive (including wheel size) is slightly shorter than the TSX -- it turns 3100 RPM @ 70 mph. One benefit of having a not-so-tall top gear in combination with drive-by-wire is razor-accurate cruise control, even on fair-sized hills. Make your 6th gear too tall and you'd have to downshift to climb grades.
#29
Originally Posted by rb1
....It's largely pointless (IMHO) to just add a 6th gear while leaving the other ratios alone....
....Make your 6th gear too tall and you'd have to downshift to climb grades.
#30
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Originally Posted by rb1
On a related note, I only have a 5-speed, and my overall final drive (including wheel size) is slightly shorter than the TSX -- it turns 3100 RPM @ 70 mph. One benefit of having a not-so-tall top gear in combination with drive-by-wire is razor-accurate cruise control, even on fair-sized hills. Make your 6th gear too tall and you'd have to downshift to climb grades.
Guys, there is a track in Blainville just north of Montreal that Transport Canada uses to test cars and various things as well. This track will accept speeds of well over 250kph. If I tried to arrange to get access to the track, would anyone be willing to come out and test their cars?
#31
Originally Posted by ClutchPerformer
Not pointless from a gas mileage standpoint.
Let's say for argument sake we split the difference and shorten the MT by 12% or so, bringing down the RPM at 70 mph from say 3000ish (I don't have one, this is an educated guess) down to 2650 or so. If you extrapolate the numbers this might add a wee bit over 1 mpg to your EPA rating, but the car would be much less responsive and sensitive to loads (extra passengers, luggage, A/C). No thanks.
(Note also the torque converter lockup eliminate most of the efficiency disadvantage of the AT when cruising, just in case someone was going to say the MT would do significantly better on the highway mileage-wise with the same gearing)
Historical note: The first generation Integra turned 3750 RPM @ 70 mph in top gear, or almost 3000 RPM @ 55 mph
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