dom

From Canadiandriver.com. 93-Kewl will love this. It may not be direct competition for the TSX in terms of size and powertrain but it will most likely be the same price as a TSX.

bowersan

Bah. Still a Saab. And, to make matters worse, a saab hatchback.

J.

dom

Not really, this will be a Japanese Saab, which really can't be a bad thing. Looking at this from a Canadian perspective, it will still be too much to buy. A WRX is already $34,995 to the TSX's $34,800. I'm guessing this 9-2 will come in at about 40K. But I bet the prices in the US will be almost identical.

fdl

I always thought the WRX was ugly. Put the WRX performance in a nice saab package, give it a little more luxury and I think there is potential for a really nice car.

freeride149

price wise, it may be a "competition," but really, tsx = fwd, 9-2 = awd... size will be slightly smaller, too. design, ride quality, etc... all in a different category. i dunno why saab's going with a WRX based car, but i do know a lot of people looking for a performance sedan (like evo, wrx) wants more lux in their cars... they have a picture of it on saabusa.com.

the new S40 will be more of a competition, but who cares? people buy sports sedans according to their taste... i don't think there's much "competition" at all.

TinkySD

it will be interesting to see the stats when they come out. if they lux it up it will probably weight 3400lbs+

ClutchPerformer

Wow. The WRX costs more than the TSX in Canada, eh? (sorry ) Down here, the WRX is about $2k less ($25k vs $27k, which is why I considered it).

That Saab version looks nice. If it performs like the Subie, they'll have a great car.

TinkySD

it should be really interestin gto see how it stacks up performance wise. Figure it will weight 200lbs more over the wrx wagons 3165 and have heavier 17" wheels and tires. Should still perform well but the discrepancy will be interesting to note.

Bilybobjef

Damn had that car been out I would have heavily considered it against the TSX. I love AWD and Turbo and the whole reason I didn't go with a rex is because its not luxurious enough. This 9-2x will be some good competition for the 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Turbo.

freeride149

why would 9-2 be competing with new Legacy's? it's based on WRX, meaning it'll be the same size as WRX's... Legacy's bigger... i don't see why people considering a Legacy would consider getting a 9-2 when they already ruled out WRX.

WRX fully loaded go for about 30k... saab just might take some performance parts out so that they stay out of their current models' price range... so the performance might suffer...

hmm... if saab does well, (basically without GM calling all the shots), 9-2 might be able to perform just as well as S4's, with some lux.

bob shiftright

As a former two-time Saab owner, I'm sure this isn't necessarily a bad thing.



The original 9-2 concept. How close will the final product morph into the WRX?

There was talk of selling a rebadged Tahoe as a "Saab 9-7 SUV". Fortunately, that idea died on the vine.

dom

Have you looked at the pic in my post? Thats right from saabusa.com.

freeride149

9-7 will be the same as TrailBlazers, Envoys and Rainiers. They will be making those soon... though Saab will not be putting a turbo as of yet... To GM, Saab is just another way of sharing their platforms and making money. bastards.

ClutchPerformer

maybe as well as the old S4's (with the 2.7L biturbo). The new S4 will any Saab (or Subaru) on the planet.

Maxboost

Is it just me thinking that this is the worst move saab ever made? I mean many people buy saab cuz it's a saab none other like it. By doing this saab will lose its identity because Subaru is no Saab. The design won't be 100% saab. Ok, yes, you might gain some performance in your line up but still. People by saab not because of performance. they just do cause it's a Saab

bob shiftright

Yes. Is that a photograph of an actual car or an image?

I thought that if they weren't making money on Saab by now (and they're not) they were planning to ashcan the entire Swedish operation. Except, maybe, a design studio so they can still claim Swedish roots. Paint colors and upholstery fabric by Saab Design, maybe?

A Saab re-badged TrailBlazer...Erik Carlsson would turn over in his grave except he's still alive.

Junkster

Max, I also agree with your statements about the direction of the Saab line. Ever since Chevy aquired control of Saab, it has been nothing but downhill for the brand. First, there was the redesign of the 9-3, which shares a platform with the Chevy Malibu () and ditched the trademark hatchback setup. The car is still too soft in it's handling and not very exciting to drive. The 9-3 convertible hasn't improved any from the previous generation and is almost just a reskin.
Then we get this 9-2 idea, to basically allow Subaru to make a car for them. Sure, it will probably be a descent car at a descent entry level price, but it would come at the cost of destroying the brand's image. Saabs are suppose to be cars adapted for Scandinavian driving conditions, with great safety and luxury, not some cheap ripoff from Japan.
As for performance, I think Saab could use some more performance fire in the brand. The vector cars just are not cutting it.

Junkster, who loves to look of Saab 9-3 two door hatches from back in the day.

dom

The pic I posted is from the car that has recently appeared at the Tokyo auto show. I think there may be more pics at autoweek.com. I'll see if I can locate some more.

freeride149

it's not Saab's fault. GM's the evil hand behind this. See, GM owns, er controls Saab, and also controls Subaru. Subaru, if it was their call, wouldn't share WRX with Saab. Some GM dick thought it'd be cool to make a Saab version of the WRX... he'll get a raise, but he's still a dick.

darth62

Saab will probably impart it own unique identity to the Saabaru. And, it should be a good vehicle, because Subarus tend to hold up well and offer better than average performance.

Now, the Saab badged Trailblazer is another issue. Yeech.

Junkster

Actually GM doesn't control Subaru, but rather has a minority share in the company(I think it's like a third). Fuji Heavy Industries is the main controlling firm behind Subaru, but allows this in consideration with various joint ventures between the two companies. Now Saab, on the other hand, is under control of GM due to its majority ownership (the gov. of Sweden I think has a minority share in there).
I know, I'm just being picky.

Junkster, who wonders how either company would benefit in this deal.

Dan Martin

I haven't heard much about the reliability of the WRX. I'm assuming that no news is good news but how do they compare to the likes of Honda or Toyota?

Junkster

And speaking more generally on the issue of competition in the field of TSX, there are more players coming into the race aside from Saabaru .

For instance, BMW is readying the 1-series, which will be slotted as a sedan in it's initial launch. The size and driving experience will probably be similar to the 2002 or the early 3 series in the 80's.
Audi will be launching the A3 in the US starting next year. This model is already being sold in Europe and schedules to have a four door hatch in the lineup if US launch is successful.
Volvo has their revamped s40 which looks to have a base price of under 27K, which seems like it's definitely gunning for the TSX market. The R series will be following the initial launch.
Lexus will also have a redesigned IS in place in two years, which will probably be in the same target range as the TSX.

Truly, in the next two year, there will be a serious competition for the entry level luxury sedan market, with all the big players throwing their money into the projects.

Junkster, who drove a BMW 2002 once, and felt like he was driving a gocart.

ClutchPerformer

Good job on the Fuji Heavy Industries info (I didn't know GM owned a minority share!). I tried to get a job with Fuji one time....but that's another story. Anyway, Subaru benefits by selling their mechanicals to GM (they increase production). And GM benefits by having some effin' GREAT mechanicals to put under this new Saab. It's basic economics: Trade benefits both parties.

Iceman

I think you guys are nuts. The new Saab 9-3 is the first one I was seriously interested in since my beloved 99. I think you can blame Opel for the new Saab, not Chevy. Also, Subaru's may be good mechanically, but the WRX is a seriously ugly car. A European design with those mechanicals is a great idea!

freeride149

GM doesn't have "minority" share. they own 40 percent or somewhere around there. THE largest shareholder, as far as i know. Thus, the contract between Saab and Subaru is mostly influenced by GM's pressure on the management. think about it, GM just says "F*** you" and pulls out, Subaru just could go bankrupt. that's a big risk for Subaru. That's why they're forking over their precious WRX.
feel free to correct me where im wrong.

tsx-mdxman

The SAAB corporate news piece domn quoted in the first post in this thread says GM owns a 20% stake in Fuji industries. Personally, I think the 9-2, as shown, doesn't look too bad and might retain enough unique "SAABliness" to be a decent car. By producing it in Japan, they may be able to pack it with plenty of content and sell it at a reasonable price. That's something both GM (SAAB) and Ford (Volvo) don't seem to be able to do at present. (Has anyone recently tried to price out a S60, for example) with anywhere near the standard feature content of the TSX, for example? Good luck...)
Too small for me though. Wonder if they'll sell any in Sweden?

gilboman

i love saab styling...

Junkster

GM actually has 20% stock in Fuji, and they are the largest stockholders, but management decisions come straight from Fuji, since GM is a minority owner (the 80% allows for others to intervene in decisions).
I believe the only reason for the agreement by Fuji to build Saabs is just that. THEY get to build the car, which means increase jobs, partial profits and chance to increase output at minimal expense to the company. GM will be forking over the money in developement of new skin and whatnot, so Fuji doesn't have to invest any out of pocket money.
And as for GM say "F U" and pulling out, that would make no business sense whatsoever. This deal for 20% share cost GM 1.4 billion dollars. If they pull out anytime before a ten year period, they would be losing money(it's basic economic ideal that 10 years is needed for any successful venture by a large company). I think you also forget how large of a company Fuji Heavy Industries really is. It ranks among the top five conglomerates in Japan, and you can list the rest from most products at your house (by the way, Mitsu is the largest and oldest conglomerate in Japan, as of last year). GM needs this deal to not only get shared technology, but more importantly, break sales ground in the Asian market with the help of the company. GM has stated outright that this deal was for them to get technological help (CVT, small car tech) as well as aide in reaching the Asian market. Fuji, in return, gets to eat off of the GM budget in some of their research.

Junkster, who has everything from pencils and art ink to an automobile from Mitsu.