shaf

While most people here are probably interested in making the car go faster, I'm actually interested in improving the ride quality and quietness of the car (even at the expense of softer handling).

I don't ever plan to race the car, 98% of my time will be spent going < 70 mph, due to the 60mph speed limit here. I am considering the TSX because I like the Accord but want something smaller and with more luxury features (plus I like the looks of the TSX better).

What are my options? Does acura make 16" (or even 15") wheels that would fit the TSX? Would this make things significantly more quiet?

What about suspension? My questions here are:
1) What would I need to buy to make the suspension less firm?
2) Are the parts common to other hondas? Could I get them today?
3) Approximately how much would it cost (including installation) ?

The other cars I'm considering (BMW 325xi, Saab 9-3) keep the sport features in a separate package so that you don't have to get it if you don't want it. And the IS300 offers no-charge 16" wheels as an option.

Thanks!

Jason

If you put 15" wheels on your TSX I will fly to Seattle, hunt you down, and then kill you. Thanks.

shaf

Because of performance reasons or looks?

If it's for performance, how much of a difference does it make? I am interested in knowing this. This is the first car I'm buying based on choice instead of what I could afford at the time.

If it's for looks, I honestly don't care. I don't understand how people see such a huge difference in 4" of black around a wheel vs 2". I've seen pictures of the Accord JDM which I believe has 15" wheels, and they look fine to me.

And by the way, I would drive to Seattle, not fly. It's a very fun drive.. although I almost hit a deer in west Illinois

larchmont

I'm very interested in all the answers too, shaf.

My guess about what Jason meant was EVERYTHING -- looks, plus that you'd be sacrificing a lot of performance, and if you do that, why would you want a TSX?

But I'm sure you'll be hearing it from the horse's mouth quite soon!

I'd love a better ride, and from other threads it seems like you can get it to some extent just with different tires -- but there's a lot of controversy about it, with no apparent consensus.

OldieTSX

You could probably go with the 16s from the accord, as those will probably be the winter sets I'll look at. I highly doubt fitting 15s on it, given the 11.8" front discs, it would be hard to find a stock honda based 15" wheel that would fit over those. I don't believe Acura makes 16s for it, but you might also look at the wheels from a RSX (Depending on bolt pattern and offset). You could find those for rather cheap on ebay, partstrader.com, etc.

For springs, I'm pretty sure you would be able to fit the accord springs to it and I believe those have a lower spring rate.

Yes, most honda parts are interchangable within a model line and since the TSX is based on the underpinnings of the Accord, most of those parts should fit.

I have no idea on costs, a guess would be a couple hundred for the Accord springs and another couple hundred for install at a dealer.

RSX or Accord 16" wheels depends on where you look, but try those two sources I listed above.

bowersan

All im going to say is DRIVE THE CAR FIRST. It is already amazingly smooth.... the only noise you hear is road noise, and that isnt loud at all. Dont fix something that aint broke, yo!

J.

1killercls

I got the Window Seat!!!

I will come too!!!!

Note: Maybe you should buy a Town Car.

vitocorleone

I'd start "slow" - replace the tires with whatever all-season / touring ones will fit (if any). 16" wheels may look tiny, since the 17" wheels are pushing that line as it is esp. since the rear side quarterpanel appears so large. You'd probably be better off tweaking the suspension because at least that wouldn't affect the looks of the car.

MrChad

You can replace the stock springs and dampers with those found on the 2003 model LX or EX 4cylinder Accord. They are less firm. and will fit.

larchmont

Do you know how they would affect performance/handling?

blkman1007

Shaf what you doing sleeping on the job !! You want to put smaller rims on a tsx !!?? Come on man!!! You killing the look of the car and making your Fellow Tsxer's look bad. Dont get a towncar, jus go get you a civic, they got small tires and its honda. If not go get a ford escort so that way the ford people can call you friend Come on man stick to the Oem wheels at least you giving us a bad name. but I kno peeps goign to say its your money but please think bout the kids!!

shaf

OldieTSX and MrChad,

Thanks for the info! This is exactly what I wanted to know. If I decide to buy the TSX, I will try out the Accord springs first, and let you all know how it goes. If I want even softer/quieter, I'll consider RSX 16" rims/tires.

And no, I don't want a Town Car I want something that rides more like the TL or saab 9-3 arc, but the TL is too large for my taste, and I like the TSX better than the saab in most areas (such as reliability, interior, price w/options, etc).

id888

Shaf, if you're going to borrow a bunch of Accord parts, why not consider the Accord itself? I'm thinking the cost of swapping all this stuff will easily translate into the thousands. A cushy car that may come out similar in price would be a C-class Mercedes.

Gulp, um, how about a Toyota Camry? (I can't believe I said that. Nobody quote me.)

larchmont

Good Q's, but I think shaf really answered most of these in his post just above.

About the Mercedes, I can think of several things. Reliability (which shaf mentions as a priority) has fallen off a cliff in recent years, although few people can believe it. Also there are numerous reasons that someone might prefer the Honda/Acura image and persona over Mercedes.

shaf

id888: I'm thinking the cost of swapping all these parts will translate to about $75.

AD #1: "Anyone with a brand new RSX want to trade your 16" for my 17? You have to pay the $30 to have them put on my car and rebalanced" --I would probably get tons of offers, IF the TSX rims fit the RSX.

AD #2: "Anyone with a brand new '03 accord want to swap springs? You have to pay $50 to defray costs of swapping them" -- Total cost for me: about $75.

I've test-driven about 10 cars since April, and I actually got the 03 camry as a rental car when I had to get some body work done. The camry was nice, but TSX interior looks 10x nicer, the exterior looks much nicer, and 5 of the 12 cars parked in front of my apartment complex right now are '03 camrys.

rzee

I guess it will drop its handling to the Accord's level.

larchmont

That's about what I would have thought.

To paraphrase Seinfeld, I don't McWant it.

1killercls

this guy shaf is VERY CONFUSED.

Why buy a brand new car and mod it to REDUCE its performance capabilities???

Dude...buy something else that is more suited to your needs.

rzee

This is a sad day in the still short TSX history... :'(

Sarlacc

Shaf everything youve described wanting in a car points to toyota/lexus. They are much softer rides (save the IS and maybe the GS.)

Sounds like you need to find a car that suits your needs. Hondas are by nature designed from a racing inspiration,you are supposed to feel the road, not like your floating.

Check some other cars out and report back.

Jason

shaf you should buy an es300, those are sweet! But too soft for me, for you it should be perfect.

MrChad

good luck fitting the 15/16" RSX, Accord, or TSX wheels over the stock TSX/Accord Coupe 6-speed calipers mounted on the TSX's front hubs.

Looks like with the Accord EX springs and shocks you are also going to need some smaller rotor-hub assemblies and the corrisponding brackets to relocate the stock caliper.

Seems like alot of work. Why not just purchase an EX-L manual 5-speed 2003 Accord Sedan and upgrade to NAVi/DVD player unit if you want that extra level of bam! It will save you a few grand too. Not too mention all the extra cash could be dumped into some of the Accords many-many sweat optional extras. DVD-video system or MP3 audio anyone? Seems like pimp'n-N'style is the point of this man's rides.

shaf

Thanks for your posts, everyone. I don't think I've done a very good job of explaining why I would want a TSX in the first place. I'll try to explain...

Let me first say that I've been researching / test driving cars since April, and the TSX is still my #1 choice. Even if it was impossible to make the TSX have a smoother ride, I would probably buy it. I'm just trying to slightly customize it to match my driving style. I don't want to turn it into an accord. Just because I put 16" rims on it doesn't automatically turn it into a grandmother-mo-bile. It still has 200hp.

There are about 15 things that are important to me when buying a car. I'll try to list some of them here:

Reliability, Safety, Fuel economy, Acceleration/horsepower,
Steering/handling, Ride comfort, Noise level, Luxury features,
Interior Looks, Exterior Looks, Price
Trunk space / head room / leg room
etc...


I like the TSX because it wins in almost every single category. For example, I'm considering the Saab 9-3 Arc. It's a great car. I love the way it feels. But it's not as reliable as the TSX. It's also more expensive. I also think the TSX is a nicer looking car, both inside and outside. If I can make the TSX drive more like the 9-3 Arc, then I get a car that has everything I'm looking for. That is my goal.

And The 9-3 Arc is not a slow, floaty type of ride. It is definitely a sport sedan, and has fairly tight suspension, but is more comfortable to drive than the TSX (in my opinion). It's a slight compromise.

I could make comparisons to other cars i'm considering, but I don't want to make this post longer than it already is.

Jason

What about an ES300 shaf?

cruiserchuck

Do not do it! I also thought the TSX’s ride was too harsh at first. However, after about a week, I got used to it, and it does not seem harsh any more (I am not sure if the springs got softer, or my butt got harder.) Now when I drive my wife’s Accord, I feel like I am floating down the road by comparison.

crazy

15's don't fit. Rotors are too big.

If ya want a quiter ride, here's a cheap solution:












EAR PLUGS!!!!!!!

larchmont

IMHO -- no. I know the ES300 quite well. I seriously considered it last year before I got my TL-S, and based on what I call "paper factoids" I was pretty sure that was going to be my car -- until I drove it. It's WAY, WAY softer than anything we're talking about. And way, way off of the the subject in just about every other respect.

IMHO shaf isn't being (quite) as ridiculous as most of us think. I think he did a pretty good job conveying where he's coming from (even though he said he must not have), and to me it's possible that it makes some sense -- but ultimately not that much. I agree with those who say he'd be better off looking for another car, although I disagree that the ES300 would be in the running.

Either get a different car, or, get the TSX in a lease deal (or something) that you can get out of pretty easily, leave it as it is, and be on the lookout for something else that might come out.

shaf

ES300 looks like a nice car, thanks. I'll add it to the list of cars to consider. Although it looks like a bigger car than the TSX. If it's bigger or equal to the TL, I would probably prefer the TL.

I'll tell you what, I will take the TSX for a longer test drive (30+ minutes) before I make my final decision. My 3 mile test drive was pretty rough. There was a stretch of road that had some minor bumps in it, and when I went over it in the TSX the car was jostling me around like crazy. I went over the same road in my car and I could barely feel it. Tire noise was kind of loud but not too bad; maybe I can try to reduce that with dynamat or get some different 17" tires.

35kcdn

A 3 mile test drive..... good God if you're going to buy a car take it for at least a half hour and several times if necessary It took me 2 drives before I finally said no to the 6 cyl competition

shaf

I agree.

With the VW salesman, it was "here's the keys. The freeway is over there. See ya in 30 minutes"

Saab was similar. Of course, they offer 24hr test drive, but I didn't do that.

With Acura, it was like an anal-retentive driving test. "turn right here, now turn left, ..." I'll have to go back and demand a real test drive

Brad

I guess my thoughts about the TSX are similar to yours. Performance is not an only reason to buy a TSX. I've owned 3 Accords, and I like them, but I strongly dislike the 2003 Accords. The current Accords have become bloated and awkwardly styled--VERY alienating. I like the styling and feature set (creature comforts) of the trimmer Accord-based TSX, but 200 horsepower isn't a reason to buy it. In fact, I would be just as happy if the Euro Accord were available here as long as it was available in manual transmission and an Ebony leather interior.

Have a look at the specs for the Euro Accord in Australia. That's essentially and profoundly the basis of the TSX. The Euro Accords have 16" wheels. Wheel size is 16x6.5 and tire size is 205/55 R16 91V. I would be content with those. For reference, see:

http://www.honda.com.au/accord/euroluxury/index.htm

If you are considering a BMW or Saab, be sure to check the prices of authentic (dealer) BMW or Saab parts and servicing. I remember even 15 years ago that even simple BMW parts--like a motorcycle air filter--were outrageously expensive compared to comparable, equal quality Yamaha air filters, for example.

Jason

ES300 vs. TSX:

ES300
Dimensions
Exterior
Length: 191.1 in. Width: 71.3 in.
Height: 57.3 in. Wheel Base: 107.1 in.
Ground Clearance: 6.1 in. Curb Weight: 3439 lbs.

Interior
Front Head Room: 38.5 in. Front Hip Room: 55.5 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 56.8 in. Rear Head Room: 37.4 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 55.8 in. Rear Hip Room: 55.5 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.2 in. Rear Leg Room: 35.6 in.
Luggage Capacity: 14.5 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 15 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5

Performance Data
Base Engine Type: V6 Horsepower: 210 hp
Max Horsepower: 5800 rpm Torque: 220 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4400 rpm Drive Type: FWD
Turning Circle: 36.8 ft.

Fuel Data
Fuel Tank Capacity: 18.5 gal.
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Automatic: : 21 mpg / 29 mpg
Range in Miles: (City/Highway)
Automatic: 388.5 mi. / 536.5 mi.

TSX
Dimensions
Exterior
Length: 183.3 in. Width: 69.4 in.
Height: 57.3 in. Wheel Base: 105.1 in.
Ground Clearance: 4.7 in. Curb Weight: 3241 lbs.

Interior
Front Head Room: 37.8 in. Front Hip Room: 54.4 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 55.4 in. Rear Head Room: 37.3 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 53.5 in. Rear Hip Room: 54.4 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.4 in. Rear Leg Room: 34.2 in.
Luggage Capacity: 12.8 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5

Performance Data
Base Engine Type: Inline 4 Horsepower: 200 hp
Max Horsepower: 6800 rpm Torque: 166 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4500 rpm Drive Type: FWD
Turning Circle: 40 ft.

Fuel Data
Fuel Tank Capacity: 17.1 gal.
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 21 mpg / 29 mpg
Range in Miles: (City/Highway)
Manual: 359.1 mi. / 495.9 mi.

So the ES is 7 inches longer. Hmm.

EDIT: Sorry for the long post.

Brad

That's how my test drive on the TSX was! Although the salesperson provided the directions, I had 20 or 30 minutes with him, on city streets, windy twisty hilly streets, potholed streets, and the freeway (up to 6th gear). I thought that the ride was reasonable. And I love the responsive steering. (My old Acccord EX coupe had slightly firmer suspension compared to the four-door Accord model, so I thought the TSX was quite civilized and refined and more precise.)

I would have gladly ordered a car from him, but he quoted me nothing but MSRP, MSRP, MSRP. Only after I put a deposit on a TSX at another dealer that offered much less than MSRP did that original salesperson change his tune about MSRP.

shaf

wow, so the ES300 is definitely closer to TSX than TL in terms of size. I'll make sure to check it out. Thanks again for the info, Jason.

Jason

You're very welcome, just don't put 15's on it. Wow, I've never tried selling someone on a car other than the TSX. This sucks. I must say though, I think the ES would be a nice fit for you. It may be a little too soft but the interior is unreal.

larchmont

It'll be interesting to hear shaf's impressions if he really tries the ES300. We haven't seen much of anything on our sites about the car, except sometimes from me, because the car really isn't comparable to the TSX or any of the other cars that most of us have driven. IMHO, Jason, that long post shows again how little you can tell sometimes from "paper factoids" about how a car behaves and feels. On paper the cars might look much alike. In reality, they aren't on the same planet.

shaf

I checked out the ES 300 at lexus.com. The interior looks awesome, but the exterior looks are kind of dull, more like a Chrysler than a Lexus.

Comparably equipped to the TSX, it's about $35,500 msrp. My biggest fault with the car is that it doesn't have a sunroof, not even as an option. I love sunroofs; not sure why they left that out. For 35k, I might as well get a 325xi with premium package, right? The $26,490 TSX is looking attractive again

I might test drive it anyway. If I do, I'll let you know how it drives.

Jason

You missed something b/c it definitely has a sunroof. I saw it on an interior pic at edmunds.com. I also agree with your assessment of the exterior and interior. Truth be told, you may be too young for an ES300.

larchmont

I know you mean it, but that's really very funny. IMO you just think you mean it right now; after you test drive it, the sun roof thing won't even make it onto the radar screen compared to other things. It's kind of llke saying.....let me see, what kind of dumbass analogy can I make this time.....I think I'll like the gulag except they don't have caviar there.

I really would be extremely fascinated about what your impression would be if you test drive the car. In fact, I'd like to know the impressions of anyone on this site who might try it. Nobody ever does, for the reason I gave before. It's not just price, at all. We have dudes on here who try BMW's, Mercedes's, even Porsche's. As I said before, the ES300 isn't on the same planet. Heck, it's not in the same galaxy.

I'd tell Jason to go try it, but I know he's like real busy and stuff.

Iceman

Shaf, I think you should take another look at the TL. The 2003 TL is in close-out mode at your Acura dealer, which means you can get it for about the same $ as the TSX. If I'm reading the rumor mill correctly, the 2004 TL with automatic will have a softer suspension than the 6-speed. It might be exactly what you're looking for.