TSXinCA

Just bought 6 speed manual TSX last week. I'm very, very happy with it. Compared it thoroughly (including test drives) to BMW 325i, Audi 1.8T, Mazda 6, Pontiac Grand Prix, and Nissan Altima. TSX drives about as well as BMW and Audi, but is a little lacking in hp and low end torque. But TSX handles way better than Nissan and Mazda and Pontiac, which all have more raw power but are less sophisticated and do not handle as nicely. When considering power, features, style, handling and price, I really think TSX is the best combination of all factors. I'd have to say the BMW and Audi are a little nicer, but not worth $7,000 higher price.

Also, I have had both VW and BMW's in the past. Both drove beautifully, but were both literally one problem after another the entire time I owned them. I will never buy another German car, they are simply not built well. Prior to those cars I had a 1993 Integra for 7 years and never ever had one single problem with it. So when factoring reliability and build quality into the equation, Acura is just the best performing, most stylish car you can get for the price.

What do you all think?

donutchow

i think you made a great choice, although it's a shame that the E46 3 series doesn't cost $27,000 loaded. that would be the dream

TSXinCA

Yes that would be sweet. But like i said, I think the TSX is the best car you can get FOR THE PRICE.

larchmont

Congrats -- I think you'll keep loving it.

Actually a nice little summary of TSX vs. the others.

Just one thing: I'm surprised that you relegate the reliability issue basically to an afterthought. Especially when you had such severe problems with VW and BMW. And, you say Audi is "a little nicer" than TSX -- yet, if anything, Audi is famous for having even more problems than BMW and VW. By the way, I also had a BMW before I ever had an Acura, and I know exactly what you're talking about.

Most people on here think I put way too much emphasis on reliability -- but it doesn't stop surprising me that most people don't put more emphasis on it when they consider what car is "nicer" than another. I guess most people can separate it out (then maybe, like TSXinCA, take it into account afterwards when making their decision). I just can't separate it out at all. If I get into a BMW or MB or Audi, the word "trouble" hovers over everything.

Back to the subject: Nice write-up, great decision. Enjoy!

donutchow

hey larch, audi IS vw. and i think they both have reliability issues, not sure which brand has it worse though. it's amazing how popular jettas and passats are if they're not reliable

larchmont

Don't know if you're being serious or sarcastic, but either way:

It's NOT amazing when you consider that even on this site -- an ACURA site, chrissake -- clearly a lot of people don't feel reliability outweighs other factors in picking a car.

donutchow

yeah, people are generally stupid. although it's ironic that ferraris might be the most unreliable car ever, don't they have to go in for scheduled maintenance every 3,000 miles??

fdl

Their gas mileage is also through the roof. Thats why ferraris are not usually daily drivers. They are street legal race cars which people usually buy as toys, or weekend cars.

rzee

I think majority of the population knows very little about cars and their reliabilities. The European diehards on this site who don't care about reliabilities are just a fraction of the remaining population.

donutchow

there's a ferrari dealership 5 minutes from my parents house in philly. i see a 360 spider and a 575M occasionally. the guy who owns the 360 says he gets about 10mpg!!!! hahahaha. also, 2 enzo's were bought in my area, but they will never be driven, except to car shows (i talked to the manager at the dealer). it's such a shame.

fdl

It is a shame. THat car needs to be driven on a track. The problem is people who buy these cars buy them as an investment. These are some of the few cars that will actually increase in value, rather than depreciate. Wouldnt want to drive ths shit out of your investment I wouldnt be surprised if the Enzo has already doubled in value. Sure beats the stock market.

TSXinCA

Speaking of stupid, you can't compare Ferraris with "everyday" cars. If you can afford a Ferrari, then you don't care much about the maintenance. But us Average Joes who live in economic reality have to be more practical. Its apples and oranges, dude...

fdl

From C&D on the Enzo..

Highs: Perfect steering, perfect brakes, perfect handling, perfect power. (Did we mention that it’s just about perfect?)

Lows:The oil costs $60 a quart, the brake pads $6000, and its nose is easily bruised.

The Verdict: If this isn’t your dream car, you’re having the wrong dreams.


6 grand for brake pads! Even if someone gave me this car, I could never afford to drive it

ClutchPerformer

It's not to be given. And from what I hear, you can't even buy one just because you have the money. You have to APPLY to purchase an Enzo. Ferrari makes the final decision as to who gets them. Obviously you hold weight if you already own an F-50, F-40, etc. I think that's great. It'll keep the cars in the right hands, IMO.

TSXinCA

Thanks for the kudo, but I think you misunderstood what I meant by "nicer". I was speaking of that feeling of plushness and luxury, such as suspension like a cloud, real wood trim and not fake stuff, precision and power, etc etc....the tactile stuff. This does not include "reliability" That is certainly a big factor and absolutely NOT an "afterthought". But its just not something I consider an amenity that one could look at, touch, feel and then say "Wow, that sure is nicer than the other one".

TSXinCA

By the way, Larch, I agree about "trouble" hovering over everything in German cars. That's why I didn't buy one. But aesthetically, you have to admit they are "nicer"

larchmont

Yeah, I knew exactly what you meant -- and of course I do understand it.
I guess "afterthought" wasn't right. What made me put it that way was that you said it "after" you said the others were nicer.

Mainly I was just pointing out that for me, it's impossible to feel in any respect that cars have anything "nice" about them when I know they have some fatal flaw; I just can't separate out the unreliability from the rest.
Like, I wouldn't be able to think a lady is gorgeous if I know she's an axe murderer, no matter how gorgeous she is.

TSXinCA

Understood. I guess they way I wrote it it did kinda sound like an afterthought. But believe me, I will never buy another German crap car, after the 2 nightmares I've had in the past 3 years. I only checked them out again for comparison purposes; it was the TSX I was mainly interested in when I decided to dump my 325i a few weeks ago. I loved my old Integra so much that I was really just waiting for Acura to come out with a new model that I really liked. The RSX is too small, I've never cared much for the CL, and the TL and RL are both kinda boring. But the TSX is IT, baby!! Its near perfect!

larchmont

That's just about exactly where I was, except it was last year, when there was no TSX yet. I got the TL-S basically as a "place-holder" until some real thing popped up. I was pleasantly surprised that it popped up so soon -- and that it was an Acura.

TSXinCA

I'm glad I held out for the TSX, but I'm sure I'll still be kicking myself when the Type S comes out in a year or two!

Sarlacc

Am I the only one who owned a BMW and never had any major problems???

Sure i bought it with 110K and it had wear and tear items to be replaced.
But my 1985 528 never did me wrong, only towards the end of its life when it was 16 years old and just driven 2200 miles cross country did all the little start to go. So i sold it, but the engine, man the engine was still bullet proof. I miss that car.....

Audis, now audis are trouble, super trouble. I looked at getting an 97 A4 2.8 before i found my CL. On the way to my mechanic every thing electrical just went nuts and stopped working. then when my guy put it up practically everything that could leak was. I returned it and said no way in hell.

larchmont

Lots of people have had BMW's with no problems.

From what I understand, looking closely at Consumer Reports' ratings and stats (which IMO are the ones that have the best quality of research and which happen also to conform most closely to what us kind of people really mean when we say "reliability"), the differences between top-rated models and average-related models, or even sometimes below-average, show up in only 25% to 50% of the cars. That means even for an average or below-average model, your particular car has a pretty good chance of not having any great problems. It's hard to read and understand those studies clearly; it's complicated, and confusing.

I think the fact that you have a decent chance to get a reliable set of wheels with almost any model is probably the main reason that more people don't give a higher priority to "reliability." The reason I do give it such a high priority is that I did have a car that was big trouble (it happened to be a BMW), and therefore I decided that forever more, I would try to improve the odds as much as I could on the cars that I choose.

But it's just odds.

TSXinCA

I'm sure there are many bimmers that never have serious problems, but statistically they are just way more likely to end up pissing you off. A good friend of mine had a BMW similar to yours, a mid-80's 5 series that ran and ran and ran until it finally died just a year or two ago. Was completely falling part by then, but he had no major problems in its first half decade or so. He definitely got his money's worth. I just had so many problems with both my 2000 VW and 2001 BMW that I just have a bad taste in my mouth for German cars. COuld very well get lucky and get one with no problems, but I aint gonna take that risk again. As they say, "burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me"

Sarlacc

I totally agree with you and thats all very true, I just got lucky. I was also told by a tech long time ago that my 5 series was the last true bullet proof bimmer. oh well.

BTW I later found on consumer reports no less that the audi i was looking at buying was black listed, period.

lshenretty

Just came out of a used 528i, Larch. Had 120K on it. I didn't think it was unreliable, but I did think that anything that went wrong was expensive to fix.

And almost certainly it was less reliable than Toyota or Honda. I guess I just remember (as I'm sure you do) when cars were REALLY unreliable. By comparison to those days, all cars are so much more reliable today than they used to be that I don't worry much about it anymore.

It sounds like the Bimmer you had was much worse than the one I had (a '97), so I understand your concern about it.

I ordered the TSX because it is such a good car for such an amazing price. And I like it so much, I think I'd get it over the Audi or BMW even if they were the same price. But I wouldn't try to prove that it's the "best", whatever that means. I don't care whether it's best. I like it. I like the price. I'm gonna get me one.

My guess is you feel pretty much the same way, although I don't wanna put words in your mouth.

larchmont

Well, I would! :flamer:

lshenretty

hahahaha!

OK. It's the best.

sheik28

This is a great discussion...I hope I don't dumb it up.
I think alot of people don't put so much weight on reliability is because of leasing. Not as many people buy their cars any more. They lease for 2-4 years and give the car back, usually before many problems have time to develop.
Also, possibly due to leasing, people aren't as attached to their cars as they used to be.
How many people still name their cars?
Do you think the same amount of people on average change their own oil, or do they just take it into the delaership or local quick lube?
So based on this maybe they aren't as attuned to reliability as much as features or performance.

Alin10123

Why do German and Japanese car manufacturers now produce cars in the US? Or move their plants to Mexico or something? It often times reduces the reliability of the car compared to when it was produced in Germany or Japan. Before Mercedes built their plant in Alabama, they use to have awesome reliability. There were never really any complaints about them. Then... they decided to build the M-class in the United States. It's probably the worse SUV i've ever driven. (No offense to M-class owners). I mean... they drive ok in the beginning when they are new, but 3 years later, and there are tons of problems. The types of problems that are NOT typical in a pure German made car. The manufacturers say that making the cars in the US or other countries will not make a difference in relability. But i think that it makes a huge difference. I also think that they only say that because for them it cuts cost because the cars are already here in the US when they are dont being built. What do you guys think?

darth62

About the reliability of BMW: According to CR (which you may or may not believe) the five series is the most reliable of available vehicles (which seems to jive with those of you who had good experiences) and the reliability of the 3-series used to be good but has declined dramatically in recent years.

TSXautoXer

TSX for me is like a safe home base kinda thing. I know it won't have too much problem. And that's one of the main reason for me to own one. And now that with this reliable car, I can safely venture out for a weekend car without considering too much on the reliability issue.