Vividi

I am shopping for a TSX in Los Angeles and I 'm surpised to learn that every dealer has 3-10 used TSXs with 7-14k miles. Many cars are advertised under 25k and some are under 24k. One dealers price for a Cerfified Used car with 10k is 500 above the online KBB trade-in price. (I will test drive it once it passes the certification process). Why is the Los Angles area flooded with used TSXs?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Because lots of people in LA get new cars every year.

GIBSON6594

L.A folks don't get addicted to VSA like us snow getters

Jim Holloman

A new 2005 model without Nav can be bought for around 25-26k. So, the prices are not that much of a deal. I would rather pay another 1-3k to get a new car that I know has been properly treated and broken in.

Here is my math (excluding cost of captial, aka interest charges):

Assume a new 2005 TSX, without Nav, for $26k. Assume a useful life of 200k miles with routine maintenance (brakes, battery, tires). Then, the capital cost, excluding maintenance cost, is 13 cents per mile.

Given a used, non-Nav, TSX at $25,500 and 10,000 miles. The depreciation cost per mile is only 5 cents. To match the 13 cents per mile, the car would have to be priced at $24,700 ($26,000.00 - (10,000 * .13) = $24,700.00).

Another view; at $25,500 and 10,000 miles, you would be paying 21 cents a mile (13 + (13 - 5) to drive a used car instead of of 13 cents a mile to drive a new car. Which would you rather do?

This is just an example. You can make your own assumptions and plug the numbers for any car. I tend to focus on capital cost.

Freedom of the press generally means feedom for those that own the press. And, high depreciation costs generally means costs for those selling an asset. But, the seller's loss is not the buyer's gain when there is a broker involved.

There are some people that believe that a car more than is more than a year old is not fit to drive. You will find there last year's car on the used car lots.

jlukja

We car shopped before for certified used cars and the price difference between those and brand new cars wasn't that much.

DJDZ

Jim,

A question. In you example, I understand why the car should be priced at $24,700 to maintain the 13 cents per mile based on the useful life ($24,700/190,000) =13 cents. Why then is it 21 cents per mile on the $25,500 car with 10,000 miles? Should it not be the following ($25,500 / 190,000) = .1342. My thinking is that buying the used car at this price over the remaining useful life would constiture a higher capital cost per mile but not at 21 cents. Why the (13+ (13-5) calculation. Please let me know what I am missing.

Thanks,

Dennis

DJDZ

Jim,

A question. In you example, I understand why the car should be priced at $24,700 to maintain the 13 cents per mile based on the remaining useful life ($24,700/190,000) =13 cents. Why then is it 21 cents per mile on the $25,500 with 10,000 miles? Should it not be the following ($25,500 / 190,000) = .1342. My thinking is that buying the used car at this price over the remaining useful life would constiture a higher capital cost per mile but not at 21 cents. Why the (13+ (13-5) calculation. Please let me know what I am missing.

Thanks,

Dennis

Jim Holloman

> Another view; at $25,500 and 10,000 miles, you would be paying 21 cents
> a mile (13 + (13 - 5) to drive a used car instead of of 13 cents a mile to drive
> a new car. Which would you rather do?

My apology. My sentence was not complete. It should have been "Another view; at $25,500 and 10,000 miles, you would be paying 21 cents a mile (13 + (13 - 5) to drive a used car instead of of 13 cents a mile to drive a new car FOR THE FIRST 10,000 MILES. Which would you rather do?

Hope it makes sense now. If not, let me know. I assigned the difference in cost to the 10,000 miles of the used car. After 10,000 miles, the captial cost would be the same -- and the new car would have 10,000 miles on it; matching the mileage of the used car. In other words, both equal at that point.

Vividi

I apologize for not being more specific about price until I consummated the deal. I assume readers knew most consumers negotiate a discounted price well below dealers advertised price. I paid 22,700 for the certified TSX with 9004 miles. Add 2,153 for taxes and fees (8.25% to the Governator) brings my total otd price to 24,853. Using Jim's new car price of 26,000 and adding 8.67% for taxes and fees yields a total price of 28,252. So I saved 3399 dollars. Using Jim's formula, I would be paying -12 cents a mile (13 + (13 - 38) to drive a used car instead of 13 cents a mile to drive a new car FOR THE FIRST 9,000 MILES.

If I purchased a new car the limited warranty expires 3/09 at 50,000 miles.

My same limited warranty expires 3/2009 at 62,000 miles (53,000 miles to go)
My power-train warranty expires 3/2011 at 100,000 miles (91,000 miles to go)

My brother in-law, a mechanic at a Chrysler dealer, tells me engines are broken-in at the factory. I don't want to argue the merits of pampering an engine for the first couple of thousand miles, but given the choice of a well broken-in engin or an extra 38,000 mile drive-train warranty, I opted for the warranty.

I asked the dealer (sales about 130/month) about the quantity of used TSXs. He replied that his dealership has more than 20 TSXs used as demos and loaners and after a year they sell them off. They sold 3 TSXs this week or 6 times the allotment so I am still not sure why we have an oversupply. Other facts: acura.com lists more used TSXs than all other cars combined and when I check inventories out-of-state, I only see one or two TSXs at dealerships. Anyway, I love the car and I'm happy with my deal.

Jim Holloman

Vividi, I would say you negotiated a good deal.

The ability to negotiate is very much dependent upon the specific dealer and his inventory/cost situation. The supply/demand ratio can vary greatly from one location to another. At the time I purchased my TSX from Appletree Acura (Sept., '04), there was one used TSX (SSM) on the lot and the salesman I asked about it showed no interest in dealing. There was more interest show in dealing on the new TSX's. If a recall correctly, the used TSX was priced at only $1,300.00 below the MSRP on a new model of the same type. I believe it had about 9,000 miles on it.

As more used TSX's become available, I fully expect that the gap between the price of a used one and a new one will become wider. But, nearly everyone I know pretty much expects Acura's to hold their value much better than many other brands; especially the domestic brands.

You had the knowledge, and the skills, needed to obtain a good deal on a used TSX --and you being happy with both the car, and the deal, is what matters the most. Either new, or used, it is pretty hard to go wrong with a TSX -- providing it fits your needs.

BlueCLS6

What dealer did you end up at? I am in LA too, looking to trade my old Accord in for a used TSX. Any tips or dealers to avoid? I have never bought a used car from a dealer... got the CL new and the Accord from my Dad 10 years back. I'm going for an auto + Nav. Thanks for any help...

agun

Vividi,

1. Was that an auto or a stick?
2. What was the dealer's advertised price?
3. Did you have a trade-in? What was the MK/YR/MILE?
4. I assume that was a cash deal, correct?
5. Did you ever find out if it was a loaner?
6. Just to echo BlueCLS6's question, which dealer was that?
7. I suck at negotiating. What was your opening offer?

Thanks!

ISO: 2004 non-navi, 6SP, 10k miles --> OTD $25,000.

biker

The trick to getting a deal on a used car is to get that plum car before the dealer. By late this summer used 04 TSX in the 20K range should be available.

Oh, and welcome to the site agun.

Vividi

I purchased my car at Power Acura South Bay contact "Ali Fattahinia" <FattahiniaA@autonation.com with a window sticker price of 23991. South Coast Acura has a Charcoal/Ebony TSX that I negotiated down to 22500. I preferred the handling of the car at Power Acura so I past. They knew I was not interested so they met by price of 22500. Go to South Coast Acura near closing time and demand the price and refuse to leave until you get it. Dch Tustin Acura has more than 10 TSXs. They quoted around 23k over the phone. I already chose Power Acura so I did meet person to person, the best way to negotiate.

I was quoted 24800 for a new TSX at Glendale Acura. Ali at Power said this price was impossible since it was below invoice. He said some dealers quote impossibly low prices than add fees. I do not know what to believe.

Chris the sales manager at Keyes Acura said the supply chain for manual trannies has broken and they have not seen any in months. Since manuals account for only a tiny fraction of sales you will either a have very difficult or very easy time buying a manual depending how long the car has been on the lot. There are only three Nav TXSs in LA/Orange and 30 nonNavs. You are probable better off ordering a new manual TSX but try not to put down a deposit.

The dealer had me sign paper work indicating the car was a loaner. Demos have Nav. (I highly recommend a product from http://trafficgauge.com/ that gives real time traffic info in a palm pilot size devise. I will wait to get a Nav until it supports real-time traffic like the RL). I cover most of LA and Orange so driving to different dealers is not a problem.

The experts recommend negotiating one step at a time. First negotiate the Car price then the trade and finally financing. Honda offers extended warrantees without a surcharge for the first 12000 miles so don’t feel pressure to get one (I assume you can find a forum that has specific info).

Agun, if you hate negotiating and refuse the slush box trannie check out the Scion Tc for 16,000. You can find a manual demo at a downtown dealer.

My tips to negotiating a good deal

1. Deal only with the Internet sales department. Half the work is already done; you are profiled as a knowledgeable customer looking for the best deal. The departments performance is measured in units sold not commission per unit. Don't bother with email, just call the dealership and ask for the Internet sales department. I hate dealing with retail sales, the salesman has no experience and you have to deal with the antics of the sales manager.

2. Be informed; get as much info as possible. Use all means possible. I check inventories via cars.com, autotrader.com and acura.com. Check prices on line but remember kbb.com and Edmund.com are as accurate as MPG estimates. Check for incentives.

3. Develop your negotiating skills. Few skills pay greater dividends over the course of your life. Read the articles at http://www.edmunds.com/advice/?tid=e...me.header..4.* and read 10 steps to buying a car and any check out any other recourses like negotiation for dummies.

4. Practice negotiating. Go to a dealer and act as if you are ready to buy a car. A new Honda civic will be introduced this summer so they should be willing to deal on the 05 civic. You should have an easy time getting them down quickly.

5. Remember these guys are pros, some and will lie, intimate and generally waste you time. Feel free to use any ploy to counter their advantages. If you feel uncomfortable lying when they ask if you buy the car today if they take your offer than say I am ready to immediately buy a car once you get a fair price. I just lie. Your greatest advantage is leave if you don’t like how the negotiations are proceeding – walk out the door.

6. Use dealers against each other. If one dealer gives you good price call another and see if they will beat it.

7. These people are tuned to your emotions and desire to buy a car. Fight any impulses to impulsively buy and remember these guys are in business to sell cars so don’t be pressure to buy on the spot, all offers ‘never’ expire and you can find other deales.

8. My car buying strategy has three parts: Call the Internet department and schedule Test Drives and get preliminary prices. At this I don’t reveal other offers. Second I call Internet departments ask them to beat offers received so far. I either say they need to meet X price or they need to beat X price by 200 0r 300 dollars. To receive the lowest price you will have to schedule more meetings at the dealer. After visiting one dealer I call the and tell them I am X minutes away and want to buy a car. By this time I am specific about my price and insist I will buy a car today if they meet my price. This can be time consuming so use a sufficient price drop to compensate for your time. Once you have visited an Internet department you can use your phone and ask if the can beat a price you just received. Keep lowering your price until the dealers refuses your offer. You can be confident you have found the rock bottom price.

Kawaii

yeah, i have seen a lot of autotrader, even some above the MSRP of a new TSX!
I know a lot of the dealers in S. Florida markup cars like crazy, but I bought ym car in Ct so didn't have to deal with that. My dad went trade in his manual GTO that he bought up north for MSRP for an auto GTO when he came down here, because driving stick was too much for him and they were asking ~8 to 10k over MSRP...on the sticker it said like stupid shit.. "window seals, $125...door molding, $100...dealer markup $5,000"..i can't believe they can all do that down here....scumbags

take a look at some of these prices
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search...2006&x=51&y=10

$27,995 with 10k miles
$27,488 with 1k miles
$27,480 with 7k miles
$27,200 with 12k miles
$26,991 with 15k miles
$25,981 with 13k miles
$25,500 with 25k miles

I could sell my car for a profit if I wanted to! lol

MrChad

Our car was purchased cert. used from a dealership for $23,900 (it was a service loaner). Non-navi Auto. The car had 6000mi on it, I'm quite happy with this price plus the 100k mi extended warranty. I priced in our area at the time, and I even for 3 grand more, I wasn't going to get a new TSX with the extended Acura warranty.

We now have 8500mi on the car, and it's still good as new. I would also have to assume if no issues show up by 7yrs - 100k mi they likely won't appear.

I wouldn't buy a used model from a the dealer (at their prices) unless the Acura warranty was included. I purchased my EX Accord new and after 5yrs. of hard use it's still fine, I should have saved the pennies and purchased it used as well. All cars are used once they leave the lot, I say let someone else take the initial hit.

I think a 1-2yr old Cert. Used Honda-Acura is a smart buy.