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Old 11-10-2005 | 01:57 PM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by Nikki
Instead of being proud of what you have and admitting that your car has flaws,You're extremely combative when anyone tries to say something bad about it.
For the record, I don't own a TSX (but will in a few months). You're the one that is clearly bitter about your purchase decision, and you take every opportunity to bad mouth the TSX. You claim the car "needs" several changes, and when people question the need for those changes you get all defensive. In short, you complain the TSX isn't as good as cars that (when equally equipped) cost well over $30k+ -- but you ignore the fact the TSX offers quite a lot for $28k.
Old 11-10-2005 | 02:10 PM
  #242  
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As for the MP3 CD playback, I'd love to have it since I have a good collection of MP3 CDs (my $150 Kenwood head decodes MP3s just fine) but, hey, what's that "PC Card" label on the Nav drive in the trunk for? My sales lady seemed to think it was for MP3 files.

Personally, I'd just as soon have a USB plug in the dash where I could pop in a flash drive with MP3 files.
Old 11-10-2005 | 02:21 PM
  #243  
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Hey, did you guys have notice that acura didn't mention the new "Electronic Brake Assist
" for 06 in there website. I just wondering if the EBA is offer in the 06 tsx.
Old 11-10-2005 | 02:41 PM
  #244  
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dom
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Originally Posted by erwins
Hey, did you guys have notice that acura didn't mention the new "Electronic Brake Assist
" for 06 in there website. I just wondering if the EBA is offer in the 06 tsx.

Its in the brochure.

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?i...can00106yt.jpg
Old 11-10-2005 | 03:29 PM
  #245  
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man i love this new interactive showroom. best site i have ever seeen! hands down.

But for us JDM'ers has anyone noticed that when you open the hood perhaps the new raditor cover/grill cowl looks as though it has cooling vents for the radiator and may even fit on a EURO-R grill thanks to the new sstock grill design being flat on top.
Old 11-10-2005 | 04:44 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by Yui
I just wanted to point out that the door locks are still up by the windows. Sorry to whoever was jumping on them being moved out of elbow's reach earlier in this thread =| There is no one touch sun/moon roof either, but I found the thread on modding it.

yeah the door lock thing is slightly crappy. my old car had them near the handle.
i suppose the only reason i dont like it is when i drive into my work parking lot, my elbow will hit the lock switch when i have to swipe my parking cards.


other than that i pretty much could care less where the manual lock is since i never use it and just push the buttons.
Old 11-10-2005 | 05:27 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by acn684
You said it yourself - if its something people wouldn't use why do the put it on DVD players, Home Audio, Aftermarket, we're buying a car, not a home stereo system. Most people buying these things buy it for a specific reason, especially aftermarket audio systems. Your argument is as good as, why don't they make the navi even faster by putting even more ram now, since ram is only pennies a mb these days. Yes, its something some people can use, but for one person it doesn't justify the add-on. Which is also why the mp3 player acura supplies is so expensive - going back to econ 101, its the price that the very last person is willing to pay for something like that.
? Dude, after reading your essay, your logic is flawed. First off you are comparing hardware vs. software in your RAM analogy. Adding MP3 playback capablity is all software, no hardware involved. That's why they add it in DVD players and boomboxes...it practically costs NOTHING. This is why some firmware upgrades add OGG or other codecs for FREE.

BTW, all Acura add-ons are all freakin' expensive, not just the MP3 player. Even lug nuts or headlight bulbs are like 8X more expensive than they compared to Pep Boys. Does that mean it's b/c of technology or just rip off pricing? Acura wanted $50 for 1 standard halogen headbulb when I could buy that same one at Pep Boys for $7.

The Acura MP3 CD player is $551. Do you really think it's the "technology" that makes it expensive when I can get a Sony or Alpine aftermarket head unit for less than $200? Nope, it's just a rip off.

Most people carry mp3 players now a days, not mp3 cd players. The aux jack is a clear example of mainstream technologies. Remember, acura really has no control what goes into the cars, its the consumers that demand it that create the benefit. If we were in the age where we all used mp3 cds instead of mp3 players, i would bet you that it would've been an mp3 cd player instead of the aux jack. This also explains why theres going to be an IPOD connectivity accessory, and not a samsung or rio, or iriver accessory. Granted some argue that those are the better MP3 devices compared to an IPod, I myself including - theres just no market for it.
That is not true, then why is MP3 CD playback becoming increasingly standard? It's on BMW and Infiniti. Aren't they competitors to Acura? Plus it's just less of a hassle to bring a MP3 CD vs my MP3 player. I won't have this dongle to worry about and can control my music from the steering wheel radio controls. Plus CDs are dirt cheap.

Yes, it does cost only a few dollars for the company to add, but thats only going to satisfy a few customers. And they probably thought about the trouble if people can't get it to work, then they'll have to handle their complaints and arguments how their cd doesn't work, and they tried this and that. Acura is NOT a car audio company, acura is NOT an electronics specialist, they are just Auto manufacturers that happen to create entry luxo cars. Im pretty sure they're going to be worried about all those people coming in complaining they can't get their bluetooth phone to connect. But unlike MP3 CD's, bluetooth is mainstream now, and its not that hard to use. Plus they even have a mini site telling you what phones you can use and what phones you cannot. But for MP3's CD's you have formatt issues.
When I said a "few dollars", I was being very liberal. It probably costs virtually nothing with all those other upgrades like Navi, Bluetooth, Hands Free, etc. Especially compared to iPod integration.

You have to be kidding me about people getting confused about format issues with CDs. Dude, if you know how to operate Navi, Bluetooth, and Hands Free, then I 'm sure burning some MP3s onto CD won't be a problem.

So if you were acura - throw in an addon thats only going to suit maybe 2 percent of our customers, and for those other x number of customers that decide to try it and is having to deal with all their problems, and you must because you have to hold your image. Then you gotta create software for the users so that they can encode the MP3's with a decoder that is compatible with their system, then you have to worry about piracy issues, then you gotta worry about what happens when the software screws up their computers, and then you factor in the fact that the user might have to go through the hassle of reencoding all their files - then you gotta help those taht eon't even know how to burn a cd, then those that thought they burnt it but didn't, then those that tried to rip a encrypted cd and failed, etc etc etc - do you realize how much damage to acura's image it? People will look at it and say, omg its such a confusing system - acura sucks with technology etc (don't believe me - look at BMW's internal computer, to me (someone whos tech savvy) understand is easily and it doesn't bother me, to my dad - he spend 50k on a X5 and he gets confused and fustrating trying to change stations etc. Then you have all the huge negative reviews from all these magazines saying how bad the system is. Can acura afford that? "Oh yea, as for that mp3 cd player, is absolute crap because it works with some file and not with others."
I have no idea where you came up with this point about piracy and DRM when EVERY DVD player can play MP3s. Do they provide you with special software to encode CDs? No.

However, keeping it a seperate device, allows those that really want it can buy it, and those that have trouble with it will be an isolated case. Better to deal with the 5 percent who buy it and try it and then not get it to work rather than the entire population of TSX owners who tried it and failed to get it to work.

With that said - back to the aux input and the ipod jack. Aux input - its just a sound plug in, you plug it in, it comes out. whoever plugged in the mp3 knows how to use it - simple done. IPod Jack - only ipod users can use it. IPOD not working well, okay you can talk with apple and sort it out. Or well help you because it just might be an isolated issue. No need to worry about the compatibility of everythings thats out there. Do you understand why they don't have mp3 cd players in there standard now? America, face it, is just not that tech savvy. How do you know? look around the street and realize how many things people have on them, that they won't use fully. MP3 players with equalizers, phones with bluetooth, PDA's with tons and tons of features, people will not know how to use. As a car company, be smart - make it simple to use, and avoid dealing with issues that you really shouldn't have to encounter. and often times, the mp3 cd players cause that - just ask those that have it right now, they'll tell you that theres compatibility issues - as acura u just can't afford to give everyone the opportunity to complain about how it doesn't work for this or that, etc.
What's the target market for the TSX? It's mostly the 20-30 something year old. How many 20-30 something year olds don't know how to burn CDs? Not many.

It doesn't make sense to include Bluetooth, upgraded Navi, Hands Free, XM, iPod integration, etc and then NOT include MP3 CD playback. BMW and Infiniti all have it, so why doesn't Acura when it would have cost them practically NOTHING.
Old 11-10-2005 | 07:38 PM
  #248  
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Its really not because they can't, its because they don't want to deal with the issues later on. And no, its not simple software to let it play mp3 players, theres some hardware install but not much i'd say though. However, even to change that one piece of hardware cost millions. You can't think that oh yea, just add this and its done. Whats a negative trait about mass production is that the machines it takes to make them cost millions, and to change one thing on the product costs millions to change the machine. So its not virtually nothing. Heres a good way of looking at it. - why do drive though ATM's have braille Bumps on them when no blind person is going to be driving up to one?, simply because the cost it takes for making such a small change is simply not worth it - (now if you apply that backwards, it costs alot to remove something, it costs alot to add something as well)

So even if they get all that done, you still have to worry about compatibility issues with certain mp3 formatts. I know its not hard to create a cd and i know its cheap. But people are going to run into problems with their mp3's. Its bound to happen, and not everyone 20-30 is tech savvy. If anythign, the most tech savvy is those under 20 right now.

I'm extremely tech savvy but after taking economics courses and marketing courses, theres a huge aspect that consumers miss out. And those are hidden costs that companies evaluate. I'm sure acura has considered adding MP3 cds to their cars, but they didn't and its probably for a good reason. That reason is just that the cost won't compensate for the benefit. They're still going to sell this many cars, and they're still going to have people buy the mp3 cd player.

The blue tooth and the other upgrades were added because there was probably a huge demand for them. I've seen people ask, why isn't there memory seats, we want bt, I wish i had a way to listen to my mp3 player in the car, +the whole ipod craze, - how people complain about how crappy their mp3 cd player was - then in the end its easy. If I was Acura, i wouldn't have added mp3 cd player. Its just not worth it. You can't as a corporation justify why not adding an mp3 cd player is going to hurt the image, and it certainly won't bring you more profit.

However, if acura does replace the RSX with a sports coupe next year, I think they should add the mp3 cd player to that one. Mainly because the market is younger, and also since they're coming from a new car, creating something new, in terms of adding a feature, is relatively cheaper than modifying something old.
Old 11-10-2005 | 07:44 PM
  #249  
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oh yeah, and about your comment on how all dvd players have mp3 formatts.

Do people have trouble with it, compatibility issues with it? You betcha. My dvd player which costed me about 300 bucks couldn't recognize some of my mp3 formatts. That doesn't bug me cause i didn't expect it to - but sony, pioneer, toshiba, Lg - they all get phone calls from customers telling them how their mp3 player doesnt work. Okay the'll send you to a tech dude and he'll try to clear it up with you. If acura has problems - no mechanic is going to tell you why it doesn't work, no sales rep (at least not a lot) will solve your computer problems, and acura does not hire technicians as electronics companies do. Again, acura does not want to deal with problems that really aren't associated with a car....Yes they'll tell you why cars not started, or what to do if your windshield breaks, or what to do when your lights go out on your console - they won't however deal with "my mp3 formatt doesn't work and i encoded it using X program with x bitrates and htz, and burned it on this and that etc etc..why doesn't it read?"
Old 11-10-2005 | 09:18 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by feliz
I can't believe we're not seeing any driving reports of the 06 seeing as how this is the release date in the US. Not at the dealers yet?

My dealer just called and said my 06, ordered two months ago, will be unloaded off the ship the 15th or 16th and that he'll pick it up at the docks himself and drive it to his store and I'll have it soon after.
Well felix I'n not quite as jealous now. My salesperson called me today and mine will be arriving on the 25/26 of November. I will be out of the country then but by the time they do the car setup, rustproofing leather and paint protection, clear bra, remote starter and put on my winter wheels it should be ready on my return.

Boy am I ever going to be Excited on the flight home.



Excited
Old 11-10-2005 | 10:53 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by acn684
oh yeah, and about your comment on how all dvd players have mp3 formatts.

Do people have trouble with it, compatibility issues with it? You betcha. My dvd player which costed me about 300 bucks couldn't recognize some of my mp3 formatts. That doesn't bug me cause i didn't expect it to - but sony, pioneer, toshiba, Lg - they all get phone calls from customers telling them how their mp3 player doesnt work. Okay the'll send you to a tech dude and he'll try to clear it up with you. If acura has problems - no mechanic is going to tell you why it doesn't work, no sales rep (at least not a lot) will solve your computer problems, and acura does not hire technicians as electronics companies do. Again, acura does not want to deal with problems that really aren't associated with a car....Yes they'll tell you why cars not started, or what to do if your windshield breaks, or what to do when your lights go out on your console - they won't however deal with "my mp3 formatt doesn't work and i encoded it using X program with x bitrates and htz, and burned it on this and that etc etc..why doesn't it read?"
Your logic is flawed and you failed to address some of my points. If "compatibility" is such a problem, then why do DVD players continue to have that feature? Why is MP3 CD playback becoming an increasingly common feature in electronics? Must be because of increased "consumer demand".

And you make too many assumptions about Acura and customer support with MP3s. So if they don't want to deal with that, why do they even bother selling an MP3 CD player add-on for the TSX? Now think about this, standard MP3 CD playback is offered with these car companies:

BMW
Infiniti
Hyundai
Lincoln
Scion
Ford
Mercury
Chevy
Pontiac
Chrysler
Jeep
Saturn

Basically, if this many car companies offer it, what you say doesn't make any sense. I bet you that within a couple of years, Acura will start offering this feature too. And the TSX is geared toward a 20-30 something year old crowd.
Old 11-10-2005 | 11:03 PM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by otokoyama
It doesn't make sense to include Bluetooth, upgraded Navi, Hands Free, XM, iPod integration, etc and then NOT include MP3 CD playback. BMW and Infiniti all have it, so why doesn't Acura when it would have cost them practically NOTHING.
Well, acn684 said a lot so I'm not going to rehash it. But something else we should probably take into account: Apple and Acura just made a deal to have Acura include iPod connectivity in their cars. Both of the companies (presumably) are going to benefit from this; Apple is assuming that Acura owners will be like "Neat, it will work well and easily connect," and Acura is like "Neat, people will think we're down with the tech crowd."

What format does Apple use? NOT mp3s. They use AACs, primarily, and M4As, both of which traditional MP3 CD players have trouble reading. Plus, Acura wants you to buy either their iPod connectivity kit or the mp3 cd player. Apple wants you to buy their iPod. Acura and and Apple just signed a deal. It makes no sense for Acura to suddenly be like "Screw our work with Apple and our addition of the aux jack, let's integrate mp3 capability!"

It sucks, but it's the market. Companies are not going to shoot themselves in the foot like that; when BMW first came out with the iPod integration, their next model year (I think actually two model years) did not have mp3 playback, and probably for similar, trade-deal reasons. It's only because the BMW integration sucked that people still asked for it, I bet.

Anyways, this too will come to Acura head units. Until then, bite the bullet, bring your player, or get the dealer or aftermarket add-ons. But it would be false to assume that Acura was unintentionally behind the curve or that they didn't realize it wouldn't cost much (fabrication and plant redesigns aside). They probably did, they just didn't care.

-rpc
Old 11-10-2005 | 11:56 PM
  #253  
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^iPods do play MP3s and I bet you more people play MP3s on iPods than Apple's own AAC format. As for iPod integration, BMW has that AND MP3 CD playback capability. And you can pretty much get an aftermarket iPod for most cars these days.

Originally Posted by rpcmx
But it would be false to assume that Acura was unintentionally behind the curve or that they didn't realize it wouldn't cost much (fabrication and plant redesigns aside). They probably did, they just didn't care.

-rpc
It certainly wasn't cost, b/c it would have been anything compared to those other upgrades they put in. I think it was a combination of being behind the curve and not caring. It isn't the biggest thing in the world, but a little disappointing when it really wouldn't have cost anything.
Old 11-10-2005 | 11:59 PM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by rpcmx
...Apple and Acura just made a deal to have Acura include iPod connectivity in their cars. Both of the companies (presumably) are going to benefit from this...

...Acura wants you to buy either their iPod connectivity kit or the mp3 cd player. Apple wants you to buy their iPod. Acura and and Apple just signed a deal. It makes no sense for Acura to ... integrate mp3 capability!"
They are doing what is most profitable.

In addition, the iPod is very popular. However, it's not as popular as you might think. Smart marketing, hype, and buzz-control make it seem like everyone has one. More people have a CDRW in their computers than an iPods.
Old 11-11-2005 | 08:54 AM
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...and a surprising number of us use WAVs on the iPod for the best sound quality. It's still more convenient to have 8 CDs on an iPod than to juggle the CDs/cases and store them in the car.

Acura's support of MP3 playback on a CD would in no way dilute their support of separate media players. It would just be one more "tech" feature to add to the list.
Old 11-11-2005 | 09:04 AM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by kenzo
...and a surprising number of us use WAVs on the iPod for the best sound quality. It's still more convenient to have 8 CDs on an iPod than to juggle the CDs/cases and store them in the car.
Really? Why not use Apple Lossless and get 14 CDs on your iPod? Better yet, why not use Apple's new AAC VBR at 192bps and have room for several hundred CDs? If you think you're hearing degradation from encoding at that setting, try doing a blind test (checkout ABX testing software) and I'm all but certain you'll see you can't really tell a difference. BTW, what do you use to convert the CDs to WAV (because that's just as important as how you encode)? I use Exact Audio Copy (it's freeware) to rip along with a plug-in that has iTunes do the encoding.
Old 11-11-2005 | 09:08 AM
  #257  
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ehh screw the mp3 cd and mp3 player integration... They should just put in a mp3 player that reads from SD card or CF...drag and drop... yeah yeah...the cost to them and whatever, but as customers, we have our right to demand from the manufacturers right?

I think the newer Audi's have this as an option, plus, I think this will be the next popular format of in-dash stereo's...
Old 11-11-2005 | 11:05 AM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by otokoyama
Your logic is flawed and you failed to address some of my points. If "compatibility" is such a problem, then why do DVD players continue to have that feature? Why is MP3 CD playback becoming an increasingly common feature in electronics? Must be because of increased "consumer demand".

And you make too many assumptions about Acura and customer support with MP3s. So if they don't want to deal with that, why do they even bother selling an MP3 CD player add-on for the TSX? Now think about this, standard MP3 CD playback is offered with these car companies:

BMW
Infiniti
Hyundai
Lincoln
Scion
Ford
Mercury
Chevy
Pontiac
Chrysler
Jeep
Saturn

Basically, if this many car companies offer it, what you say doesn't make any sense. I bet you that within a couple of years, Acura will start offering this feature too. And the TSX is geared toward a 20-30 something year old crowd.
My logic is not flawed. Again as I stated, it cost millions to add mp3 compatibility. Look at the cars that came out with mp3 playback, they're new models. Not revisions of the old. If not that, their head unit is a seperate component or something easily changed. X5's do not come with mp3 standard, nor do the 5 series or the series w/o remakes. Like I said, when acura comes out with another remake such as the 07 RSX, they probably will include MP3 compatibility because its a new product, you can add features to it easily. But since the TSX has been out for a while, and how integrated the head unit is, you just can't stop the production of old head units, change the multi million dollar machine, scrap all those old head units, and start making ones with mp3 compatibility. Okay maybe you can, then you make up for the loss by charging us even more? I don't think so.

Why did they add the other features such as bluetooth and memory seats? Well the bt they already have being produced so its no biggy to put it into the car (its not like they have to redesign the car to do it). How bout memory seats? (its the same as bt, they have it already, and they just need to wire it up).

MP3 cd compatibility - you're goign to have to take out switch out the old head unit with a new one that can read mp3 cds. And something as integrated as the TSX head unit is, its way too costly. Thats why its a seperate option, instead of modifying you add.

And why the aux was added, is more ubiquitous. More people carry around mp3 players than they do mp3 cds. I don't care if its an ipod, irivier, creative, its still more prevelant. And theres a good number of people that carry regular cds even over mp3 cds. Its just that the number of MP3 cd users is tiny compared to how many people use regular cds and mp3 players. Demand is measured by the whole, not what a few people want.
Old 11-11-2005 | 11:14 AM
  #259  
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I'm like you, I'd love to see them add the MP3 - cd capability. I'm sure i'll have some use for it one way or the other. I just can't imagine how you can't find a good tune then at that point with mp3 payer, xm, fm, cd, cd mp3's...but I digress.

Its a feature i'd love to have as well, being someone who loves new tech and usually ends up buying it before other people do - which is why i waited for the 06. But I know mp3 cd players is not going to happen for the TSX while they still continue this model. Maybe 08, 09 model will use it. I'm sure 08, 09 model will use it by then. But when that time comes - BT enabled MP3 players will probably dominate the market and probably DVD-A's will be standard by then.
Old 11-11-2005 | 11:20 AM
  #260  
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Originally Posted by otokoyama
^iPods do play MP3s and I bet you more people play MP3s on iPods than Apple's own AAC format. As for iPod integration, BMW has that AND MP3 CD playback capability. And you can pretty much get an aftermarket iPod for most cars these days.



It certainly wasn't cost, b/c it would have been anything compared to those other upgrades they put in. I think it was a combination of being behind the curve and not caring. It isn't the biggest thing in the world, but a little disappointing when it really wouldn't have cost anything.



AAC seems better to me...i've got +/- 4000 songs on my ipod and they are ALL in AAC except about 25...and i can always tell which ones those 25 are. maybe they were ripped poorly, but they were all done at different times, even w/ different programs.

i find the AAC to be just fine....and since it's the default, i bet most people who own ipods just leave it that way when they rip their cd's...especially the older crowd.
Old 11-11-2005 | 03:39 PM
  #261  
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We just bought an 06 Civic coupe and it has mp3 and wma built in... yes a civic... it is a very nice car btw... it also has speed sensitive volume control and a one touch moon roof switch on the ceiling. Sometimes don't understand Honda at all. I will probably get the 06 TSX for myself, but I am impressed with the civic's features for its cost.
Old 11-11-2005 | 04:04 PM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by z-tec


AAC seems better to me...i've got +/- 4000 songs on my ipod and they are ALL in AAC except about 25...and i can always tell which ones those 25 are. maybe they were ripped poorly, but they were all done at different times, even w/ different programs.

i find the AAC to be just fine....and since it's the default, i bet most people who own ipods just leave it that way when they rip their cd's...especially the older crowd.
Here here!

To get the quality I hear from 128kbps AAC, I need at least a 320kbps MP3 (which is a much bigger file). All the CDs I buy, I rip at 192kbps AAC, and they sound great.

As far as MP3 CDs, I'd rather just get it over with and slap my ENTIRE collection on my iPod (which is what I do). You show me an MP3 CD that can hold 4800 songs, and you get a gold star (I personally own 99% of those songs as either CDs or iTunes Music Store purchases). As well, you show me an MP3 CD interface that works as well as an iPod for managing 1000s of songs, and I'll give you another gold star.

I'll likely be getting the iPod integration option on my 06, which I think will be quite cool (having your music on your iPod, whilst still being able to control it from your steering wheel/stereo controls).

I do however think that if I didn't have an iPod already, I would be considering other alternatives.....but in the end, I'd take having the ease of use of handling almost 5000 songs at any time over having to make CD after CD of MP3s and having a crappy interface to use them (And, in my experience, CDRWs are highly finicky....it seems like you have to work pretty hard to find just the right disc brand and the right burner for the discs to *maybe* play on most devices).
Old 11-12-2005 | 08:07 PM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by acn684
My logic is not flawed. Again as I stated, it cost millions to add mp3 compatibility. Look at the cars that came out with mp3 playback, they're new models. Not revisions of the old.
Nah dude, it doesn't cost millions to add MP3 compatilbity when everybody else is doing it. Scales of economy.

Second of all, it might have cost that much $$$ to integrate iPOD functionality since they have to license that from Apple.

Third of all, Acura doesn't make it's own stereos, they outsource them. In my CL it was Alpine who made them, not sure about the TSXs, but I bet it's Apline. Alpine basically doesn't sell a headunit anymore that DOESN'T have MP3 playback. Also remember that it's ALL SOFTWARE based. So no new hardware is needed

As for new car models, no some of them were revisions. All it takes is a small change of head unit. Hell, they're already doing that with the 06 TSX's by adding upgrades to Navi, Bluetooth, Hands Free, and iPod functions. Adding MP3 CD playback woudln't have cost jack compared to those.

Anyways, I have a Creative MP3 player, but having MP3 CD would have been awesome. I could burn all 9 Beethoven symphonies at 192KBps on a single CD and just leave it in my car.
Old 11-12-2005 | 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by otokoyama
Nah dude, it doesn't cost millions to add MP3 compatilbity when everybody else is doing it. Scales of economy.

Second of all, it might have cost that much $$$ to integrate iPOD functionality since they have to license that from Apple.

Third of all, Acura doesn't make it's own stereos, they outsource them. In my CL it was Alpine who made them, not sure about the TSXs, but I bet it's Apline. Alpine basically doesn't sell a headunit anymore that DOESN'T have MP3 playback. Also remember that it's ALL SOFTWARE based. So no new hardware is needed

As for new car models, no some of them were revisions. All it takes is a small change of head unit. Hell, they're already doing that with the 06 TSX's by adding upgrades to Navi, Bluetooth, Hands Free, and iPod functions. Adding MP3 CD playback woudln't have cost jack compared to those.

Anyways, I have a Creative MP3 player, but having MP3 CD would have been awesome. I could burn all 9 Beethoven symphonies at 192KBps on a single CD and just leave it in my car.
I didn't say it costed millions to add mp3 capability, I said it costed millions to add mp3 capability to something already designed. Thats why I said - look at the new car revisions, they have mp3 capability. Look at old model changes, they wont. Don't tell me about scales of economies when what you said clearly shows you don't understand it. Scales of economies implies that producing multiple of the same product which has high fixed costs will be cheaper in the end. (better to produce millions of something which the machine costed 10 million to build than to produce 1). they're not going to increase that fixed cost some more for a car that only seems to see about 3 more years of its life.

Next, the apple integration might not be a licensing issue. It could very well be a partnership. How so you ask? Well they figure for every ipod addon they sell, they probably have the purchaser buy and ipod if they don't already own one. Also its free marketing for apple. I'm willing to bet that if you showed your friends that hey look i can control an ipod directly and also have good quality coming out of your speakers - your friends will look into ipod compatibilities for their cars, if not their next car.

Yes you are right, acura doesn't make their own. But they do make their own head unit. You simply cannot ask alpine to give you something new, after all they're bounded by a contract to alpine that states how many units of type-x cd player they want. And acura is going to ask them to change that just for 2 years? Major corporations point of view, not profitable. In addition, mp3 cd capability is not all software - theres hardware involved. How can I be so sure? Think about it this way, if all you could do was change the software to of cd players today to play mp3 players- they'd be an insane number of hackers/modders flashing their cd drives putting in the mp3 software so that it can read it. People hacked the navi to do many things for them, so why havn't they hacked the cd players with mp3 capability? Its not possible w/o some hardware change (and yes like i stated before - to change that one peice of hardware cost lots of money to change because of the fixed cost involved in making the original head unit.

As for the head unit change argument. Here is what is mainly added to the 06 in terms of technology. Navi, Bluetooth, Memory seats, MID. I'll break it down. Navi is a seperate component. Alot of the change came from the software (CD) and the unit that goes in the trunk (seperate unit). Next BT, it does not affect the head unit what so ever. The BT component is directly inputed into the MID, and also the BT that goes to the navi - has already been worked out in the TL (again no redesign). Memory seats - again does not affect Head unit. and MID - does not affect head unit. Notice how the upgrades did not affect the head unit

And finally, yes it would be awesome to have mp3 cd. But then think about those that would say the opposite. "i'd like to have mp3 capability, but how cool would it be if i could plug it in directly instead of these stupid fm transmitters." But you do realize with the aux plug u can use a mp3 cd player in the armrest - and extend a remote out to whereever you want.
Old 11-12-2005 | 09:57 PM
  #265  
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Ahh, this is such a crazy argument.

A) Yes, in fact, hardware changes are required for MP3 capability, from what I understand. Colloquially, acn684's point about hackers modding their cd players makes sense even without hard data.

B) Nav, Bluetooth, MID, Memory Seats, etc. were already on Acura's plate before this MMC. They just shifted over the same supplies they use in other cars into this one.

C) I'd be willing to bet that the headunit is not made by Acura, but is designed to their specs... and to change it drastically (meaning, outside the realm of technology Acura already has developed, owned or licensed) would cost a fortune.

D) Economies of scale in this case applies to the fact that I mentioned earlier: Acura already has rights to the new technology that they put in the TSX. They do not, as far as I know, have the right to a MP3-CD technology, or at least, I don't see it in any of their vehichles where the HUs are obviously not completely made by someone else. Therefore, since the technology is already owned, the fixed cost of buying/licensing/developing it are defrayed over many models, lowering per-unit costs, etc. etc.

E) Everything electronic, stereo-wise anyway, is probably outsourced, but not as a complete item. Alpine probably doesn't priovide a completed headunit to Acura, they just provide the infrastructure for the electronics Acura has already put into the cabin of the car (which might be outsourced itself). In this day of very integrated cabin electronics, it would seem odd for a company to outsource the complete interior electronic/stereo system, since it has to interface with so much equipment, much of which is probably proprietary.

-rpc
Old 11-13-2005 | 06:07 PM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by acn684
I didn't say it costed millions to add mp3 capability, I said it costed millions to add mp3 capability to something already designed. Thats why I said - look at the new car revisions, they have mp3 capability. Look at old model changes, they wont. Don't tell me about scales of economies when what you said clearly shows you don't understand it. Scales of economies implies that producing multiple of the same product which has high fixed costs will be cheaper in the end. (better to produce millions of something which the machine costed 10 million to build than to produce 1). they're not going to increase that fixed cost some more for a car that only seems to see about 3 more years of its life.
There seems to be a little communication problem. Read what I said with regards to "scales of economy". Everybody is adding MP3 functionality in their headunits. Alpine, Sony, Pioneer basically all have MP3 playback in theirs. Who makes Acura's? I'm 99% sure it's still Alpine (since it's been that way forever). Acura wouldn't be reinventing the wheel by adding MP3 as the parts are mainstream. They buy their parts from Alpine, who puts them in every headunit, hence "scales of economy". See where I'm going?

Next, the apple integration might not be a licensing issue. It could very well be a partnership. How so you ask? Well they figure for every ipod addon they sell, they probably have the purchaser buy and ipod if they don't already own one. Also its free marketing for apple. I'm willing to bet that if you showed your friends that hey look i can control an ipod directly and also have good quality coming out of your speakers - your friends will look into ipod compatibilities for their cars, if not their next car.
If you know anything about Apple, it's not a partnership. It's licensing. Acura has to pay fees for iPod compatibility.


Yes you are right, acura doesn't make their own. But they do make their own head unit. You simply cannot ask alpine to give you something new, after all they're bounded by a contract to alpine that states how many units of type-x cd player they want. And acura is going to ask them to change that just for 2 years? Major corporations point of view, not profitable. In addition, mp3 cd capability is not all software - theres hardware involved. How can I be so sure? Think about it this way, if all you could do was change the software to of cd players today to play mp3 players- they'd be an insane number of hackers/modders flashing their cd drives putting in the mp3 software so that it can read it. People hacked the navi to do many things for them, so why havn't they hacked the cd players with mp3 capability? Its not possible w/o some hardware change (and yes like i stated before - to change that one peice of hardware cost lots of money to change because of the fixed cost involved in making the original head unit.
Hardware contracts are usually negociated by quantity and Acura already did that with some of the changes they made. Look at the wheels, head/tailights, foglights, bumpers, etc. Acura does not make it's wheels or lights. Example of other car companies adding MP3 playback later; the first batch of G35s did not have MP3 playback, but they do now.

As for hardware, it's there in the TSX. The NAV runs on Windows CE and uses a Hitachi SH4 processor...more than enough for MP3 playback. I never said it wouldn't require any engineering. Look at the Aux port. Adding it, that is significant change in design as well in terms of rewiring and face plate. If the engineers were going to do that, they could have added MP3 playback.

As for Acura making midterm changes. I drive a 97 3.0 CL. But for the 98 version, they added steering wheel controls for the audio. This required significant changes and parts in the head unit. I could not add the steering wheel controls if I wanted to (even if I hacked it). They made this change 1 year after my car was introduced. Adding MP3 playback to a model that's been out for 2 years is nothing compared to that.

And finally, yes it would be awesome to have mp3 cd. But then think about those that would say the opposite. "i'd like to have mp3 capability, but how cool would it be if i could plug it in directly instead of these stupid fm transmitters." But you do realize with the aux plug u can use a mp3 cd player in the armrest - and extend a remote out to whereever you want.
Yes, that is a valid point. But having both would have been better and cost insignificant. My point was the competition has it and so should Acura. Cost is especially nothing compared to some of those other questionable "ugrades". The front/rear bumpers and wheels are ugly IMO and you know that cost Acura something to upgrade.
Old 11-13-2005 | 06:21 PM
  #267  
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what is going on with this tread?
Old 11-13-2005 | 06:59 PM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by jiggaman
what is going on with this tread?
Seriously.
Old 11-13-2005 | 08:34 PM
  #269  
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Maybe to help get back on thread which is "It's Heeeeere!!". Does anyone have one yet?

Feliz is suppose to get his later this week. I haven't heard if anyone is suppose to get it sooner.

Has anyone other than our Island brothers seen an 06 yet up close and personal?



Excited
Old 11-13-2005 | 08:34 PM
  #270  
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Here's an idea...how about an MP3 thread where you guys can argue 'til your blue because this whole thing is reeaallllyyy getting old.

Has anyone seen the '06 in person yet??
Old 11-13-2005 | 08:38 PM
  #271  
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Lol...
Old 11-13-2005 | 10:40 PM
  #272  
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I'm picking mine up in a few weeks. RBP/Ebony/6MT/Nav. Nice.
Old 11-13-2005 | 11:21 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by otokoyama
There seems to be a little communication problem. Read what I said with regards to "scales of economy". Everybody is adding MP3 functionality in their headunits. Alpine, Sony, Pioneer basically all have MP3 playback in theirs. Who makes Acura's? I'm 99% sure it's still Alpine (since it's been that way forever). Acura wouldn't be reinventing the wheel by adding MP3 as the parts are mainstream. They buy their parts from Alpine, who puts them in every headunit, hence "scales of economy". See where I'm going?



If you know anything about Apple, it's not a partnership. It's licensing. Acura has to pay fees for iPod compatibility.




Hardware contracts are usually negociated by quantity and Acura already did that with some of the changes they made. Look at the wheels, head/tailights, foglights, bumpers, etc. Acura does not make it's wheels or lights. Example of other car companies adding MP3 playback later; the first batch of G35s did not have MP3 playback, but they do now.

As for hardware, it's there in the TSX. The NAV runs on Windows CE and uses a Hitachi SH4 processor...more than enough for MP3 playback. I never said it wouldn't require any engineering. Look at the Aux port. Adding it, that is significant change in design as well in terms of rewiring and face plate. If the engineers were going to do that, they could have added MP3 playback.

As for Acura making midterm changes. I drive a 97 3.0 CL. But for the 98 version, they added steering wheel controls for the audio. This required significant changes and parts in the head unit. I could not add the steering wheel controls if I wanted to (even if I hacked it). They made this change 1 year after my car was introduced. Adding MP3 playback to a model that's been out for 2 years is nothing compared to that.



Yes, that is a valid point. But having both would have been better and cost insignificant. My point was the competition has it and so should Acura. Cost is especially nothing compared to some of those other questionable "ugrades". The front/rear bumpers and wheels are ugly IMO and you know that cost Acura something to upgrade.

an sh-4 can probably decode mp3s fine, but it probably couldnt caclulate the maps and mp3s at the same time.
Old 11-14-2005 | 06:16 PM
  #274  
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Originally Posted by excited
Maybe to help get back on thread which is "It's Heeeeere!!". Does anyone have one yet?

Feliz is suppose to get his later this week. I haven't heard if anyone is suppose to get it sooner.

Has anyone other than our Island brothers seen an 06 yet up close and personal?



Excited
I was in to the dealer yesterday and they are sticking to their story that the car will be here this week. I think by "this week" they mean at the docks. They claim once it's off the boat they can go down and pick it up anytime so we'll see, I'll believe it when I see it.
Old 11-14-2005 | 07:56 PM
  #275  
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Still no word on mine, built Oct. 20. Of course, it's a long trip to the wrong side of the country...
Old 11-14-2005 | 09:23 PM
  #276  
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Originally Posted by Irfo
Still no word on mine, built Oct. 20. Of course, it's a long trip to the wrong side of the country...
At least you know when yours was built, not that it helps. They've changed their story several times on the build date for mine as well as when I will be getting it so I'm not holding my breath. I'd assume if yours was built Oct 20 it will be one of the first ones over.

I can't believe no one besides Colin has driven or even seen a 06 yet, I thought they were going to be in the showrooms Nov.9?
Old 11-14-2005 | 09:51 PM
  #277  
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I never thought of Nov. 9 as a showroom date, just as pricing release/website update date. I ordered mine in August, and my dealer has long told me it'll be in his first shipment (I would hope so), but he's also said all along that would be mid-November at best.

I've called him once a month since, and that's enough. Don't want to give him the wrong idea, cuz I also really like buying cars from the skeleton crew between Christmas and New Years...
Old 11-14-2005 | 10:14 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Irfo
I never thought of Nov. 9 as a showroom date, just as pricing release/website update date.
That seems to be the case here as well where the "release" date was Nov 15 but no cars are in site. They haven't upgraded our web site yet though.

Like you, I'm not in any real hurry and didn't really expect the car until later in the month or early Dec., I really only think about it when I get on the forum.
Old 11-14-2005 | 10:38 PM
  #279  
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I'm sure there've been discussions around here of what day of the week is best for a car to be built... in the distant past I remember Mondays and Fridays were considered bad, and that probably still makes sense... probably means Wednesdays are best... but I think I'm likin' my Thursday build date. Thursdays were always pretty good to me.
Old 11-14-2005 | 10:53 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by feliz
That seems to be the case here as well where the "release" date was Nov 15 but no cars are in site. They haven't upgraded our web site yet though.

Like you, I'm not in any real hurry and didn't really expect the car until later in the month or early Dec., I really only think about it when I get on the forum.
Feliz I think that your TSX will arrive later this week at the docks. I suspect that our vehicles are on the same boat. Mine is expected on the 25th so if you backtrack the unloading time and the loading and travel time of the trucks it makes sense that yours will arrive on or shortly after the 15th.

My TSX is a refined little lady, so I hope your's doesn't make any untowards advances. You know how those onboard ship romances can be.



Excited



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