6SpeedTA95

Well guys first of all I'd like to say hello to everyone. I plan on buying a sport sedan by years end and tops on my list are the IS300 and TSX. I've posted this on several boards and since I'm new here I figured I'd post it here as well....

Well guys I test drove a couple TSX's and a couple IS300's this weekend. As some of you know I'm beginning my research and test drives for my next car and first on the list is the IS300. Well lets just say that things have changed a bit...

The IS300:
I dont have to tell you guys about the IS300 but I'll do it anyways. The IS300 is in my opinion by far the best looking car on the outside. It is simply great in the looks department. I have always loved this car and drive a couple of them and pushing them fairly hard was an eye opener. While it definately looks the best on the outside it is not as good on the inside. Believe it or not there was more road noise in the IS300 than there was in the TSX. Wind noise was the same, but the IS300 had more road noise despite 20,000 fewer miles. The steering on the IS300 was great, road feel was pretty good second to BMW in my book. Turn in was also excellent. The clutch also had the best feel, but was not as linear as the clutch in the TSX which runs contrary to what you'd expect after reading about them. The interior on the IS was very nice, seats were equally comfortable but the TSX felt more roomy especially in the backseat. Also the stereo as good as it is in the IS300 it doesn't measure up to the stereo in the TSX. The IS300 had better handling and it felt more tied down than the Acura front driver. However at 90mph the acura's were significantly quieter.

The TSX:
The TSX is plainer on the outside than the IS300 and it doesn't have the "Lexus" badge which for some people is a big deal. The TSX isn't a bad looking car, it is handsome but its not as sporty or as great looking as the IS300. However, once inside the Acura definately has the better interior. It's laid out perfect and being tall I felt the driving position was significantly better. The Acura steering was great, by far the best front driver I've ever driven, but it wasn't as good as the Lexus. Having said that, torque steer was non existant. Which is a good thing, steering turn in is instant but the feel just isn't up to par with the Lexus. Abrupt turning and hard cornering are all handled nicely by the TSX but the IS300 definately has an edge in this category. When it comes to the fun to drive factor, however, I'd rate the two as fairly similar. The transmission in the TSX is much better than it is in the IS300, the clutch doesn't provide as much feed back but its linear in its takeup and the gear changes are great. Some of you are probably wondering why I havent' addressed the power issue...well here it is the folks that criticize the 6 speed TSX's for being slow are just flat wrong. Either they've never really driven one or are extremely biased. The seat of the pants meter said the Acura had a bit of an edge in the power department and my wife agreed. While that is far from acurate I'd say the two are probably fairly evenly matched on the power end at WOT. Now below 3500rpm the Lexus has a clear advantage and its a big one, but from 4000rpm onward the TSX feels faster. Whether or not it is I don't know I didn't time anything. The TSX was quieter at speed especially as velocity builds and the stereo is great.

In summary I'll probably take whichever car I can get the best deal on. They both have pro's and con's and quite frankly the TSX is a fantastic car and the cheaper insurance 22/mo (I called and checked) and the significantly better mileage may be enough to push me that direction when its time to write the check.

Here's how I'd compare the two with eachother

TSX/IS300

Engine 9.0/8.0
Transmission 9.0/8.0
Brakes 7.5/9.5
Suspension 8.0/9.5
Feel 8.5/9.5
Fun to drive 9.0/9.0
Ride 9.0/9.0
Seat Comfort 9.0/8.5
Driving Position 9.5/8.5
Wind and Road Noise 9.5/8.5
Interior Design 9.5/7.5
Fit and Finish 9.0/8.5
Exterior Design 7.0/9.5

Overall I'd have to say its pretty damn close but I'd have to say the Acura is probably the better car I'd score it a 9.0/8.5

dom

I presume you mean IS250?

6SpeedTA95

No I mean IS300...just like the post says IS300...I am not buying a new car, I'm buying a used car. Sorry you guys dont know me, I post on about 5 other boards on a regular basis so they have a lot more background info than you guys do, sorry for any confusion

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Pretty solid objective test.

So were you test driving new or used vehicles? And are you looking to buy new or used?

HoRRo

Odd that you like the Lexus steering..... overall a decent comparison. I'm assuming cost/price is not a factor for you? As it was not mentioned, or I am blind (most likely).

CKcentral

If you want a sporty look with the TSX then get the OEM Body kit and a spoiler. I personally didnt like how the TSX looked w/o them.

I was also thinking about the IS300 when I was choosing my car. I was getting a used one so they were a little more cheaper then a new one, but I couldnt get an IS300 for even close to the same price I got my TSX. I think the interior of the TSX is MUCH better then that of the IS300. Also, the IS300 is a V6 and only has 15 more HP??? thats just a shame.

NJTSXMan

Very informative post. The only thing I do not agree with is the looks. I never liked the looks of the IS300, and I think the TSX is one of the sexier cars on the road..especially with the body kit.. lol. But the IS250/350 is a different story. I like the looks of the new IS a lot.

fdl

I think the IS300 looks a little too riced out.

6SpeedTA95

Why? The lexus steering in the IS300 has long been praised as one of the best available and it is.

Cost/price is a factor which is why I think I'll end up with a TSX. 20/mo cheaper to insure about 3k cheaper for an equivelant year car and much better gas mileage. I still may wind up with an IS300 if I find a sweet deal...and considering I wont be really serious about buying for another 6 months I could change my mind. But I was totally blown away by the TSX...

As for looks I hate the body kit/spoiler on the TSX. But looks are sooo subjective its almost impossible to argue looks.

dom

I wouldn't look at an IS300 for the following reason's.
- Poor fuel consumption.
- Tight Interior (Rear seats do not fold 60/40)
- Dated styling IMO.

I think the TSX is a far better car overall than the 300. Good luck with your selection.

waTSX

^^

IMO, the TSX has a far tighter, sportier look than the IS300. The Lexus looks very dated to me.

waTSX

IMO, the TSX has a far tighter, sportier look than the IS300. The Lexus looks very dated to me.

6SpeedTA95

See I think the Lexus is timeless, I realize I'm in a minority everywhere as my wife, mother in law, mom and father in law all like the Acura better, but I've always had a thing for the IS300. But again its looks and everyone has a differing opinion in that area.

curls

If you want tohelp out the cornering on the TSX even more, there are two MUST-do's:

1. Better tires than the stock Michelin MXM4's. They SUCK.
2. upgraded Rear Sway Bar. Comptech or Progress. Both will make the car even more responsive to steering wheen input, and, make the car corner flatter. Definately the best $100 upgrade you can get.

Newplay1

My girl has 2002 auto silver IS300.
I have 2004 6spd/Navi Arctic blue.

TSX/IS300

Engine 8.0/9.0
Transmission 8.0/9.0
Brakes 8/7.5
Suspension 9.0/8.5
Feel 9.5/8.5
Fun to drive 8.0/8.5
Ride 9.0/8.0
Seat Comfort 9.5/7.5
Driving Position 10/7.5
Wind and Road Noise 8.5/7.5
Interior Design 8.5/6.5
Fit and Finish 8.5/6.5
Exterior Design 8.5/8.0

Some scores a little low on the IS300 because of new IS250/350 and is very dated released back in yr'2000.

6SpeedTA95

I'm fixing to make a new thread discussing just that I welcome all input with reguards to mods in that thread...its busy at work but I'll getit up as soon as possible.

waTSX

I'm surprised you rate the IS's tranny over the TSX's. I thought it was generally accepted that the TSX has one of the best.

6SpeedTA95

I like the TSX tranny better as well but more clutch feel would be nice, as I said in my post.

6SpeedTA95

Well my mods thread got moved, and then locked...didn't realize there was a modding forum here

CKcentral

I really liked the look of the IS300 and that is why I considered it. I think it looks classy and sporty all in one.

dom

Nothing against you personally. The subject of modding the TSX has been covered several times. Have a look around parts and performance and you'll find answers to all your questions.

Search.

Hondata
Injen
K&N
Comptech
Progress

Have a look through Wheels and Suspension as well.

6SpeedTA95

Oh I know, I should have looked at the other forums...my fault

97AcuraCL

hey i read this on OT .... :-)

vwong

The IS300 has inline 6, not V6. The new IS250/350 has V6.

6SpeedTA95

CKcentral

Thanks for the correction, but the point out is that it is a 6 cylinder and not a 4 banger.

6SpeedTA95

ok??? But why is that relevant? The power outputs are similar

GIBSON6594

Are the 300's brakes really that bad to be considered worse than the TSX's?

6SpeedTA95

IS300 brakes felt a lot better than the TSX's but I didn't just rape the brakes though

GIBSON6594

rape?

6SpeedTA95

Beat on the brakes? hard braking, etc etc etc

peter_bigblock

I think he's referring to waTSX's brake ratings. 6SpeedTA95, excellent write-up, I'll be curious to know what you finally decide and why. I agree with almost everything you wrote, except for the looks where I, too, find the IS300 a little too ricey. But, as you pointed out a couple times, looks are mostly subjective.

I considered the IS300 in late-04 when I bot my TSX. I thought the TSX felt more playful and eager, and it was a good $5,000 less expensive. I figured (rightly) there were many mods I could do to really personalize my TSX for less than the price difference.

I can't imagine being "unhappy" with either car, they're both terrific in their own right and it comes down to what you want to spend and which one is for you. Nice job writing them up.

6SpeedTA95

Yeah thanks

I dont plan on doing forced induction with either car so we'll see what kind of deals I can find this fall when its buy time.

gigakev

I came from an '02 Manual IS300 w/Nav (very rare to have a manual AND Nav on the IS) to an '06 Manual TSX w/Nav...

My opinions below...

Clutch/Transmission:
Its funny that you say the clutch feel in the IS is better... The IS, quite honestly, had the worst manual transmission I have ever driven only to be outdone by the clutch (and this is in comparison to a couple American FWD cars)... The tranny and clutch both were heavy, clunky, and just made the car a pain to drive around town. They performed much better with spirited driving, but I very much prefer the TSX.

Nav:
The Nav in the TSX is MUCH better than the IS... (the main reason being that it is a touchscreen)... the overall polish of the interface is much better and you can enter destinations when moving. The one thing I wish Honda's Navs have that the DENSO unit in the IS did was a chime whenever it was about to give an instruction... helps to differentiate between the radio and the NAV.

Interior:
TSX, hands down! The IS has switchgear from a mid 90s camry. (Turn signal lever, a/c knobs, etc.) The TSX switchgear feels like butter. The leather in the IS is much nicer than the TSX (my IS had all leather seats as opposed to the standard leather+fake suede).

The TSX just has much nicer materials (with the exception of the leather) and has a much easier to read instrument cluster.

TSX is much quieter inside and has much less wind noise than the IS.


Exterior:
The IS was much more distinctive, but when parked side-by-side, I think I prefer the IS. Also, I liked the HIDs much better in the IS... (they weren't projectors, but seemed much brighter and didn't have the annoying bouncing line)

The IS had a full size spare w/ matching alloy wheel... (luckily never had to use it).

Engine:
The IS idled much quiter/smoother... but the TSX seems to be quieter/smoother in the upper revs and normal driving. IS had more torque, but the engine was not all that rev happy. TSX just seems like it wants to go fast.

Gas Mileage:
TSX TSX! (Best I ever got in the IS was 27 on the highway... city was about 19-22)

Handling:
The IS had the potential to handle better, but it really likes to oversteer and the trac control takes over and cuts power before you can have too much fun (you can, however, turn it off).

Overall:
For me, the TSX just feels like a "nicer" car. There are some things about the IS I liked better, but overall, I am very happy with the TSX.

lilballa

I would pick the lexus IS300 over then tsx anyday, BUT...that is only if it were the 2006 onee...otherwise im with the tsx

myblacktsx

I have a 6sp 05 TSX and my wife has an 01 IS300 Auto. Both are completely stock - absolutely no mods whatsoever.

I drive the IS quite a bit on the weekends, so here is my

My observations:

The inline 6 on the IS has significantly more torque than the TSX and feels more powerful as the powerband seems spread over the range of rpm unlike the TSX which seems to have no low end torque. However, the mileage is terrible. Average of 19-21 mpg (city/highway-70/30) vs. 25 on the TSX.

Steering on the IS300 is a bit tigher and is not affected by any torque steer (rear wheel drive). The steering wheel of the IS is a bit fatter than the TSX also. I think that that TSX gives a little more road feel than the IS though.

The IS seems to be a lot more nimble than the TSX. Probably the IS being a little lower and having a tighter suspension helps, along with being a smaller car.

The ride quality of the TSX seems to be a lot better and overall noise inside the cabin is a lot less. The IS300 has a fairly harsh and noisy ride compared to the TSX.

Fit and finish of the IS in my opinion is better than the TSX. I had/have many rattles in my TSX with only 11K miles on it; the IS which has nearly 60K has no rattles.

Overall quality: I must go with the IS300 on this one again. The only repair that the IS300 has needed in 5.5 years is one sensor vs. my TSX that has been at the dealer many times already for creaking, rattling, clutch clicking (master cylinder etc. was replaced) before it was 6 months old.

Tire life: The tire life of the IS300 is fairly low because they are even lower profile/sportier than the TSX tires. Had a bent rim on the IS from a pot hole. Good thing that it came with a matching alloy spare!!

Audio: Personally, I don't like the audio system in the TSX. I prefer the IS300 sound system.

Moonroof: no auto open/close for the TSX. One touch open/close for the IS300.

Headlights: IS300 has AUTO on/off auto-leveling xenon headlamps unlike the TSX which does not have auto-leveling or auto on/off.

Armrests: 01 IS300 has NO armrest for front!!!

Timing Belt: IS300 needs timing belt replacement at 90K miles. TSX - no timing belt - uses chain which typically does not need replacement.

Overall fun: I would take the 6sp TSX over the IS300 auto any day!!
Looks: I would again take the TSX over the 2001-2005 IS300.

curls

I have one good friend and one sorta-good friend who both had IS's. One 2002, one 2003. BOTH have gone through TWO trannies. It's quite well known that the IS tranny is basically made of glass. Scares me, because in both instances for both guys, they had to fight tooth and nail just to get it replaced under goodwill, as Lexus and Toyota have had a plethora of manual transmission problems in the IS and Corolla. It's no wonder they lowered the warranty by 30,000km and 1 year for 2005/2006.

psteng19

And the point is that a 6 cylinder is far smoother and puts out much more torque (at lower RPM's) than a 4 banger, even though peak hp numbers are the same.

Just look at the total area under the torque curve.

6SpeedTA95

Thank you for the reply and the others that posted their experiences with both cars its greatly appreciated

I find it very surprising that problems with the TSX were mentioned. I would suspect a few rattles but as far as problems go I would suspect the TSX would be virtually problem free in *most* cases.

megabytehl

No joke, I can't stand how little response there is coming across. I'm used to older cars where you get alot of feedback, in the Lexus line I just haven't been able to get used to the lack of it. They push for alittle too much luxury not enough sporty in that department, where maybe they should be focusing on making the interior alittle more refined.