7or8

I came accross this article while reading Detroit New's automobile section...

http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders...ders-20391.htm

In reading the article it’s clear that the writer believes that since the Big 3 have made big strides in improving the mechanical quality of their cars that, for the most part, the public’s perception of them is only now marred by the Big 3’s history of unreliability.

I tend to disagree. I believe that lack of nicely designed & qood quality interiors is what mostly contributes to the negative image of American cars nowadays. The writer makes a comparison of the new Chevy Malibu and how it’s feature set should make it on par with Camry and Accord. Yes, the car has many of the same features and some cool new ones, but I can’t get over the ugly (IMO) interior design to appreciate those features….


Steering wheel that only belongs in an autobot..



One suggestion.. can we make the shift knob a little taller? I don’t think it’s touching the roof yet.



Cheap, plasticy and “after-thought” like interiors are what I think are the bane of American cars. Pontiac being one of the worst culprits of all time. Even the new Cadillac which has a very stylish exterior IMO, has that cheap, giant, ugly block of grey plastic which dominates the interior.

Mercedes mechanical quality is just average, and has been for a long time. But the quality of their interior materials is great. Same goes for BMW and, of course, Audi. I guarantee you that if they made the Cadillac’s interior as good as the Audi’s you’d see them sitting in a lot more upper class driveways than they do now, even if they threw in a good dose of electrical problems just for grins. If they made the Malibu’s interior design and quality up to par with the Accords…you’d see Toyota and Honda buyer’s at least taking a look at it. But when you’re coming from a German or Japanese interior the last thing you want to do is get in an American car. If given the choice between (a) a somewhat boring exterior but great interior or (b) a great exterior but cheap interior, I’ll take the nice interior any day.

Why is it that the Ford Mondeo has a nice interior which European reviewers say is made from good feeling, quality materials, but we don’t get it here? Ohh…that’s right, the Mondeo was made for the European market, which won’t tolerate cheap interiors…but the American market needs to just take what we give em.

Argghhh!

Ok I’ll get off the soap box..

..thoughts?

Saintor_RENAMED

Funny; it is the same wheel steering in the new C6 Corvette. Cheap.

jlukja

Also, and its probably silly of me to think so, but I just don't like having the ingition on the dashboard instead of on the steering column. And, would it KILL them to use a three spoke wheel? The two downward facing spokes and the bottom 2/3 fo the center console still give that rectengular feel.

dom

While I agree that American car Int suck, especially in the Malibu. have you seen the Ext of the Malibu? I thought the Accord was ugly. The new Accord looks like the 360 next to that hideoues Malibu. And what exactly is the purpose of that 8 inch shiftter? The small out if the way shifters in the TSX and TL work/look just fine.

But the Americans are catching up. Take a look at the int in the GTO, its awesome.

dom

Where did you see the interior on the C6???

7or8

Exactly. With all the good examples of steering wheel design out there, as an interior designer you have to be actually trying to create an ugly steering wheel to succeed in that cause. I mean, how hard is it!

Yeah, I really like the GTO's interior. But too bad you have to spend 100k on an American car to get a decent interior. Even with a 50k Corvette you get a bad int.



..from Autoweek

captainjack

7or8:
I think Domn means the Pontiac GTO ($33K) not the Ford GT.

7or8

oops...how embarassing

..going surfing to find pics of GTO..

Junkster

7or8, you've hit the one thing that still keeps me from buying american.

I have to admit that the component, performance and reliability of the big three has made great strides compared to it's overseas counterparts. There are even cars that are coming down the pipelines that I would love to drive (vette, next mustang). But the interior design of most of the cars are still lagging.

The exterior of the Malibu, I don't mind so much. I'll go even further to say that it looks different and unique, unlike the last malibu which was forgetable at best. I had high hopes for the Malibu Maxx, since it was such a different type of family sedan. The reports say that the material is of pretty good quality, but the design is what puts me off. The caddie CTX has to be the ugliest dash of any luxury catagory vehicle, I mean, that center stack looks like a big block they found in their partsbin and decided they coudn't find anything else that would fit.

I think the Big three still haven't figured out that you're parts bin has to be pretty good for it to be used throughout all the lines. For a vette to have a similar steering wheel to the Malibu would be okay if the wheel was designed for the vette and moved DOWN to the malibu... but it doesn't seem like it's the case. Maybe one day they will figure it out... before they go kaput.

Junkster, who thinks NAIAS will show some good Ford products.

darth62

Well, I just got back from a week in NY (where I got to meet my brand new nephew!). Anyway, while there, we rented a Pontiac Grand Am. I was really shocked by the crappy interior (even though the car had one ergonomic feature that our TSX lacks - lighted steering wheel controls!). The seats were pretty comfy, but you were surrounded by cheap hard plastic everywhere. Even worse, the fit of the various trim pieces was quite poor. I actually knocked a piece of the interior trim off when I got out of the car. The ceiling liner was jagged enough to give you something like a paper cut, and the gaps in the dashboard and door panels were easily visable.

And, you guys complain about rattles! In this car, the rear seat actually rattled (probably has a trunk pass through that is loose)!

Anyway, after years of driving Honda and BMW products, I'd forgotten how crappy the fit and finish is on some American cars.

phile

Now that's a nice interior.

Not saying that GM's Chevy divisions hould have interiors like this, but Cadillac definitely should.

7or8

Absolutely. Why do we understand that, but someone making millions of dollars a year not get it? I wonder what type of cars sit in the driveways of some of these Big 3 execs...I mean, I feel bad for them if with all the millions they make they are relegated to driving their own creations.


To give them some credit, I have to say the interior of the new ford F-150 is very nice for a truck....it's nicer and more expensive looking than the Cadillac's!

bob shiftright

Tachometer dead center with the speedo offset, ignition switch to the LEFT of the steering column, lever to move 6 forward gears and 1 reverse. This is the way God meant an automobile interior to be.

Junkster

Yea, all the instruments are there for serious driving... but, the porsche interior is the bottom on the list of German interiors. They just don't look very inspiring behind the wheel. For what it lacks in styling, though, it makes up with functionality and performance oriented design.

Junkster, who doesn't like the look of the Porsche center console stack.

7or8

I'm not a fan of BMW styling (interior or exterior) as of late but you have to admit one thing at least....if you stripped the car of emblems that indentify it as a BMW and you just sat someone inside and let them look at it they would no doubt identify the interior as being something out of a luxury car...I doubt we could say the same for Cadillac..

love this steering wheel by the way...

captainjack

It is an improvement but it's not good enough yet.

Look at the bottom oval in the center stack--with the the lighter and something else. Why do TWO little items need SO MUCH space? It's clumsy and clunky. It's Detroit.

Why does the dash of a $14k Corolla look far more sophisticated than this truck that tops out at over $30k?!?

bob shiftright

Let me disagree..

Like a car seat, if a dashboard is doing it's job, and doing it well, you shouldn't even notice that it's there. If you notice it, it's distracting you from the job at hand. Driving.

I can't see how having after row row of identical buttons as in the Benz isn't distracting and helps you to drive the car.

(Old British car joke: Passerby to Jaguar owner: "All the switches on your dashboard look exactly the same. How do you ever tell them apart?" Jaguar owner: "I can't. But it doesn't matter, no matter which switch I flick, nothing happens.")

Lung Fu Mo Shi

That interior is awful from an ergonomics point of view. Look at the driver foot well...it's skewed from the seat. THat means your legs are always leaning left.

phile

That BMW interior looks awful, IMO. The CLS concept's interior looks incredible...I don't doubt we'd see something similar in production form. This BMW's (6 series?) interior looks somber and cold. I think the steering wheel is too fat.

7or8

I agree. I'm not a fan of BMW's ergonomic layout or styling either, but my point was, that when you sit in one the materials don't look or feel cheap. You can see and feel the quality..unlike with a Cadi. I felt very let down when sitting in the CTX at the car show. The Beemers interior is ugly IMO..but at least it's quality ugly

I still love that BMW's steering wheel though..

Junkster

Bob, I think we are actually agreeing...

I do appreciate the fact that a Porsche interior does not distract the driver from accomplishing his ultimate goal in a Porsche: Total driving immersion and enjoyment.

The thing that bothers me is the fact that if (big if here) I were paying 80k+ for a German car, I would like some luxury feel within the car, much like a BMW or MB. Not the whole button thing and stuff, but just some nice wood accents or a flowing dash that makes it feel like a futuristic cockpit.

Porsche, nonetheless, is a straight-up street legal racing car in one of its most balanced forms (supercar performance AND everyday drivability), and the interior does state it's business intentions fully.

Junkster, who thinks the older Ferrari's also had too many buttons.

bob shiftright

It's a sports car.

There is one of the most extensive, if not THE most extensive option list of any car today. They DO offer a wood interior package for $6220, leather-interior-to-sample for $5030, leather headliner $1410, leather seat adjustment knobs (!) $820, leather interior package (including cupholders!) $2980 and leather sun visors for $560. So you can outfit it like the lounge of the Yale Club if you choose to do so.

But I'd just order the HIDs, stability control, seat heaters and rear wiper and leave it there. Everything else is just a distraction.

7or8

They're crackin some smoke!!

phile

That wood better come from some tree that's on the brink of extinction to cost so much!

zircon

Funny thing about the complaints of not getting yuppies out of their Japanese and German cars: it took 3 decades to sully the North American car image with the utter crap foisted on consumers, yet one or two good designs and they think everyone ought to return overnight. Enough absolute horror stories still abound re: NA cars that it will take 1-2 decades to get NA consumers back, if ever.

When my wife was in medical school and I was in grad school, we had a Dodge Omni. It literally sucked all of the money we had - not much mind you, but all of it. It went to the junkyard with 120,000km on it = somewhere between 70-75000 miles. Pitiful. We then moved on to a new Chevette - it lost its reverse gear and had to have lightbulb changes every 3 months, which took 2 hours to do (rear taillights). Then Geo metro (Suzuki) - basic transportation but reliable. Then Isuzu Sytlus. Same as Geo. Then Eagle Summit wagon (Mitsu). Great, basic transportation. Then Honda Accord, 2 Honda CRVs, then Acura TSX. All great vehicles in terms of reliability. All of our Japanese cars have been reliable and cheap to run. The depreciation rate of a Japanese or German car is one half that of a NA one - greatly reducing the real cost to own.

We aren't going back despite the $3000 credit I had on a GM credit card (dumped the card when it bacame clear Aztek was the zenith of GM engineering and styling), and GM family discount. Safety, reliability, styling, availability of manuals, sporty rides, depreciation etc. all add up to a huge advantaqe for Honda and Toyota.

7or8

ROFL!

Crazytree

Jap auto interiors are best... they have that whole asian robotechnology vibe to them.

Brad

I agree with the points about the importance of interiors. For years, auto reviewers have lamented the "cheap" plastic GM parts bins for interior parts that find their way into GM products across the board. No manufacturer has a right to proclaim that their motor vehicle is at least focused on the middle market if it has cheap feel interiors.

However, I'm also very interested in what's underneath. How does the car hold up mechanically, electronically, structurally, and resale-wise after 100,000 miles, 150,000 miles, and 200,000 miles.

Using my previous Accords as a benchmark, a reputable car should not require any major repairs (using routine service maintenance)--that means no engine rebuilds, no valve jobs, no clutch work, no transmission work, etc.--for at least up to 200,000 miles. I am not convinced that GM, Ford, or Chryzler products are there. There's no question why Detriot (and the European makes) have lost me as a potential customer. The overall quality and reliability are not there. Certainly their phony high prices are out there, but their marketing perceptions are not in touch with reality.

kiteboy

To tie this back to the TSX - almost all reviews mention the great interior that sets it apart from its competition. It lends weight to the positioning of the TSX as entry-lux sports sedan instead of an imported Accord.

This is a perfect example of the difference the interior design and quality can make.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto!

Crazytree

I got out of my car today in the dark to drop off a letter with the engine running and the lights on... and I have to say... the radio area looks NICE from the outside... especially with the ambient light.

7or8

That's definitely true of the new JDM Odyssey. This has got to be the coolest minivan interior to date..

kiteboy

Damn - that JDM Odyssey is hot! I wonder if the buttons can change from red to blue backlighting? You'll need to have a dry ice dispenser in the footwell for added effect.

Now I want the 3rd silver trim bit for the bottom spoke for my TSX steering wheel.

7or8

Yeah, I'd like to take that steering wheel (Honda symbol and all) an pop it into my TSX...if I had one.

MSB128

I really want a minivan all of a sudden.

phile

The interior with the dark brown wood is my favorite.