BulldogHockey

I agree the average car buyer doesn't drive that well. I would argue though the TSX is not your average driver's car, like say an Accord, Camry, or Impala. I see the average North American car buyer looking for plenty of room, HP, and a forgiving ride.

The TSX really has none of those features; it's more of a drivers car that's good in the turns. Why not make it even more of a drivers car by making it more neutral. I could see that the 22 mm bar like Comptech is unlikely, but maybe a nice compromise in the middle?

Vtecpnoy

you guys can make this happen do a custom turbo, you could make more than 240hp. Now imagine a TSX with 300+Whp!!

dom

My point has nothing to do with what the TSX and TL compete with. Point is other makers have no problem putting a motor that matches the output of the so-called higher end model. Acura and its loyalists will have you believe that doing so steps on the toes of the higher end model and maybe rightfully so. But noone else has these concerns and sales don't seem to be negitively affected.

It likely helps 325 and A4 2.0 sales and in Canada's case the underpowered and overpriced 323.

peter_bigblock

If it's making 200 lb-ft at 2000 rpm, that's 76 hp. Just an observation, but I agree that that's a lot of torque to put through the TSX's front wheels and it's why I likely won't go for the supercharger. Everyone's opinion is different, that's what makes a market, but to me it would upset the balance of the car. SH-AWD would be different, and I think the market for a TSX-S with AWD and 260 lb-ft turbo wouldn't necessarily tread on a lot of the TL's buyers as much as it would attract would-be STI or Evo or 'Speed6 buyers.

I've got to think Acura thinks so, too. And it further differentiates the Acura lineup from the Honda lineup where I think they're trying to get more space.

junktionfet

Unfortunately I've had a number of pretty surprising and disappointing issues with my '06 thus far. I haven't mentioned all of the issues here because when I tried the first time, I got an unexpected and unpleasant response. My problems so far have mostly been quality control issues, with perhaps one of them being just an engineering problem.

I think you're right--it was just the unlock-relock timeout thingie I saw.

MrChad

I read these wish lists and wonder, does anyone even like this car and why the hell did you buy one in the first place?

AWD, RWD, turbo, more HP, more this, more that. Too much luxury, not enough luxury...

Does anyone remember what this car actually is?

You take the European A-spec Accord suspension, you take the JDM-Euro Luxury package, you put them all in the same Honda Accord chassis and you import the bugger to the states with a fancy A on the hood.

This wonderful bit of either excellent luck, or expert planning on the part of Honda engineering and design allows for the unique creations of hugely value intense entry level luxury sedan. Buy selling us what was in the first place a very economical mid-size sedan. It's basically a glorified parts bin car, not that the bins sucked.

What will the next US spec TSX be, why most likely another imported JDM-Euro Accord with all the options boxes checked.

I would say the fore shadowing can come from other European mid-size cars, the VW Passat would be a good gauge I think. Did it gain RWD or an EVO 9 killing engine? What's it got for options check boxes, do you think Honda's might look an awefully lot alike?

junktionfet

That is true... despite the nameplate, it is just a family/executive saloon in Europe, equipped with Honda's largest 4 cylinder mill and some other corporate goodies bolted on to justify the price.

The TSX's success here should only prove to illustrate how horrible the North American car market really is--that people in our age bracket get excited over what is probably a pretty typical car elsewhere in the world.

bradykp

you cant say you have issues and not mention them, that's the whole point of the forum. what quality issues have you had? no one else has seemed to have major problems.

MrChad

Who has a better car market? There are very few if any cars not sold here in the states. Those car brands not selling cars here are usually in financial trouble.

The days of off shore automakers not selling their halo cars here as well have pretty much come to an end.

csharp57

There is only one thing the TSX needs. AWD. This one fact is the reason I can't get an EVO outta my head.

MattJP

I think an optional model such as a Type S for the TSX will be offered since the RSX is going away. Maybe even a coupe, as rumored.
With the RDX already getting good reviews, it seems natural that AWD and turbo will eventually be optionable items (hopefully sooner than later) in other models.
Honda/Acura could be on the verge of turning the tables on other brands with a turbo/AWD combo (I know my pals in the Subaru camp can't say enough about SH-AWD). Personally, I'd love to see that. I love my TSX but I really do miss AWD...

Matt -

sauceman

Buy yourself an RTR TSX Racecar.

junktionfet

Are the stories of transmission failure, broken suspension parts, and oil consumption not considered "major" in the TSX world? Yeah there's probably some way to belittle and/or pawn that off on something else. It would never ever be related in any way to imperfect manufacturing, right?

Thankfully I haven't had that happen. The most serious failure to date has to be either the fuel pump or the brake assist failure. The 4 or 5 other annoying features didn't disable major functionality of the car, but are still inexcusable. One day I really felt like my car was falling apart because a lot of things happened at once

I used to be a dealer tech, so I know cars like this sometimes get out the door. The best you can do is get all of the bugs corrected and move on.

junktionfet

Oh most definitely not--in fact the world market situation was probably better years ago. Do you keep up with the world automobile market? Ever read Top Gear or CAR? Any French or Japanese automotive journals?

North America has the largest automobile market in terms of sales, however the rest of the world enjoys a better variety of not just brands, but trim levels and engines. And don't blame it on emissions or safety standards, Europe already has much tougher smog and fuel standards than we do, and their safety tests are more comprehensive.

North American buyers want trucks or SUVs. If not, they will settle for a large car but with lots of useless gadgets and technological garbage they can brag about.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Exactly right...the average American wants excess, not practicality, usability, or even just solid transporation. They're only interested in more power, more gadgets, and more bragging rights.

bradykp

the oil consumption i believe is not considered an issue. a lot of cars consume oil now and it is not considered a defect or quality issue. my 2006 TSX is now over 10,000 miles and consumes virtually no oil.

are there really that many posts about transmission failiure and broken suspension parts for 2004-2006 TSXs? I've been meandering around this board for a while, and i really haven't seen many issues. every brand will have some defects, i just don't see how you can say honda or acura has quality issues.

junktionfet

No they don't. That isn't true at all. And it is clearly a QC issue because oil consumption rates are often variable across the same model of car.

Congrats, neither does mine.

Who cares about the quantity? You said "no one else has seemed to have major problems", thus I responded to that point. The comments on this board illustrate that people have had major problems. There's no way to belittle that or water it down.

Yes every brand has defects, regardless of who makes it or where it comes from.

I'm curious though, where did I say Honda has "quality issues"? Could you quote it for me because I'm pretty sure I never made such a blanket statement. In fact, I'm pretty sure I requested enhanced quality control. The word "enhanced" is an adjective that implies the following noun already exists, but it would be nice to have more of it. For example, if quality control were "enhanced", my chances of getting a troublesome new car (like I have gotten) would be greatly reduced.

junktionfet

Now do you see why I preferred not to discuss the problems I've had with the car? Some people act like I've just walked into a church and exclaimed "There is no god!"

MrChad

What are some of these great British and European cars we don't have? I read these magazines all the time. I doubt the lack of a Renault Megan(sp?) or MGF coupe is worth loosing sleep over.

Nevermind MG went out of business, so did TVR. Alfa Romeo has a few good models but they'll be available in the states soon enough.

For the most part the only engines we fail to get in the states are the diesel models, are you dieing to own a Diesel TSX or lower hp 2.0l petrol model?

If it's a car charming the press the world over it's general sold here as well, unless you are craving that gotta have it super mini from Peugot.

junktionfet

Actually I wouldn't mind a TSX diesel. That is a very nice engine. Have you ever driven or taken a ride in one? It's certainly a hell of a lot more driveable than the 2.4 liter gasser we have (around town anyway), and it's exceptionally fuel efficient.

I think a Peugeot 1007 or equivalent would be a preferred car for some people that live in urban areas but want something small and very practical.

There are tons of utility vans and wagons produced by companies like Ford, Isuzu, Peugeot, etc. Looks at sales of the Dodge (Mercedes) Sprinter and tell me such a vehicle would not be immensely successful here. Right now our only choices are huge pickup trucks with bed walls so tall it's useless, or a bunk-ass RWD stubnose van that guzzles fuel.

What about these Japanese boutique cars/versions that people (like Honda fans) are always gooing over? Like the RSX Type-R (or whatever the hell it is), etc. What about wagon versions of Honda sedans? Some people would like one and are disappointed to see them leave the US market.

Not everyone has the same limited preference in automobiles that you do. I'm not the only one in the country who prefers to walk into a restaurant and not receive a gigantic wasteful portion. I'd prefer to request something that I can actually eat in one sitting. The point is that the rest of the world has a lot more selection. All we have here is the biggest or most expensive, and it forces people into this lifestyle of excess. That's fine for people like you, but others would like the choice.

The US car market sucks when it comes to real choices.

junktionfet

EDIT: It was brought to my attention that "same limited preference in automobiles" sounds belittling and I did not intend that. Think "same specific preference" or something like that. I can't think of a word that fits right now.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, you happen to be in the minority in terms of vehicle choices in this country. The average buyer seems more interested in status, machismo, and image than they are in function, practicality, and drivability. Hell, even family sedan buyers have added the "image" of their cars to the equation when considering cars so that instead of picking the best car for the job, they pick the one that presents the best image of them.

Very few of us on the site really fall into the average American buyer because we are automotive enthusiasts, for the most part, and tend to think more like the European buyer. So until we can convince the rest of the country that buying that H2 because you think it's macho is a stupid move, we're pretty much going to be stuck with the choices we have.

bradykp

yep, completely right on the button here. we're the exception, most people love things like the suburban, yukon, H2, etc etc. even cars are big. you go to europe and the american car companies have chopped off versions of the same cars. and there are tons of cars over there that are more about function than image, so there are much more choices. even the american car companies offer more cars over seas.

DLTSX6MT

Exactamundo!


Typical American driver = automatic Camry w/ fake wood steering wheel, or automatic 4WD SUV that has never seen dirt.

When car manufacturers perfect auto pilot, it'll sell like hotcakes here.

mltk53

yea well, a bit more power would be nice, especially more torque, but i think u guys r going too far. the 250+ hp/torque. also the AWD. the TSX is juss a nice luxury sedan that was build for cruising. 200 hp is definately enough for me, i mean..i dont drice like a maniac or race evos or w.e. for its little lack in power, the TSX makes up for it with its interior featues and advanced technologies.

biker

jpt

The supposed tastelessness of American drivers is not the only (or even the most important) reason we don't have as much variety in cars here as Europe does. US car import, emissions, and safety regulations are as brutal as they are stupid. The Carrera GT, for instance, will no longer be offered in the US market. Why? Because US regulations demanded that Porsche AG redesign the airbags on this $450k supercar and crash-test two more of them. Porsche decided there was enough demand in Europe for their car that it wasn't worth dealing with the BS.

Similarly, VW is discontinuing sales of their diesel models in the US in 2007 because they don't think it will be worth the monstrous cost of meeting US NOx emissions guidelines -- the strictest on the planet, these laws regulate output in parts per million, not pounds per mile, so VW's turbodiesels cannot meet the new regulation despite the fact that they are far cleaner than, say, the Toyota Tundra's vomit-belching V8 (which is sold without any penalty or tax for its environmentally destructive design).

Just getting a car certified as legal to sell in CARB states (an effective requirement for selling in the US) takes millions of dollars' worth of certification testing and bureaucracy overhead -- on top of the millions of dollars a company already needs to spend to get a car certified as legal by federal safety and emissions standards.

In such an environment the logical strategy for automakers (at least, foreign-owned automakers; the rules are quite different for the Big Three -- way to go, protectionism) is to capture as large a market segment as possible with as small a variety of cars as possible.

MrChad

Is the airbag really the only reason? The Saleen S7 is sold without an airbag completely.

We are switching to a new diesel fuel standard in 2007 as of that time all European made diesels should be able to meet the EPA requirements. None the less, diesels are popular in Europe for tax reasons, not MPG or efficiency. Will the US sell $2 gal diesel next to $3 gas anytime soon? If so I bet the diesel will catch on real fast.

I love the American bashing--nothing like diss'n your own nation, you all assume the Europeans spend a lot of time thinking about cars. I have European co-workers from Germany, trust me they don't.

Do you know why European cars are smaller, the roads are small and cramped. (and insurance premiums are structured to favor smaller cars) If they had roads as large and expansive as ours they too would have large boats. My experience tells me they love playing in large American cars on large American roads. It gets even better with small European cars on large American roads.

And out of all my European friends I'm the only one that owns a manual, dispite the stereo types my European friends all own slush-matics, go figure?

junktionfet

Honda has declared they will try to offer Diesel engine models to US customers perhaps as early as 2009. They are smart--waiting until our market is saturated with the ultra-low-sulfur Diesel fuel.

And MrChad is correct in that Americans tend to develop more affection for their cars than people in Europe. Of course, it is wrong to make a blanket statement, and there are most definitely car enthusiasts all over Europe... it's just that it seems to be much more common here. Blame it on our excessively automobile-centric suburban growth habits

TSX420J

Would be nice but it would be even nicer if it were RWD and had about
250-270hp instead. Then I would get it over my current one.

Ronin317

I want to play devil's advocate on this - If American car buyers are so concerned with machismo, image, and status, why is the Camry the #1 selling auto? It has none of those qualities. Ditto for the Hyundai Sonata, Chevy Cav/Cobalt, and every other uninspired, vanilla sedan out there. Now, what you said about the H2 can be applied to certain sectors of car buyers, but the recent trend I see, among inner city youths, is used 1997-2002 SUVs, whose values have dropped faster than GW Bush's approval ratings. That is where the machismo, status, and image effects are most popular, IMO. I'm trying to remember who it was...I think it was funkmaster flex, that said something like "I can get the nicest import car, a bentley or whatever, and roll to the hood and no one cares, but you roll in an escalade with dubs, and the hood knows that car, it gets the attention."

I'm more of the opinion that, if we're talking about the meat of the market - the new car buyer - is more or less apathetic about purchasing an automobile, and tends to just go by what Consumer Reports says, picks a color, picks a trim level, haggles a little bit on the price to get like, free mats thrown in or something, and then signs and drives. They're purchasing for value first, safety second, and in the current market, fuel efficiency. That's the middle segment. Of course, there's still the macho buyer, but there are less of them than Camry drivers...and then there is the 'enthusiast' segment, the smallest of the three.

a side note - I saw every stereotypical driver this past weekend, cause it was beautiful and not too hot out here in Pittsburgh. Here are the highlights - I saw the ghetto ride, a '92 Caprice Classic, who put a half-size spare on the front wheel, and then proceeded to try and take a turn over a curb lip at full speed, at which time the spare popped and they screeched to a spark-filled stop. Now that was funny. (what is it with ghetto cars and driving on half-size spares like they are meant for more than 50 total miles. How the hell do you drive a spare until it's bald?) Then I saw a guy in a nascar edition yellow monte carlo that had a mullet of the gods...and finally, the overly prissy chick driving her Eclipse GT while putting makeup on and swerving all over the road. Ironically, she almost hit a hick in a rusted old back-firing ford pickup...

BulldogHockey

True, true. I have driven over in Belgium, mostly in Brussels and Antwerp, and those roads are very cramped. There is no rhyme or reason for road layouts due to their very old design. A Jeep Grand Cherokee was about the largest vehicle you would see (at least for non-commercial vehicles). I probably could not have negotiated my 4 door pickup through many of those roads; there simply was not room.

And someone mentioned that diesels are popular for tax reasons. I believe that is true. Different tax rates for different displacements. You'd have to be quite rich to drive an 8 cylinder there. Maybe this is also the reason for so many turbo's (Like Audi, VW)?