sauceman

That was an exact copy/paste.

What's more, the original thread is in this same forum, and it's 9 months old.

Of all the reposts I've seen, this has got to be the lamest one. And I'd add dishonest too. You could have just continued the discussion in that other thread.

sauceman

Put into perspective, piston speed is mostly trivial. But it is a good indicator of how well an engine is put together.

If you add the piston speed to a difficult R/S ratio and other factors such as the engine's performance in fuel consumption, as well as emissions and even smoothness and ease of operation, you can soon see in the equation that the TSX engine is a jewel of an engine.

TSXey

"TSX engine is a jewel of an engine"

I have to agree with that. Absolutely nothing to do with piston speed, but it is a very very nice engine.

JeffTSX

Thank you. Someone knows their shit!!

TSXey

I'll second the "thank you" I was going to totally ignore the post as another example of someone not knowing what they're talking about, plus I don't like to mention it too often since this isn't a Toyota or Supra forum, but as some of you recall, I own a '95 MkIV TT and that engine is one of the greatest, most durable, most reliable, highest potential, best designed engines ever conceived by humans ...at least so far; I'm working on something better

matelot

<-- gilboman

hans007

maybe its the power difference, but maybe someone else has other anecdotes.

the tsx engine seems a lot smoother accelerating. feels like a giant electric golf cart motor or something.

when i had a g35 , the engine accelerating it felt a lot more like power came in lumps. i think the electricness of the tsx seems more refined thohgh probably less thrilling. its a great engine in its own right.

waterrockets

Looking at this thread for the first time, we're just looking at average piston speed? The actual speed varies sinusoidally, where the max is when the piston is halfway through it's stroke (instantaneously at a crankshaft tangent).

For example, the S2000 would actually be at 7795 ft/min at it's mas speed vs. the 4965 ft/min average speed.

I guess it's all a wash anyway, because the speeds are all relatively the same between cars (max varies directly with average), so the list order wouldn't change.

Still, 7795 sounds so much faster than 4965

rb1

The problem with the I6 is packaging. It won't fit where an I4 will (witness the very long hood on the BMW 3-Series), and certainly not transversely.

I rather like VWAG's solution with the VR6 engines (originally with a 15 degree V but now a mere 10.6 degree V).

You get most of the benefit of having an I6 (even a single cylinder head) while having a package that will fit were an I4 will.

Bananaairsoft

Give them a little more time guys! with the help of direct injection tech...very high rev and strong torq engines are well on their way!

sauceman

Indeed it does. Obviously though, I wasn't getting as scientific with this analysis, just posting out the average speed.

Still, it's pretty mind boggling when you think of it that the engine accelerates from 0ft/min to 7795 ft/min 19,000 times in an S2000 engine in a single minute.

mg7726

honda is on the verge of having a production HCCI engine. now THAT would rock!

West6MT

Good find on the info sauceman,.......started up an interesting thread.

waterrockets

Yeah, it's amazing. That's 0 to 88.6 mph and back to 0 in 0.003 seconds.

Maxboost

Just out of curiosity does the V6 in the TL has any similarities to the NSX CB32?
As for I6 coming from Japan the only two engines that i've seen that are making big names for the japanese makers are the 2JZGTE and RB26DETT both of which are very old and low tech.
However, in the case of 2JZGTE it came with a very robust bottom end which is capable of handling 600 whp without any internal changes. In the case of RB26DETT is an even better engine only if it had come with a better oil pump/pan design. The oil pump/pan design is where it fails first.

sauceman

No. The J32 is different than the C32. The C32 is a very high-strung V6, not the J32.

Maxboost

So why did Honda stop using the C32 then?
I could totally see a A-Spec TL with C32 tuned to 320 hp with SH-AWD running at limited production.

GIBSON6594

I think the C32 is past it's time. There are rumors of a V10 NSX in the making

sauceman

If I understand right, the J-series has the capability of producing more torque than the C-series. Case in point, C-series were 2500-3200CC, while the J-series are 3000-3500CC.

They were also probably not worth the while adopting the latest variable timing technology, but that's mostly an uneducated guess.

ILoveMyHonda

Anybody remember the I5's that honda used to make that were in legend's?
How did those perform? I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about em?
If not, I guess that's why they met their demise

dom

Its been confirmed.

kenzo

I think you're remembering the Vigor / 2.5TL motor.

sauceman

Those were the G-series. 5 cylinders are basically a technological puzzle (maybe even paradox) especially in the harmonics/vibration management. And no, they weren't great performers, although they probably were not meant to be anyway.

Oh, and they sounded like crap too: http://media.putfile.com/TSX-vs-Vigor-25

project13TSX

1. Honda S2000:
Engine Code: F20C1
Bore/Stroke: 3.43" X 3.31"
Redline: 9000rpm
Piston Speed: 4965 Ft/min

2. Lamborghini Gallardo
Engine Code: N/A
Bore/Stroke: 3.25" X 3.65"
Redline: 8000rpm
Piston Speed: 4866.67 Ft/min

Good news guys, Hondata'ed TSX takes the title as the world's fastest piston speed from a production engine.

The S2000 is no longer #1 with it's longer stroke and slower rpm.
Hondata TSX is piston speed champion of the world 3.9 x 7600 / 6 = 4940 FT/min

People with a 04 TSX with hondata now have the fastest moving pistons from a production engine in the world!

joerockt

Just another reason to get my reflash STAT!

SoonToBeTSX'n

Interesting to see this talked about. Recently read this article, which would say you are incorrect... http://www.audiworld.com/features/tests/b7rs4.shtml The 06 Audi RS4 is taughted to do 25.7 m/s which is about 5011 ft/min (25.7*60*3.25), and that's stock. Course, what do you expect for a twin turbo v8 and 80k.

sauceman

The thread was written before the 2006 RS4 existed.

SoonToBeTSX'n

Yes I know that, but the post I quoted was written...TODAY!
Besides that, I find it hard to believe that no Audis or MB were in the top 30 when you originally posted that, skip some brands maybe?

sauceman

In general, Audis and especially MBs are low-revving, high torque engine. They are not high-strung screamers.

dom

Strange comment considering MB has never been known for high revving engines. At least not on this side of the pond. BMW, yes.

sauceman

He's confusing engine power with the means to attain it.

dom

Most likely.

Anyone know what the piston speed is on AMG's latest 6.2/6.3 L V8? That engine makes some very impressive naturally aspirated power.

project13TSX

impressive because it's 6.2 liters maybe? but yes.... even bmw was low rpm/high torque maker until recently... those germans are finally getting a lil bit smarter but not by much... at least smarter than american makers

dom

Impressive because its 500+ HP.

project13TSX

im still waiting for honda's F1 3 liter V10 500+ HP in the next nsx

project13TSX

making 500 from 6.1 liter is easy... even americans can do it, honda will do it half its size with only 3 liters

SoonToBeTSX'n

Quick search shows it's 4469 ft/m. Let's make sure we're all on the same page here. I'll i'm saying is that the likelihood that there were NO Audis or MB in the top 30 seems impossible to me. I'm not saying I think they are all around better. And it's impossible to compare 06 models with the list you made based on what I would assume were 04 models. But if you look at the numbers on the current Audis, virtually every one of their engines is good enough to be on the list and the 04 S4 has the exact same engine as the 05 and 06. Clearly, I'm not leaning German or I'd be posting elsewhere, just stating a fact.

dom

Name one American car that makes 500HP from 6.1L?

Vette 6.0L makes 400 and of course the Z06 needs 7.0L (which is very impressive)
The SRT-8 6.1L makes 425. Again very impressive. It seems you need either huge disp or more than 8 cylinders to make 500 NA HP.

dom

Not sure if your reffering to me but I agree with your comments. Just saying that MB in particular among the Germans aren't known for their high RPM engines or high piston speeds.

afici0nad0

good point...

also consider the reliability of the engine, and, you're looking at pretty good engineering...