gimmeaipod

I noticed today that when the alarm goes off, the HIDs flash...is this bad? I remember reading somewhere that HID lights need to warm up for a while and that flashing them or turning them on for short periods of time can be harmful to the system. how much harm does this cause?

thanks!

davidspalding

Don't know about excessive wear, but I've been reading that HID service life is based not on how LONG they're on but how many TIMES they're turned on.

I notice that when the HIDs blink (say if they're left on, and I lock, then unlock twice), they don't do the "two stage" blink as when I turn them on cold.

Does your alarm go off a lot?

whitson01

iTrader: (2)

ive read/heard that its bad for hid's to be flashed also.. i know that an hid system works when the ignitor produces enough volts to arc the hid buld.. then it just runs off 35 watts.. do you always leave your head lights turned on? that may be why they flash when your alarm goes off.

davidspalding

(00:21 AM) I'd try this from my 3rd floor apt. overlooking my car, but my neighbors would be up in arms.

Waitaminute ... I hate my effing neighbors. I'll be right back....

Icculus

The HIDs also flash when the high beams are flashed... I always thought that was pretty cool... However I'm not too worried about them burning out because I have yet to replace the headlight units from the moisture recall, not to mention I only have 9 months left on the lease; looking forward to the '09.

rex.

You shouldn't allow your HID bulb to flicker on and off. It starts to lessen the duration of the bulb, which you will notice when it starts to change color. The reason it flashes when your alarm goes off is to draw attention, so that if your car is being broken into, people notice it.

Comp-Sci

I definitely didn't know that flashing HIDs was bad for them. I quite often leave my headlights on when I get home from work and let them turn off automatically, but when I lock the car they flash twice. I guess I should change this habit.

Thanks for the tip!

acura_ak

i agree.....i also heard that turning the HIDs on and off quickly will wear them down quicker.

Simba91102

When and if you have the recall service performed, you'll find that they don't replace anything they just install clips to (supposedly) prevent moisture from entering the headlight.

LukeaTron

The main stress on a arc light, such automotive HIDs is the heat cycles. The bulbs work by jumping a spark across a gap between two electrodes. The electrodes are enclosed in environment consisting of a noble gas (xenon) and a metal alloy (mercury halide... I think). The gas is there only for the initial few seconds the light is on until the heat from the arc evaporates the metal (this is why the lights change colors when you first turn them on).

When the metal is hot and vaporous the arc is nice and stable going from one well defined point on the anode (positively charged electrode) to a well defined point on the cathode (negatively charged electrode). Little energy is wasted because the spark is taking more or less a straight line between the two points. When the bulb is cold and the arc is moving through the xenon it takes a more wandering path that takes more juice and creates more heat.

Things that make an arc lamp fail are electrode erosion and the loss of the controlled atmosphere inside the bulb. When the bulb first turns on, the arc is very hot and wanders around the cathode. This erodes the cathode the same way the center electrode gets worn down on a spark plug. Ideally the two electrodes should be pointy but eventually they round down and the bulb loses efficiency and burns hotter. This will rarely in itself cause a modern bulb to fail outright but will increase the degree of thermal cycling between powered on and powered off states.

So when the bulb gets hotter and cooler its various materials shrink and contract. Since it's made out of several different materials, they shrink and grow at different rates. This means that microscopic gaps at the union of the various materials (glass, metal, ceramic) are constantly trying to work themselves larger. Eventually the outside atmosphere will get mixed in with gases inside the bulb. The more air that gets in there, the more yellow, and eventually pink the color of the light will shift. Finally, the resistance of the atmosphere in the bulb will become greater than power supply can jump. At this point the bulb will stop working all together.

Phew. Ok, so what implications does this have for the thread at hand? Well, if it's just a quick off then back to on, the bulb doesn't have much time cool down. This means the thermal cycling will be shallower. This should be evident because the bulb doesn't do the pink then blueish white thing. The metals are still vaporous so when the power comes back the electrons very quickly reestablish their stable pathway from anode to cathode. Since the arc is cooler and not drifting around much the wear, on the electrodes is greatly reduced.

So, in conclusion, don't worry about the lights flashing with the alarm system.

davidspalding

In another thread, someone mentioned doing this at work (movie theater?), so that when he unlocked, the lights all came on as walked to his car, and bystanders ooh'ed and ahh'ed appropriately. I tried this, and didn't like that the HIDs blinked when locking.

SOLUTION: using one of the master lock switches, or the driver's door lock post, locks the car and arms the security system without blinking the HIDs. Only trick ... set the external lights out delay to a sufficient amount for you to "kick the tires and light the fires." The default of 15 sec turned them off before I could plant myself in the seat and turn the ignition key. No one ooh's and ahh's appreciatively around me when I unlock, but it IS kinda convenient when making multiple stops at night. I miss the automatic headlights on my Toyo Sienna.

(no joke) Thank you, Professer LukeaTron, your explanation allayed my worries about turning the HIDs off for a second while driving (to signal other drivers their lights are off, or to signal truck drivers that they're clear to merge). I've done those things for years, but worried that with HIDs, I would be putting excessive wear on the electrodes.

Comp-Sci

If I understand what you're saying here, I don't think that will work. If I use the master lock switch or the lock post to lock the car and then close the door, the driver's door unlocks again. I believe this is to avoid locking the keys in the car. As far as I know, the car can only be locked via the key fob. (on an '06 anyway)

EDIT: I also changed the default timeout for the headlights. I think mine are set at 45 sec.

LukeaTron

Ah, the hold Honda trick. Pull the interior handle on the drivers door while you lock the doors. This is the only way you can get the drivers door to lock while the door is open. It is precisely so it's a lot harder to lock your keys in the car.

Comp-Sci

That's pretty awesome. I didn't know that was possible. I'll sneak out at lunch and give it a try. I don't know if this is in the manual or not, but I think something like this should be in the Easter Eggs thread.

DLTSX6MT

Eh, really??

My 06 TSX and 05 Odyssey Touring do that only if the key is still in the ignition.

I lock up by pushing the plunger down or pressing the switch and then closing the door all the time.

LukeaTron

Hmm, my car ('04) will not let me push the plunger down on the drivers door with door open unless I pull the handle. If I use the switch, all the other doors lock but not the drivers - unless I pull the handle. I'm almost certain, though not positive, that this is regardless of whether or not the key is in the ignition.

Every single Honda I've ever driven has worked exactly the same way, all the way back to my parents 85ish Accord wagon.

davidspalding

What are you guys are talking about??. As of the 2006 model, the Master Door Locks don't work ... if the key is still in the ignition. See pages 129-130 of the owners guide (2007 edition, your pages may differ), "Door locks." I have started using the driver's door Master Door Lock Switch regularly while stepping out.

Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe you like locking your car with a key in the igntion. If so that's a ... really interesting idea.

davidspalding

(assumes "Well, I'll be gol'darned" look)(and blushes for earlier, perhaps inappropriate sarcasm) I vaguely, very vaguely, remember this in the 1982 Accord ... but maybe your Jedi mind tricks are working on me. Still, this is not the case with the 2006 model like DLTSX6MT and I have. Interesting. Drop everything you're doing and go check this out for us, will ya? (joke)

Comp-Sci

In all seriousness, I will be dropping everything in 10 minutes to go out for lunch. I'll let you know the results. I'm in desperate need of my xmas vacation... it could be that the stress is affecting my head. Perhaps I dreamt this up?

Comp-Sci

Okay, and the results are in: I've only half lost my mind.

You can lock the doors with the master lock switch or lock post. I was definitely thinking of when you leave the car running - the driver's door WILL NOT lock. Sorry for the mix-up.

LukeaTron

I'll try and remember to fiddle with the locks on my 04 tonight to see if it's any different. Of course it's pouring out right now and if these conditions persist into the evening, I'll probably not be very inclined to spend any more time than I have to being exposed to them.

FWIW, I'm fairly certain the old Accord worked like that and know for a fact that '90 Legend and '97 Civic worked that way.

DLTSX6MT

My dad had an '83 Accord, and yes, I did have to pull the inside handle to lock the door. Of course, it was much easier on that car than it would be for the TSX, since the lock was a little flip lever right next to the handle (you could pull the handle and flip the lever in one motion, with the same hand), as opposed to a plunger allllll the way at the back of the door.

davidspalding

FYI I tried this last night with my 2006, key in the ignition (OFF), door open (naturally), and not only would it not work, but it sounded like I was breaking something. I didn't persist.
Indeed, indeed, indeed. I remember now, doing this while warming up the engine (I did that before engaging the A/C) with valet key, then going inside to lock up the cabin (old rustic POS on the Russian River, northern California). I used to lock the '82 Accord LX hatchback when I went inside. Hrm ... I'm getting nostalgic for that cute li'l car. No wonder I love my TSX.

LukeaTron

Yeah, I messed with it last night on my '04. It only protests if the key is in the ignition. I can't remember if I tried pulling the handle to override this. I don't really know why you would want to though.

One other thing I need to try is to see if the passenger side switch will lock the drivers door when it's open.

Comp-Sci

This thread has gone way off topic.

2T0S0X4

Actually when I had the recall performed on the headlamps they did replace both headlamp assemblies and bulbs.