TSXmeister

Friday afternoon went to my scheduled appointment with Jody Wilkinson Acura @ Salt Lake City. As in my previous post I was undecided to which model to choose from since both the TL and TSX are good looking cars, so the test drive experience will be the final factor for me to decide which I would purchase. Got into the dealership with wife and son in tow, the weather was cold but otherwise clear skies. Sales rep met us at the door and asked me which one do I prefer to test drive first? Did the TSX first (since at first I was leaning to buy it), started and let it warm up for a little bit. The demo 2006 TSX, non-navi (AT) indicated 22 miles in the odometer. Did some city and freeway driving, my impression on the TSX - car felt a little bit tight (maybe because it still in the break in period). Definitely felt the road (sales rep did mention it) and a firm ride for my taste. Speeding up on the ramp I have to give it some gas and did felt a little bit of lag…...kind of felt the engine stumble a little bit (it wasn't a smooth power delivery IMHO). At the freeway I maintained a speed of 65 mph, car is surprisingly quiet, no engine noise intrusion. Did a quick lane change during traffic to exit back to main street this car handled it (the lane change) quite impressively I would say the TSX was nimble and maneuverable IMO.

Upon return to the dealership got some coffee. Sales rep warmed up the demo 2006 TL with the navi option also an AT shows 1600+ miles on the odometer. Followed the same road course as in the first test drive (city/freeway driving), my impression on the TL – the ride was pretty smooth definitely didn’t felt the road….acceleration was pretty impressive excellent power delivery IMO. Didn’t feel any of the dreaded torque steer during acceleration, maintained speed of 65 mph….cabin was pretty quiet except I did hear the roar of the engine when giving it some gas. Also did the same quick lane change maneuver in traffic a bit slower I guess due to its size but decent enough for me.

The test drive experience did help me (a little bit) and I’m leaning towards the TL (about 90 percent) although by the end of March which I planned to do my purchase I will ask again for a test drive of the TSX only (just to erase any doubt) hopefully the TSX demo will have more miles by the time of my test drive.

Additional note – I like the TSX instrumentation layout better than the TL IMHO, but I prefer the overall interior and the roominess of the TL. I’m impressed on the TSX doors with that solid thump upon closing it, TL not bad either. I didn’t notice any rattles in the cabin/dash area on the TL and TSX during the drive in the city /freeway. The navi option was impressive so I would get it. The TL’s side mirror (shape wise) IMO is ugly they should have put like the ones in the RL or the TSX otherwise both are good looking cars.

Well I guess that’s all I have to say on my test drive, your feedback are welcome…….wish me luck in my purchase next month!!

narci

awesome...hope you get the car that you like and suits you.

if it makes any difference at all, the TSX is made in Japan and the TL in the US.

03CoupeV6

Trust me, the final assembly point makes no difference. I had a Japan-built 05 TSX 5AT non-navi TSX in the garage for a solid month(Acura loaner, 400 miles) with the similarly-priced 05 Accord EX-V6 coupe. I examined build quality, paint quality, gaps inside and out on both cars. I mean, I really went over both of the cars with a fine-tooth comb. There was absolutely no difference in alignment, paint, or gaps on outside panels.

Inside, however, the TSX had a misaligned panel on the left side of the dash (the vent area). The Accord's interior was flawless.

The whole Japan vs. America argument that occurs so much in favor of the TSX over the TL is all simply hogwash, there is nothing to statistically prove it. Both cars are extremely well built.

narci

Could be true on inital ownership..but i'm talking throughout the years of owning. The TL forums seems to gripe about quite a few problems.

My personal opinion that's all. To some people, it's a comfort to know it was built in Japan.

Personally, I test drove a ML before I bought my C36 and the sunroof caved in and the knobs came off. My best friend's Z3, the shifter poped off and the roof leaks that the dealer could not fix proplerly.

*this is MY personal opinion*

frescagod

you're going off of two cars out of..........tens of thousands. statistically, japanese cars are better built overall than americano pieces of crap. i've owned an '04 RSX and now an '05 TSX, and i have way less problems than TL owners have had.

RARIPPLE

My 2005 TL is in the shop getting the many little nagging things like rattles and perfomance issues taken care of. I dropped it off on Friday and occurding to the service manager, it should be done Monday if nothing major is found (I get an annoying drone sound from the transmission and he's spent some time driving it to see if he can pinpoint the cause). Anyways, I was given a 05 TSX as a loaner. Here's my opinion on the two...

The overall build quality is about the same. The TSX exhibits the same types of interior rattles as my TL. On this car, the rear deck is very noisy and there's something going on around the nav unit in the dash. The body fit and finish are very similar. The TSX features the same misaligned trunk deck that my TL does. The paint shows the same minor imperfections as my TL. The doors close crisply with a pleasing "Thunk" sound. The TSX has a fold down rear seat which I miss in the TL.

Because the drive train is so different, all I can do is summarize my experience with the TSX as compared to the TL. The four cylinder is very responsive, not TL 3.2L responsive, but not bad at all. Probably the nicest 4 cylinder I've driven (my experience is with GM and Chrysler so I'm no expert). You can really flog the TSX and it responds well. The engine revs smoothly. I'm having fun with sport shift and the nimble handlinig of the TSX. The TSX is definitely handles better than my TL with stock suspension. An future A-spec upgrade may be required!

I don't care for the instument cluster on the TSX, but that's my opinion. It seems kinda Japanese generic to me. The function of the nav unit is pratically identical to the TL's. The heater controls do appear on the screen in the TSX however. The navi and climate control buttons are not nearly as intuitive as they are in the TL. I can 't seem to find anything without searching. I've been having a hard time getting the automatic function of the climate control to work at all. The fan always seems to be at the wrong speed and it's either too hot or too cold. I always end up running it in manual. My TL's climate control is much better behaved.

The TSX seems to get a lot of looks from younger drivers. I don't notice this as much when driving my TL. The TSX is a sharp looking car. This TSX is in a dark grey color with black leather interior.

Overall, I've found the TSX pleasant to drive. I personnally would still opt for the TL as I appreciate the styling, the 3.2L engine and the extra interior room. And to be honest, my mother has a 2006 Accord EX V-6 with Navi that I find to be a better car than the TSX from a quality and performance standpoint.

mg7726

this thing has been debated over and over and over and...

go with your gut feeling. personally, i love honda's 4-cyl and will continue to own one until the day honda stops making it!

if you like driving in the lower powerband, go with the V6; the '06's options are so close to the TL now.

micvog

Yesterday I traded my '05 TL with 12k miles for an '06 TSX Navi. Some points to consider:

TSX Benefits
* much more solid (e.g. closing the driver's door and the glove box)
* dash material seems much nicer as well due to the TL's "compatabilizer" problem which discolors the passenger side area of the dash
* In the first day of driving, I have been getting 32 MPG on my Auto TSX (don't expect that to last); my TL was averaging 23 MPG.
* Info display on the TSX (with average and instantaneous MPG, range, etc.) is much nicer than the TL.
* AUX in port which allows me to play my iPod without using Acura's horrid "MusicLink"

TL Benefits
* larger and more power
* Amazing resale value (dealer gave me $2200 less than I paid 12k miles earlier and I got the TSX ~$1k back of invoice)

To me, if you want a touring car, get the TL. If you want a sports car, get the TSX.

6SpeedTA95

I'm gonna chime in with my usual response and that is get a manual transmission in whichever car you choose. DO NOT miss out on the excellent honda/acura 6 speed manual

NJTSXMan

I'll probably get flamed for this... but I've driven TL loaners a few times. In the 04/05 TL, I could not feel a drastic difference in low end torque versus my 05 TSX. I remember saying to myself.. "this is it?"... but you can feel the difference when you floor the TL, but it wasn't enough for me to drool over it.

However, the 03 TL Type-s has monster-like low end torque that is very noticeable. I just tap the gas and it wants to fly. The torque steer was terrible though.

Keep in mind that my 05 TSX has the hondata reflash, comptech header, comptech icebox, and random tech hi flow cat. A stock 06 TSX with the hondata reflash would probably feel the same, if not, faster due to its breathing improvements (It's like driving a modded 05 without the hassle).

NJTSXMan

I was referring to my 05 TSX in that sentence and not the TL to avoid being murdered by the TLer's.

greendestiny

then why didn't you buy a Ford, GM, or Chevy? more horsepower for less money =)

fuckleberry

umm maybe because a Ford/GM/Chevy is not a Honda/Toyota/Nissan ?

BTW my vote is: US-built Honda = Jpn-built Honda, in quality and reliability

yeefuchew

As for my back to back test drives of the TSX vs. the TL, I found that I really felt the road in the TL. I would be curious to see what your impressions would be if you reversed the test order, which is how I tried the drives. Maybe that's what you should try just to see if your impressions are diff.--the TL first, then the TSX.

Ron Parr

IMO, the TSX is a great deal. At that price, it's hard to find something that combines the refinement and features of the TSX.

Once you start considering the TL, you need to ask yourself what else you could get for about the same money. You can get a 325i for around the same price and I think the driving experience would be much better in the 325i. I might feel the same way about other cars in the ~35-40K range, but all I tested in that price range were the 325i and TL.

The TL Torque steer seemed to bother me much more than most. If I were given a choice of the TL at the TSX price, I'd still go for the TSX just because of the torque steer.

FWIW, here's my review of the TSX, including comparisons with some other cars I drove:

http://bellman.cs.duke.edu/~parr/tsx.html

03CoupeV6

Okay. Let's see the statistics? You claimed I was going off of my cars, and you turn around and say that about your cars... doesn't make sense?

You can PM me the JD Power's, Consumer Reports, etc. statistics or articles where they say that Japanese-built cars are better built than their American counterparts. Note, I didn't say that American-built was better. I said that build quality is pretty much identical and that "Japanese origin" is NOT an attribute to the TSX anymore than "American origin" is an attribute to the TL.

If your preference is Japanese-built, fine. But that doesn't make it factual.

03CoupeV6

Because I appreciate Honda quality. I think you misunderstood my post. I didn't say that domestic car companies produce cars on Honda's level. I said that the TSX is not better built than the TL "just 'cause" it's built in Japan. That is simply false information. I've owned American-built Honda cars for years upon years and have never had major issues.

It's amazing how some people overlook the fact that Honda quality standards are Honda quality standards in all the plants, regardless of location.

BTW - this thread is going OT, I vote for the TL. Anyone who says there is little difference in power is .

JTC05

Much more solid? Also goes to the original post stating that the doors closed with a solid thump. I have an 05 tsx and everytime I close the door it sounds like a Snapple cap popping. What is so impressive about that? You want to feel solid then try a German car. I also Have An 03 Audi A4 with 22,000 on it and it is still far more solid than the TSX. The TSX by comparison feels cheap, but then again it only cost me $25,000. Still a good buy for the money. my concern is that the TL did not feel that solid. for that kind of money I would buy another German car. Also to check in on gas milage. TSX w/ auto. Highway driving 75 mph with a slightly heavy foot out of tolls and exit ramps, I am only getting 21-22 mpg. Keep in mind that on a 25 mile one way commute, 23 of them are highway. Not to impressive. I think ideally the auto trans would like to stay around 60-65 mph for best gas mileage not 75-80.

Dan Martin

I easily manage low 30's mpg on highway trips. Cruising range is 750-800km's (470-500mi) on a full tank, but I believe sauceman has broken 1000km.

Then again, I think people are needlessly concerned with fuel economy. If they're that hard up for cash, they shouldn't be spending as much on a car. I definitely think that most people don't consider the cost of ownership when they buy.

JTC05

I am almost at 5,000 miles on the odo. I have not been able to pass about 300-315 miles on a tank. I have not taken it on a long highway trip, but on the 25 mile commute at 75-80 mph and very little stop and go it keeps coming back with 21-22 mpg. I think it has to do with mostly the auto trans and a little with a heavy foot from stops. I'm over 3,000 on the tach at these speeds. What is it with a manual?

Dan Martin

The manual is geared lower, so I'd estimate somewhere around 3300rpm at 120km/h (75mph).

Sclass88

I'll chime in.

My dad owns an '05 TL and I own an '04 TSX. Overall, both are flawless cars but are made for different people.

I can say that his TL does have a few more rattles than the TSX does but nothing that he is reconsidering his decision in buying the TL. The engine in the TL is awsome. It doesn't have much low end torque but once you get on that car, it wants to FLY. Torque steer is somewhat of a downside out of the TL that the TSX doesn't have but its becasue the TSX doesn't have the power that the TL does.

Handling out of the TL is decent, not as exciting as the TSX but it's nice. Of the two interiors (both non-navi's) I do like the interior of my TSX better. I think that the plastics in the TL feel cheap and not as smooth as the plastics in the TSX. However, I do love all of the technological features that he has that my '04 doesn't have but the new '06 TSX makes up for that.

Overall, both are fantastic choices. Good Luck with your choice!

micvog

I agree with the remarks about the German cars (the best car I ever had was a '99 MB C230); my comments were TSX vs TL only. No Japanese car compares to any German car as far as being "solid", but the TSX is definitely much better than the TL. For some reason, and it is the TL driver's door only, every time you close it it sounds like the window glass is breaking. It is a common complaint on the TL forums.

Regarding mileage, 21-22 sucks. My TL was getting 23 with an 18 mile one-way commute of which ~10 are highway. I would expect my TSX to get ~26-27. Right now doing almost all freeway miles on the TSX at 70-80 MPH, the info cluster is showing an average of 31 MPG after about 150 miles. It is admittedly very early and I expect those numbers to drop by about 4-5 MPG.

Mokos23

Does anyone know when exactly the time, like probably in the mid-80s I think? When did Japanese built cars come out to better quality and reliability than American built cars?

I know that my uncle told me that Made in Japan in the 70s and early 80s meant junk compared to Made in the USA around the same time.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

You need to learn how to drive. When I had my 04, I easily got 23 mpg in city driving even with a bit of lead-footing. On a 450 mile one-way trip, I got 31 mpg cruising at 75 mph, stopping only for minor traffic and tollbooths. If you're only getting 21-22 on the highway, it's not the car, it's your driving. Fix your driving and the car will perform as advertised.

Black_6spd

Go for the TL, TSXmeister! Looks like you'll have to change your screename.

After reading your review of both cars, I'm sure you won't regret getting the TL.

TSXmeister

[QUOTE=Black_6spd]Go for the TL, TSXmeister! Looks like you'll have to change your screename.

Yeah I had a screename (TLmeister) already....I've been lurking/posting on the TL forum also. Posted the same thread on both TL/TSX forums.

TSXmeister

I had the opposite...I felt the road and the bumps on the TSX but feeling well controlled on the road as for the TL it was smooth and refined going over the same road surface.

When I go back to the dealership for the day I'll purchase the car....I will request for another test drive of the TSX only.

viffer

I just traded an 04 TL 6MT for an 06 TSX 6MT.
When I purchased the TL, it was a tough decision. It was power and refinement vs. handling/tossability and the fun of driving on the twisty roads. The power (and toys) won out.
I like the TSX better. Its more fun to drive and puts commucates better. It feels like a much smaller car that it is compared to the TL. And of course it has no torque steer.
But to each their own. Two years ago, I thought I liked the TL better.

darth62

I have to say that I'm not completely convinced. I'm now on my third Honda sedan (having owned two Accords, and now the TSX). My first Accord was built in Japan, my second was built in Ohio, and the TSX is built in Japan.

Of the three vehicles, the only one with QC issues was the Ohio built model. There were also lots of little fit and finish issues (like gaps inside) that I didn't like.

But, this is a pretty limited sample. And, if you read consumer reports, they actually find better reliablity for the USDM Honda Accord than the TSX/JDM Accord.

TSXmeister

One thing I would like to ask to TSX owners, is the power adequate? I’m sure at sea level it’s not an issue but what about on high elevation areas as well as mountain driving? Does the 4-cyl strain/stress when driving/climbing on high-mountain passes? The reason for this line of questioning is my wife and I do some traveling from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas and California and we do pass by some high elevation areas. The 2000 Honda Odyssey that I drive had more than enough power when driving on those areas I mentioned and sometimes I also drive my ’03 Nissan Xterra SE/SC, as you can see both are 6-cyl power plant. I have never owned/driven a car yet with a 4 banger since settling down here in Utah 9 years ago. Well any feedback are welcome!!

micvog

Glad I am not the only one that traded from the TL to the TSX! Friends and family think I am nuts, but so far it has been the right decision for me (especially since the '06 has Bluetooth).

6SpeedTA95

Go drive one...I'm a power junkie and I found the TSX more than adaquate and fun as hell to drive...but I live in Oklahoma.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Power is plenty adequate. When I was still in school, we were right near a set of mountain passes with an average elevation of 6500 ft above sea level. I drove the car through there regularly and never felt like it was feeling weak. You just have to be willing to give it a little more gas and the car easily handles the elevation.

exexexex

I kind have the same concern.I lived in BC interior before and it's so hilly.I tried one 05 corolla by myself,with AC on,can't go over 90km/h on a part of hwy here in WOT. I know TSX has more horses than what a corolla can offer,but...... Won't have a chance to test drive a TSX to the coquihalla

JTC05

Learn how to drive? The car is a pig on gas because they are squeezing horsepower out of a small motor. I purchased the car for that reason. I enjoy the acceleration it has. I enjoy taking an off-ramp or an on-ramp c;ose to the limit because that's what the car was designed for. I use the manual shift of the automatic because it keeps the car in its powerband when I need it. Maybe you should consider parking yours for a while and buy a hybrid. I know you are a moderator and I am sure you have earned your respect on this site for the long time you have been on here, but do not forget what the car is and the passion of driving. You should give me a little respect rather than acusing me of not being able to drive. And for a reference my other car gets 26-27 mpg on the same trip with the same style of driving. That one is an A4 avant with a 1.8t and tiptronic. that is right where the manufacturer claims it should be. I might be new to this forum and to the TSX but I am not a new sports car enthusiast. Also I noticed the tach sits around 2700 at 80mph not 3000 like I stated earlier.

JTC05

CGTSX2004 you stated when you had your 2004 TSX. What do you drive now that you don't have it anymore?

Dan Martin

'06 MT TSX

GIBSON6594

That's not driving

JTC05

Then why was it put in the car? I have had my fair share of cars with manuals in the past. When you live in the NJ,NY metro area and have to sit in Friday night traffic you would understand why I opted for the Auto. I must also state that the manual feature of the auto is much better than the tiptronic. I am not complaining about the cars mileage, I am just stating that when you drive the car any thing other than like a grandmother, the gas mileage is not that good. I suppose your car is a manual and you feel the auto is a waste. My weekend car is a Factory Five Cobra that I built myself. It has 5-speed in it behind a 331" stroker. The engine was dynoed at 478 hp at 7100 rpm's. The car weighs under 2500lbs., and you probably could not hold the clutch pedal down. I am saying that anyone who questions my style of driving then why did you buy the TSX? Also why do you spend so much time on the forum swapping threads about modifying your cars, adding superchargers, changing the exhaust, cold air kits, etc. etc. If you were a driving enthusiast you wouldn't question my driving or the use of the manual feature of the automatic.