jonredraider

I am hoping this hasnt been talked about on the forum, but delete this thread if you want:

I am not familiar with James Healey, but he is USA Today's auto expert. Here is what he said in a chat about the TSX and Navi...

================================
detroit MI: James, I love your work and rarely have bought a car I didn't read your review on. I am seriously considering the 04 Acura TSX. I loved the way it drives and looks and was curious if you were going to be reviewing it or if you have seen one. Do you have any experience with the Acura Nav system? thanks and keep up the great work

James Healey: Thanks for the generous remarks. If you're a person who believes you get what you pay for, remember my take on vehicles comes in a paper that's only 50 cents.

On TSX: Love the car, loathe the navi. The Test Drive dealing with TSX was a few weeks back and you can find it in the Test Drive archives at USATODAY.com.

I agree with your evaluation: Looks good, goes great. But skip the navi if at all possible. By adding voice recognition capabilities, Acura's basically ruined it. It takes 7 - 10 seconds just to give you the 'I agree' screen before you can get going. And the voice system is lousy at recognizing what you're saying. You can use it with the punch-button mode instead of voice, but you still have to suffer the delays and cumbersome operation that comes from having that extra layer of software built in. Other Acura navis without voice-recognition aren't so bad, but are a diminishing breed. Somebody's tricked Acura into thinking this voice stuff works good. If we find that person, we should...Well, let's agree to encourage that person to get a job sorting washers at the hardware store, or sweeping up a Auto Zone.
=====================

jonredraider

Not a fan. He also says:

=========================
Easy way out is to save $2,000 and skip the navigation system. Otherwise you're burdened with:

A system so complicated — it uses Windows 4.2, as if we need more complex software — that it now takes 10 to 12 seconds to fire up, instead of the main screen popping up instantly when the car's started. That's because the voice-command setup requires so many self-checks, Acura says.
A technical nightmare that requires you to sit through that pause and the I-promise-not-to-sue screen even if you only want to use the climate or stereo controls incorporated into the navi. Other makers conveniently return you to the screen you'd been using when you restart the car — as long as it wasn't the navigation and therefore requires the legal disclaimer.
A voice-activated system that's deaf. The only command to which the test car responded was an order for the radio to scan — and then it scanned the opposite direction it was told. A cheat sheet of commands was included with the test car. But no matter how carefully and exactly the commands were mouthed, or how conscientiously the activation proper button was pushed, the result beyond the backward scan was zilch. Why spend $2,000 for an arrogant bit of electronic hooey to ignore you?
==========================

dom

Surprising, I thought the TSX Navi was excellent or so I've heard anyway.

Not many complaints. This guys as if he was using iDrive.

darth62

The Navi system IS excellent. This is another one of those reviewers who make some strong choices after having driven the car once or twice. The NAVI virtually never misunderstands me. I'm willing to be that this fellow simply didn't know the right commands to use.

STC

iTrader: (1)

I like my Navi, the extra bling factor. I hardly use it though.

tony4311

I love how being opinionated and published makes him an expert.

ostrich

I don't use the voice activated function of the navigation system (I have not had the time to learn it yet) and I find it very user friendly and useful. It took me no time to learn to use it - it's pretty intuitive! It saved me from getting lost last night.

hondaloyalist

lol

Santa Rosa Steve

Let's see, he can't figure out how to use the buttons or the voice commands, and USA Today pays him to write about cars? Some expert...

That is the only valid complaint he made, IMHO. Like ostrich, I haven't yet learned to use most of the voice commands, but there is so much redundancy built into the system, I may never feel the need to use the voice recognition.

I'd love to see Mr. James "Expert" Healy's review of BMW's new i-drive system...

Santa Rosa Steve

tsx-mdxman

Ignore Healy on this one and get the nav.

hondaloyalist

Yes the Nav is definitely worth it, from now on ill never get a car without one.

ImportsRhot

U can adjust climate control and audio without having the navi on. I dunno what he's talking about. The Navi makes the car look SOO much better and it DOES follow ur commands well.

RogerPodacter

anyone with an IQ of more than, say, 3, and has used the TSX Nav for more than 30 seconds can logically deduct that the author has absolutely no credibility...

tirebiter

I find the voice activation works pretty well, except (!!!)

It took me a while to figure out that if the screen isn't displaying a map, voice activation doesn't work. I had the Info screen up, and was going crazy trying to change the radio via voice command. Later I realized that non-info commands didn't work from that screen.

My only other complaint is when I'm on the freeway with a destination programmed in the Navi, whenever I approach an exit for another highway, it always tells me to stay on the road I'm already on. Earlier tonight it told me to stay on I95 3 times in less than 2 minutes. I wish there was some way to mute less important messages like that.

jcg878

Maybe he has a lisp?

MSB128

I have a hard time getting into my other car (Impreza WRX) or any other car for that matter, without the Navi.

The way everything is set up is just so clean and well laid out. I haven't had too many experiences with other Navis in other cars, but I have used a MB Navi (I believe it's made by Harman) and it's horrendous. No touch screen. The screen is tiny and it's just badly laid out.

I'm glad I went with this option. Well spent $2000 IMO.

Jason

It's very disappointing to see professional reviewer after reviewer pan navigation systems. It's even worse when they slam the best system on the market.

This stems from their relative lack of time in the test car. On occasions when writers take an extended drive in the test cars over an extended period, perhaps on a road trip, they invariably come back and write how wonderful it was not having to get lost. I often wonder what they personally drive and whether or not they are open to new technologies. Are us common folk the only smart people to embrace this technology?

There is no question the future of automobiles lies in a central-based heads-up system. The navigation feature is the start of what will be a wonderful tech revolution in cars. Internet, adaptive systems, e-mail, weather, integrated telecommunications, it'll all be there. How are they going to slam the cars then?

If these guys took the time to actually learn something, they would learn something! My friend Yogi told me that one (right Larch?).

dunek

The problem with these test drivers is that they sit in the car for a couple of hours, then they ake judgments off of incomplete knowledge. When, I first got the car, I did not remember all of the voice commands. At first, I was frustrated because I thought the system was inept at interpreting my voice commands. Then, I realized I was saying the commands wrong. Once I figured that out, the navi has been awesome.

Jason

Exactly. You have to know what to say and WHEN you can say it.

bob shiftright

One thing I've learned about most "experts" is that they're much more confident than non-experts when they're wrong.

As a non-expert who doesn't even HAVE the nav I'd say get it if you want it, it's one of the best around!

Santa Rosa Steve

Hey James "Expert" Healey:



:P

Santa Rosa Steve

larchmont

I love the Nav, it's great.

But....I'm not saying he's right, but, as great as it is, the Nav does have surprising deficiencies, things that seem out of keeping with the overall sophistication of the tool. Depending on who you are and what your expectations are, those things could stick out like a sore thumb. If not for the fact that I love the car and everything connected with it, I'd be bitching big time about the Nav. But I'd still consider it worth the extra cost (easy).

Deficiencies:

(1) The stuff that a lot of people say about the "voice" feature has a lot of truth to it. One thing I'll underline is, there's no intuitiveness to where you have to be on the screen in order to make certain voice features work. A lot of voice commands won't work unless you're in a certain place, but WHERE? I still don't have it straight, after 8 months.

(2) As I've said before, it's unfortunate that when asking for a route, you can't "Specify Street." I mean, you can "Avoid Streets," why not ""Specify"? If I want the Nav to show me what the route would be to get somewhere via the Parkway rather than the Freeway, why can't we specify that? Yes, you can try to hit "Avoid Street" repeatedly until you get what you want, but that's inefficient, and often in such a situation you NEVER get what you're looking for, plus.....leads to #3:

(3) The "Avoid Street" feature isn't cumulative. What I mean is, if you don't get what you want after the first try, you can repeat the process, but the system seems not to "remember" what you said in the first place that you want to avoid, and it'll just give it back to you.

(4) The most notorious thing of all, and I don't think it has ever been mentioned on our sites: The Nav should be programmed to NEVER give you a route whose first maneuver involves doing something within "zero" feet of when it first appears on the screen. Or even 100 feet. Has this happened to other people too? You're driving along, waiting for the system to give you the first instruction, and then it pops up: You have to turn HERE, right here, and of course now you're past that place. And it "recalculates," and the next instruction again is only a "zero feet" instruction. I know, in a situation like that you probably should just make a U-turn.....but you'd think they could do a better job on this.

(5) And, speaking of "recalculate," is there anything more annoying about the Nav than how sometimes/often the route begins with "Recalculate"? It's really odd, isn't it? Yeah, it means you're going in the opposite direction from where you ideally should be going, at least in terms of their #1 route, but screw the "recalculate," just CALCULATE! "Recalculate" is fine for when you make a wrong turn or something, but it should never BEGIN a route with "recalculate."

And there are more.


I'm a big fan of the Nav. Had it in the TL-S, loved it, and it's even better in the TSX. But let's not fool ourselves about it. There's a lot to object about, including what I can only call goofs. And, depending on where someone is coming from, it's understandable that they'd slam it.

Jason

You and I don't disagree on much but...

I'm disappointed you haven't done your research in this area. Here is a site that makes it a little easier:

http://www.reidpix.com/tsxnav/navidoc.asp

The voice feature is overrated anyway. I personally never use it.

This would be helpful. A nice but minor improvement.

Same as #2.

This makes no sense. If the nav told you to drive off a bridge would you do it?

I don't know that this happens much with me.

No it's not understandable. Like I said in my previous post, professional reviewers need to open their minds and embrace technology. iDrive is a good example. Owners of BMWs say it's really not that bad once you get used to it. MB owners say the same thing about the COMAND system. I sense a trend here. Perhaps if they took the time to LEARN they system it would work out for them. And if they don't have the time to learn the system, they should make a note of that in their review and not sound so frigging ignorant.

larchmont

Jase, I'm just trying to goose Honda/Acura into making it even better. You know, the Vince Lombardi approach -- sure, you just won two Super Bowls by blow-outs, but that's not good enough, you have to get even better, YEAH THAT MEANS YOU! Not that I doubt they're doing it anyway. And yes, I do delude myself that they read our site.


BTW I think you misunderstood "#4." It's not that I'd try to do the impossible maneuver, it's that the Nav should anticipate better, and it should only give you instructions that can reasonably be followed.


P.S. Maybe also I can't get over how the Nav STILL thinks my house is over there >>
across the street. Like, what am I doing over here, if my house is actually over there?

Jason

But my point is that it is a non-issue. It gives you a route thats a tweener, that is, a route that could go one way or another. Since you are moving b4 it is through plotting the route, it recalculates. WGAF.

larchmont

Jason is awfully protective of the Nav.

I think if you don't think this is a deficiency, either your love is blinding you or maybe this just doesn't much come into play for you.

darth62

Here is what I would like: Voice commands to get to the Audio and HVAC screens. For example, if I'm in the Map screen, I'd like to be able to say something like "display audio" or "display climate control" and have those screens come up. Instead, I have to reach for a button. Not the end of the world, of course, but this seems like an odd option to leave out.

dunek

[QUOTE]Originally posted by larchmont
[B]I love the Nav, it's great.

But....I'm not saying he's right, but, as great as it is, the Nav does have surprising deficiencies, things that seem out of keeping with the overall sophistication of the tool. Depending on who you are and what your expectations are, those things could stick out like a sore thumb. If not for the fact that I love the car and everything connected with it, I'd be bitching big time about the Nav. But I'd still consider it worth the extra cost (easy).

Deficiencies:

(1) The stuff that a lot of people say about the "voice" feature has a lot of truth to it. One thing I'll underline is, there's no intuitiveness to where you have to be on the screen in order to make certain voice features work. A lot of voice commands won't work unless you're in a certain place, but WHERE? I still don't have it straight, after 8 months.

This is easy. You have to be on the map screen to utilize the navigation functions. It is not going to find the nearest fast food restaurant if you are looking at the trip computer. Other than that, you can use the other commands regardless of the screen.

(2) As I've said before, it's unfortunate that when asking for a route, you can't "Specify Street." I mean, you can "Avoid Streets," why not ""Specify"? If I want the Nav to show me what the route would be to get somewhere via the Parkway rather than the Freeway, why can't we specify that? Yes, you can try to hit "Avoid Street" repeatedly until you get what you want, but that's inefficient, and often in such a situation you NEVER get what you're looking for, plus.....leads to #3:

You can always calculate a route to a particular street if you are so excited about that particular street. Or, if you know how to get to that street on your own, drive there and the navi will recalculate your route from that street.

(3) The "Avoid Street" feature isn't cumulative. What I mean is, if you don't get what you want after the first try, you can repeat the process, but the system seems not to "remember" what you said in the first place that you want to avoid, and it'll just give it back to you.

I don't use this function often, because if I want to avoid a street, I just avoid it and let the navi recalculate.

(4) The most notorious thing of all, and I don't think it has ever been mentioned on our sites: The Nav should be programmed to NEVER give you a route whose first maneuver involves doing something within "zero" feet of when it first appears on the screen. Or even 100 feet. Has this happened to other people too? You're driving along, waiting for the system to give you the first instruction, and then it pops up: You have to turn HERE, right here, and of course now you're past that place. And it "recalculates," and the next instruction again is only a "zero feet" instruction. I know, in a situation like that you probably should just make a U-turn.....but you'd think they could do a better job on this.

This is just ridiculous. If you are giving me a ride home, and I think you know how to get there, when I see that you are about to pass my street, I'm going to say "turn right here" even if we're only 100 feet from the street. If you miss that turn, and the next turn will get you there too, I'm going to say, "take this turn." Why would anyone give indirect directions when it's possible to give direct directions.

(5) And, speaking of "recalculate," is there anything more annoying about the Nav than how sometimes/often the route begins with "Recalculate"? It's really odd, isn't it? Yeah, it means you're going in the opposite direction from where you ideally should be going, at least in terms of their #1 route, but screw the "recalculate," just CALCULATE! "Recalculate" is fine for when you make a wrong turn or something, but it should never BEGIN a route with "recalculate."

This really isn't annoying. If these are the only "problems" you're having with the navi, the it must be a pretty good system.

larchmont

It is. It's REAL good. As I said above, I'm just trying to goose Honda/Acura a little bit.

But if you don't think those things are problems, you must not have experienced them. Also, as I said, those aren't the only problems.