Doesn't anybody else feel mislead by Acura?
10-08-2003, 01:42 PM
#1
Not an Ashtray
Thread Starter
Doesn't anybody else feel mislead by Acura?
I'm struck by the number of posters at this site who aren't aware that most of the "leather" covering on the seats is actually vinyl. The TSX brochure does say "leather covered seating" not "partially covered leather seating." And, I can also tell you that most Acura salesmen don't know the difference either. I think there is an accuracy in advertising issue here.
Second point, anybody else annoyed that the "heated seats" include a passenger seat that is only partially heated?
I think Acura needs to do a better job about being forthright in describing the limitations of the vehicle.
Its a great car, at a great price. But, some aspects of the marketing strike me as being a bit dishonest.
Second point, anybody else annoyed that the "heated seats" include a passenger seat that is only partially heated?
I think Acura needs to do a better job about being forthright in describing the limitations of the vehicle.
Its a great car, at a great price. But, some aspects of the marketing strike me as being a bit dishonest.
10-08-2003, 02:00 PM
#2
Senior Moderator
"Deeply bolstered front sport seats with perforated leather-trimmed interior"
Right from Acura Canada's website. I far as I can remember, its always been "leather-trimmed".
I had no idea about the passenger seat being "partially heated". Where did you get that information? The Canadian website again says:
"Heated front seats"
Right from Acura Canada's website. I far as I can remember, its always been "leather-trimmed".
I had no idea about the passenger seat being "partially heated". Where did you get that information? The Canadian website again says:
"Heated front seats"
10-08-2003, 02:04 PM
#4
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by STC
i never heated my seats yet, i think i'll do it later
i never heated my seats yet, i think i'll do it later
10-08-2003, 02:05 PM
#5
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I wasn't fortunate enough to get a brochure, but the website reads "leather-trimmed seats" In general industry speak, this means "not full leather". This terminology is widely accepted throughout the industry and is used by just about every other manufacturer that uses a leather/synthetic combination for their interiors (Audi, Infiniti, etc...)
As for the heated seats - you're right. the passenger seat back is not heated, because it would interfere with the position sensor for the airbag. It's in the manual. As I live in Texas, and don't really care about my passenger seat, I can't go there with you. But there are good reasons for them doing what they did.
As for the heated seats - you're right. the passenger seat back is not heated, because it would interfere with the position sensor for the airbag. It's in the manual. As I live in Texas, and don't really care about my passenger seat, I can't go there with you. But there are good reasons for them doing what they did.
10-08-2003, 02:06 PM
#6
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I think the owners manual states that the drivers seat has heating elements in the seat and backrest, the passenger only in the seat. I've never been in the passenger side with the heater on to know for sure.
10-08-2003, 02:09 PM
#7
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by teombe
I wasn't fortunate enough to get a brochure, but the website reads "leather-trimmed seats" In general industry speak, this means "not full leather". This terminology is widely accepted throughout the industry and is used by just about every other manufacturer that uses a leather/synthetic combination for their interiors (Audi, Infiniti, etc...)
As for the heated seats - you're right. the passenger seat back is not heated, because it would interfere with the position sensor for the airbag. It's in the manual. As I live in Texas, and don't really care about my passenger seat, I can't go there with you. But there are good reasons for them doing what they did.
I wasn't fortunate enough to get a brochure, but the website reads "leather-trimmed seats" In general industry speak, this means "not full leather". This terminology is widely accepted throughout the industry and is used by just about every other manufacturer that uses a leather/synthetic combination for their interiors (Audi, Infiniti, etc...)
As for the heated seats - you're right. the passenger seat back is not heated, because it would interfere with the position sensor for the airbag. It's in the manual. As I live in Texas, and don't really care about my passenger seat, I can't go there with you. But there are good reasons for them doing what they did.
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10-08-2003, 02:25 PM
#8
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Better than: "100% reprocessed brontosaurus hide and bovine leather"
My sales brochure says "Sport seats with perforated leather-trimmed interior" which I'd conclude means not even the entire seating surfaces, just the perforated center of the seating surfaces.
The brochure does also say "Heated front seats".
I was more unhappy about my Saab's "heated" seats. They never worked, even on the driver's side, as far as I could tell.
As for my passengers, they can walk through the snow if they don't like it.
The brochure does also say "Heated front seats".
I was more unhappy about my Saab's "heated" seats. They never worked, even on the driver's side, as far as I could tell.
As for my passengers, they can walk through the snow if they don't like it.
10-08-2003, 02:37 PM
#9
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The passenger seat back cannot be heated due to the presence of the airbag sensors in the seat back (the ones that decide if the person weighs enough, or is sitting in the correct position, to deploy the airbags).
I like the fact that the warmers have two modes, high to quickly warm the seat up and low to maintain the temp. The manual even warns not to leave in on high for continual use because it will get too hot.
I like the fact that the warmers have two modes, high to quickly warm the seat up and low to maintain the temp. The manual even warns not to leave in on high for continual use because it will get too hot.
10-08-2003, 03:49 PM
#10
Not an Ashtray
Thread Starter
The heating in the seats is a lot less useful for me without the passenger seat being fully heated. Here, in LA, it doens't often get cold enough for me to want to use my heat. But, it is not unusual for a passenger in my car to want heat. So, I just turn on their seat heater instead. If there entire seat was heated, it would be less of an issue.
As for the leather trim, I understand what all of you are saying. However, how many of you knew exactly which parts of the seats were leather BEFORE you purchased the car. Its hard to tell on a test drive, and I think that information should be very clear in all of the advertising material (including website and brochure).
As for the leather trim, I understand what all of you are saying. However, how many of you knew exactly which parts of the seats were leather BEFORE you purchased the car. Its hard to tell on a test drive, and I think that information should be very clear in all of the advertising material (including website and brochure).
10-08-2003, 03:57 PM
#11
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Originally posted by darth62
As for the leather trim, I understand what all of you are saying. However, how many of you knew exactly which parts of the seats were leather BEFORE you purchased the car. Its hard to tell on a test drive, and I think that information should be very clear in all of the advertising material (including website and brochure).
As for the leather trim, I understand what all of you are saying. However, how many of you knew exactly which parts of the seats were leather BEFORE you purchased the car. Its hard to tell on a test drive, and I think that information should be very clear in all of the advertising material (including website and brochure).
10-08-2003, 04:07 PM
#12
Not an Ashtray
Thread Starter
But, that is the point. Almost nobody here understood which parts of the car where and where not leather. And, these are probably the most well-informed of all Acura drivers.
10-08-2003, 04:08 PM
#13
Photography Nerd
The funny thing is that you probably don't want a full leather interior! The "leatherette" will wear considerably better than leather will. The perfect combo would be seat cusion and seat back in leather with sides and bolsters in leatherette.
I can see your point that it may be a little misleading but I guess I've always just known that it wasn't real leather. A lot of people can't tell the difference anyways!
I can see your point that it may be a little misleading but I guess I've always just known that it wasn't real leather. A lot of people can't tell the difference anyways!
10-08-2003, 04:59 PM
#20
Drifting
Originally posted by darth62
And how do you think vinyl looks if it is not properly treated over extend periods of time?
And how do you think vinyl looks if it is not properly treated over extend periods of time?
10-08-2003, 05:15 PM
#21
Photography Nerd
Originally posted by darth62
And how do you think vinyl looks if it is not properly treated over extend periods of time?
And how do you think vinyl looks if it is not properly treated over extend periods of time?
10-08-2003, 05:26 PM
#22
Originally posted by Dan Martin
BMW 330 with full leather after only 44,000 miles (not mine):
BMW 330 with full leather after only 44,000 miles (not mine):
10-08-2003, 05:28 PM
#23
Photography Nerd
Originally posted by dabuda2004
is this considered normal wear and tear? or was it just not properly maintained? because i've seen some late model 330s and i see the same wear while others are still in excellent condition
is this considered normal wear and tear? or was it just not properly maintained? because i've seen some late model 330s and i see the same wear while others are still in excellent condition
10-08-2003, 05:55 PM
#24
Not an Ashtray
Thread Starter
The point with the TSX is that you are not sitting completely on leather. Only the peforated sections of the seat are leather. So, if like me, your legs rest on the solid sections, you're sitting on vinyl.
10-08-2003, 06:03 PM
#25
Photography Nerd
Originally posted by darth62
The point with the TSX is that you are not sitting completely on leather. Only the peforated sections of the seat are leather. So, if like me, your legs rest on the solid sections, you're sitting on vinyl.
The point with the TSX is that you are not sitting completely on leather. Only the peforated sections of the seat are leather. So, if like me, your legs rest on the solid sections, you're sitting on vinyl.
Personally, I would buy cloth if they offered it. I don't like how slippery leather or vinyl is. The perforations definitely help though.
10-08-2003, 06:54 PM
#27
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...this topic has been thrashed out in other threads already, I can tell you with certainty that vinyl, or leatherette, or whatever you want to call fake leather, will outlast any genuine leather unless it is incredibly thick, which would make it not soft and pliable. I have had both and the leather will wear out long before the vinyl will, having the center sections made from leather makes a lot of sense, as the side bolsters are the areas taking the most punishment when sliding in and out of your seats, they are the parts that are made of longer more durable vinyl, or leatherette.
Lorne Miller
Lorne Miller
10-08-2003, 07:46 PM
#28
Not an Ashtray
Thread Starter
So, you really think that Acura does it for purposes of durability, eh? They do it for one reason and one reason only: $.
My family has had lots of autos over the years with leather seats. None of those cars showed significant wear by the time they got traded in (after 80,000 miles or so).
Also, the point of this thread was not to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of vinyl on the seats. My main concern was that I feel some owners have been mislead. When this issue first emerged on this forum, I was suprised to find that most owners didn't even realize that there was vinyl on the seatface.
My family has had lots of autos over the years with leather seats. None of those cars showed significant wear by the time they got traded in (after 80,000 miles or so).
Also, the point of this thread was not to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of vinyl on the seats. My main concern was that I feel some owners have been mislead. When this issue first emerged on this forum, I was suprised to find that most owners didn't even realize that there was vinyl on the seatface.
10-08-2003, 08:23 PM
#29
Photography Nerd
Originally posted by darth62
So, you really think that Acura does it for purposes of durability, eh? They do it for one reason and one reason only: $.
My family has had lots of autos over the years with leather seats. None of those cars showed significant wear by the time they got traded in (after 80,000 miles or so).
Also, the point of this thread was not to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of vinyl on the seats. My main concern was that I feel some owners have been mislead. When this issue first emerged on this forum, I was suprised to find that most owners didn't even realize that there was vinyl on the seatface.
So, you really think that Acura does it for purposes of durability, eh? They do it for one reason and one reason only: $.
My family has had lots of autos over the years with leather seats. None of those cars showed significant wear by the time they got traded in (after 80,000 miles or so).
Also, the point of this thread was not to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of vinyl on the seats. My main concern was that I feel some owners have been mislead. When this issue first emerged on this forum, I was suprised to find that most owners didn't even realize that there was vinyl on the seatface.
Deeply bolstered front sport seats with perforated leather-trimmed interior To me that means that anything that is perforated leather is real leather. Otherwise I would assume that it is fake.
It's definitely all about the $$$ but I really don't care. I wouldn't want real leather anyways so the extra $$$ it would cost to add it to the standard model would be a waste. I think it would be a good idea if they offered it as an option but I don't know how many takers they would have.
If you are that upset about it you should really write a letter to Acura headquarters. The worst they could do is tell you to bugger off but you might get something out of it.
10-08-2003, 08:31 PM
#30
Drifting
Originally posted by Dan Martin
I can see where you might be deceived. The web site does mention leather a lot but they don't mention what portions of the seat are covered with leather. The closest thing I could find was this line from the specifications page:
Deeply bolstered front sport seats with perforated leather-trimmed interior To me that means that anything that is perforated leather is real leather. Otherwise I would assume that it is fake.
It's definitely all about the $$$ but I really don't care. I wouldn't want real leather anyways so the extra $$$ it would cost to add it to the standard model would be a waste. I think it would be a good idea if they offered it as an option but I don't know how many takers they would have.
If you are that upset about it you should really write a letter to Acura headquarters. The worst they could do is tell you to bugger off but you might get something out of it.
I can see where you might be deceived. The web site does mention leather a lot but they don't mention what portions of the seat are covered with leather. The closest thing I could find was this line from the specifications page:
Deeply bolstered front sport seats with perforated leather-trimmed interior To me that means that anything that is perforated leather is real leather. Otherwise I would assume that it is fake.
It's definitely all about the $$$ but I really don't care. I wouldn't want real leather anyways so the extra $$$ it would cost to add it to the standard model would be a waste. I think it would be a good idea if they offered it as an option but I don't know how many takers they would have.
If you are that upset about it you should really write a letter to Acura headquarters. The worst they could do is tell you to bugger off but you might get something out of it.
10-08-2003, 08:34 PM
#31
Not an Ashtray
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Dan Martin
I can see where you might be deceived. The web site does mention leather a lot but they don't mention what portions of the seat are covered with leather. The closest thing I could find was this line from the specifications page:
Deeply bolstered front sport seats with perforated leather-trimmed interior To me that means that anything that is perforated leather is real leather. Otherwise I would assume that it is fake.
It's definitely all about the $$$ but I really don't care. I wouldn't want real leather anyways so the extra $$$ it would cost to add it to the standard model would be a waste. I think it would be a good idea if they offered it as an option but I don't know how many takers they would have.
If you are that upset about it you should really write a letter to Acura headquarters. The worst they could do is tell you to bugger off but you might get something out of it.
I can see where you might be deceived. The web site does mention leather a lot but they don't mention what portions of the seat are covered with leather. The closest thing I could find was this line from the specifications page:
Deeply bolstered front sport seats with perforated leather-trimmed interior To me that means that anything that is perforated leather is real leather. Otherwise I would assume that it is fake.
It's definitely all about the $$$ but I really don't care. I wouldn't want real leather anyways so the extra $$$ it would cost to add it to the standard model would be a waste. I think it would be a good idea if they offered it as an option but I don't know how many takers they would have.
If you are that upset about it you should really write a letter to Acura headquarters. The worst they could do is tell you to bugger off but you might get something out of it.
Talk about unfortunate typos!
Anyway, I won't beat this issue to death. I'm going to write Acura and complain, as you suggest. I don't want anything from them like compensation, I just want them to be more explicit in their advertising.
10-08-2003, 08:43 PM
#32
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Well, you can't be too mislead. The car is a 25k entry level luxo car and it is obvious, there is going to be a few things missing. Hell the interior is IMO, fabulous for the price (it shames anything in any current Nissan and most all Infinitis) still. I am an interior junkie and the TSX has the best interior for a 25-30k car. PERIOD.
10-08-2003, 08:44 PM
#33
Photography Nerd
Originally posted by darth62
Bugger off, eh? I wrote a paper about the "buffering role of friendship" and the university responded by printing up a brochure listing my research as being about "the buggering influence of friendship"
Talk about unfortunate typos!
Anyway, I won't beat this issue to death. I'm going to write Acura and complain, as you suggest. I don't want anything from them like compensation, I just want them to be more explicit in their advertising.
Bugger off, eh? I wrote a paper about the "buffering role of friendship" and the university responded by printing up a brochure listing my research as being about "the buggering influence of friendship"
Talk about unfortunate typos!
Anyway, I won't beat this issue to death. I'm going to write Acura and complain, as you suggest. I don't want anything from them like compensation, I just want them to be more explicit in their advertising.
The fact that your dealer had no idea is completely inexcusable. Acura definitely needs to know about this.
10-08-2003, 08:46 PM
#34
Drifting
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Well, you can't be too mislead. The car is a 25k entry level luxo car and it is obvious, there is going to be a few things missing. Hell the interior is IMO, fabulous for the price (it shames anything in any current Nissan and most all Infinitis) still. I am an interior junkie and the TSX has the best interior for a 25-30k car. PERIOD.
Well, you can't be too mislead. The car is a 25k entry level luxo car and it is obvious, there is going to be a few things missing. Hell the interior is IMO, fabulous for the price (it shames anything in any current Nissan and most all Infinitis) still. I am an interior junkie and the TSX has the best interior for a 25-30k car. PERIOD.
10-08-2003, 09:09 PM
#35
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The TSX does have the better interior. Better ergonomics and better quality materials, IMO. On the other hand, while the TSX interior looks like an Accord interior, a TL interior, a Avalon interior, a M45 interior, the IS 300 has the most distinct interior of any sedan. It if either LOVE or HATE. The chrono gauges (it takes some used too), the chrome shift knob, the esclaine seats, the contrasting leather piping. Plus the lil armrest is silly and useless, IMO.
So interior TSX>IS 300.
So interior TSX>IS 300.
10-09-2003, 08:37 AM
#38
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I feel a bit cheated that there are quite a lot of mfrs (including MB) I think who only put leather on PART of the seat you sit on.
Leather does require more maintenance than vinyl (which requires basically none) and the longevity of the leather seems to be related to the color. Grey seems to wear especially quickly, black seems to last longer (I've had both).
Heated seats: I'd never pay extra for them as I live in Texas, but they are extremely useful for keeping take out food warm as you drive home.
C.
Leather does require more maintenance than vinyl (which requires basically none) and the longevity of the leather seems to be related to the color. Grey seems to wear especially quickly, black seems to last longer (I've had both).
Heated seats: I'd never pay extra for them as I live in Texas, but they are extremely useful for keeping take out food warm as you drive home.
C.
10-09-2003, 08:53 AM
#39
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Originally posted by domn
Funny I never felt any heat on my back in the driver's seat? I always thought it was just the bottom's on both. Thanks for the clarification guys.
Funny I never felt any heat on my back in the driver's seat? I always thought it was just the bottom's on both. Thanks for the clarification guys.
-r
10-09-2003, 09:04 AM
#40
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Acura talks about their "value pricing". I figure the leather and seat back heat are two of those compormises. Just like no power adjustment on the passenger seat. I think Acura did an excellent job of "bang for the buck".
Bottom line, do you like the car? If not, take it back or sell it and try to get a better valued car for 26K.
Bottom line, do you like the car? If not, take it back or sell it and try to get a better valued car for 26K.