Mokos23

Looked on the edmunds website and it showed the fuel economy city/highway of all the Nissans and then Infinitis too, noticed they have ho-hum fuel economy.

Could it be due to the VQ engine? The VQ engine has the power and that muscle car sound, which I like, but the Honda/Acura Vtec cars blow it away in fuel economy.

xizor

Well likely the ones you are looking at have a V6 (Z, maxima, altima), I4 > V6 fuel economy.

Mokos23

well, i could attest to that, but how come the new TL has 20/30 on gas mileage, that is a V6 270hp car

phile

The TL has a smaller engine, though. And Infiniti will collectively score lower than, say, Acura, because its Q45, M45 and QX56 all use V8 power, which in turn brings down its fuel economy rating for the brand.

Mokos23

why then does the G35 have bad fuel economy if its a V6

Hooligan

If you look at the fuel economy comparisons by automaker and by class, Nissan is always the lowest of the Japanese. Honda is always the highest. Honda has the budget to better engineer their vehicles. This is not to say that Nissan doesn't make great products, but they lack the R&D funds that Honda has accumulated that allow them to focus on fuel economy as well as performance.

The VQ is a great V6. I'll be honest and tell you that the only Honda V6 I've ever driven was in a Pilot. I found it to be a mostly unremarkable engine.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Honda engines use the VTEC system to improve the economy and power. It allows a smaller displacement engine to produce more power while retaining the fuel efficiency of a smaller engine.

Mokos23

so, prob that could explain why most of the Acura/Honda engines don't have much torque as I had hoped for compared to Nissan/Infiniti engines.

phile

Yes, Nissans are known for their "torquey" engines.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

That's exactly the reason. The TL has a 3.2L engine that makes a lot of hp, but less torque. The new RL 3.5L engine is set to produce a lot more torque and 300hp with headroom for more power in the future.

gilboman

b/c nissan/infiniti engines generally have torque to go with their engines along with hp's. honda engines have lower torque pretty much across the board. the TL has 270 hp but " only" 238torque, whereas the nissans such as a G35 have 260hp/260torque. hondas generally have less torque. its not like honda and nissan engines give same hp and torque but nissan is less fuel efficient. hondas use less gas b/c there is less power.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Not entirely. It also has to do with the design of the engine. VQ engines are oversquare which are designed to develop more torque.

Also, let's take the older VQ30 out of the Infiniti I30 and compare it to the last gen J32 used in the non-typeS TL. The J32 made more power, more torque, but was still more fuel efficient despite the larger displacement. There are simply too many factors to take into account for there to be any one simple answer.

phile

I agree with you about Nissans having more torque, but the comparison between the TL and G35 isn't apples to apples. The TL has less displacement...obviously it'll have less torque as it's the size of the engine, not the number of cylinders, that generally determines how much torque an engine is capable of producing.

If you compare a 3.5L engine from Acura with a 3.5L engine from Infiniti, you'll see that Acura can match hp with torque.

The 3.5L V6 in the MDX makes 265hp@5800 RPM and 253 lb-ft of torque @3500 RPM.
The G35's V6 makes 280hp@6200 RPM and 270 lb-ft of torque @4800 RPM.

As seen here, both engines produce roughly 10 more hp than advertised torque...you get more power from the Infiniti only at higher RPMs - and less fuel economy.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

And I just checked, the MDX engine is a less sophisticated SOHC as opposed to the G35's more efficient DOHC design. The G35's engine also has higher compression (10.3:1 as opposed to the MDX 10.0:1). The G35 also has a weight advantage over the TL, which should improve its fuel economy.

phile

That's true...which is weird because for a while, the Japanese didn't "get" luxury - critics were always complaining about how they ride light and had doors that clunked rather than thump when closed. And now that Acura (especially with the TSX) is putting more weight in its cars for that Euro feel, we complain it's too heavy!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

People are just hard to satisfy. They complain too much. :shakehd:

eidji

Horsepower is "a unit of measurement for power which is the rate of doing work (one horsepower equals 746 watts)."

Thus, Power = horsepower, G35 is 260, TL is 270, TL is more powerful than G35. TL has better gas mileage (efficiency) than G35 (20/30 vs. 20/27). Your statement is worthless.

If you are going to try to argue things, please at least understand what words actually mean before using them.

jcg878

To paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld... why are we still measuring units of power relative to horses??

gilboman

hm... um.. how do you know i was not refering to the G35 coupe or 350Z? all of which make 280hp+ so before you try be a smartass to quote my posts.. your reply is the one that is worthless.

and also bear in mind the 05 G35 sedans will get 280hp, coupes 300hp and increased torque as well.

phile

That's just for bragging rights...Nissan is upping the numbers at the high end of the rev band, that's how they're able to keep bumping up the engine's numbers. They're not miracle workers.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Hey gilbo, try reading a post or two before you respond again. We already went through all this. Bigger displacement engine = more hp and torque. Sheesh...some people just don't bother to read. :shakehd:

ClutchPerformer

Yes. They use it in like 8-10 different vehicles. And it's a very nice engine, but fuel economy isn't one of its strong points.

Carlos Ghosn (their CEO) made a promise that all Nissan vehicles would have the most HP in their class. They're making good on that promise, but that has to come at some cost. In this case, it's gas.

eidji

Um, I quoted 260 b/c that's what you quoted. I may be a smartass, but you are a dumbass.

sauceman

Haha, nothing new there. Welcome to Gilboman's wonderful world of friends and fantacies.

1SICKLEX

I won't say they have bad economy, maybe average. But the cars make above average power so it's expected.

biker

For people who wonder why gilbo was up for the troll award.......

The new Rl engine will be a good measure as to how efficiently Honda can get 300HP out of 3.5L of displacement vs. the 300HP Nissan gets out of the VQ. I'd venture to guess the milage will be marginally better in Honda trim.

ABP-CL9-TSX

:whocares:

biker

I see you're recovering well.

phile

Yay, I can't wait. In general, Nissans have better power simply because the engines are larger...but Hondas are more cohesive in that the engine, though less powerful and smaller, works in perfect tandom with the transmission to achieve performance. I remember reading the Motor Trend 3 way comparison between the 4-cylinder Accord, Altima and Camry. Despite a slightly larger engine and higher power ratings for the Altima, the Accord was faster to 60. Ditto to the Camry.

ClutchPerformer

Exactly.

Mokos23

So Carlos heads up both Renault and Nissan, I wonder if they also use VQ engines in their Renault cars. Too bad they don't sell Renault here in the USA anymore. My uncle had one back in the day in the 80s.

dom

Porchse has them all trupmed at 345 HP/295 lb-ft from a 3.6L F6 in the 04 911 Anniversary. Not sure what mileage is but it can't be good.

Not sure if the 380HP GT3 is a 3.6 or 3.8L F6?

1SICKLEX

I want to say the GT-3 is a 3.8. The Flat 6 they use is about tapped out, they can't go over 4 liters.Until recently, the 3.5 RL made 210hp tops. It now makes 225hp. So much for a larger engine. The Mitsu Galant uses a 3.8 liter V-6 from my understanding. And the Chrysler 300M used a 3.5 liter V-6 good for 255hp since 1999.
Honda engines are very efficient. Honda=Efficiency.

HCF

Haha that cracked me up, I think I'll use it in my sig

Junkster

leave it to gilbo to stir up the noobs...

Junkster, who would like to introduce everyone to Gilbo, our resident dissident.

Junkster

No one has discussed the rev at which the max torque and HP are measured at...

Junkster, who thinks that's very important

1SICKLEX

That is the good/bad thing with Hondas. They make a lot of power with small engines but the power is near unusable bands. 6k and up. That is very noisy and you have to really rev the engine to get the power. It also brings more wear and tear on an engine.

That is why more cylinders and torque is important. You can pass a car comfortably in a VQ car without having to dump down 2 gears to get into the cars power.

phile

Somehow I'm not surprised you targeted the weakest link in the Acura lineup and completely ignore the other 3.5L in the MDX.

Mokos23

great debate we had! now i know to sum it up:

nissan/infiniti want their cars now to be more performance orientated, while honda/acura is sticking to efficiency and practicality to their cars.

btw, do lexus cars have good or bad gas mileage? never have driven a lexus before.