Can someone confirm good trade and lease question
#1
Can someone confirm good trade and lease question
I had a 2004 Acura TSX with navi and spoiler black on black with a dealer payoff of 19,100 and 57,000 miles on it that had a 15k/yr milage and 48 months and I still had 1 year 1 month left on it and I bought a 2006 Acura TSX with navi and spoiler black on black for 429 / month inc taxes with 2000 out of pocket for 48 mon lease 15k / yr? Did I get out of the old TSX and get into the new one for a good price?
#2
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Why do people always ask these questions after they get the car? At that point, isn't it a little too late since you're stuck with the car already.
Anyway...to your question, considering the taxes, mileage, the fact that you went with the navi, I would say you made out pretty well. I'm assuming you managed to talk the dealer into giving you full payoff for your 2004?
Anyway...to your question, considering the taxes, mileage, the fact that you went with the navi, I would say you made out pretty well. I'm assuming you managed to talk the dealer into giving you full payoff for your 2004?
#4
Still Lovin my 06
Originally Posted by gigabyte137
I had a 2004 Acura TSX with navi and spoiler black on black with a dealer payoff of 19,100 and 57,000 miles on it that had a 15k/yr milage and 48 months and I still had 1 year 1 month left on it and I bought a 2006 Acura TSX with navi and spoiler black on black for 429 / month inc taxes with 2000 out of pocket for 48 mon lease 15k / yr? Did I get out of the old TSX and get into the new one for a good price?
now, i put the same amount down, i'm paying $470/mo, and i own my vehicle. how is buying the car not worth it in this scenario? am i missing something?
429*48 = $20,592 and then you're done? i dunno. i just dont get the logic of some leases.
#6
Still Lovin my 06
Originally Posted by STL
It's never a good idea to trade a car that's only two years old, and leasing is bad idea unless you like having "never-ending" car payments. ![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
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Originally Posted by bradykp
well, a lot of people have never ending payments. i understand if you dont like having a car for more than 2 years, or 3 years, but a 4 year lease is garbage. money out the window.
My 2004 was traded after 2.5 years for full pay-off value. I made lower monthly payments in the meantime with a four year lease than I would have with a 3 year lease and I was able to move into a 2006 model with no money down and only my tax as a drive-off (stupid MD being a tax up-front state).
Don't immediately jump on a lease as being bad. People who know how to sit down and do the math correctly can get away with a lot on a lease if they know how to make things work.
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#9
Still Lovin my 06
Originally Posted by STL
Fixed (see above). ![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
hahahaha, true, true.
i think leases are just garbage in almost every case. if you crunch the numbers, it's rarely worth it, and you have to restrict your driving amounts to the mileage restrictions. i've crunched the numbers, rarely makes sense to do it. again, i've been paying a marginal amount more and i own it, and i could probably sell it for the same the dealer buys you out for at a minimum, since either way, that's the present value of the same car.
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Originally Posted by bradykp
hahahaha, true, true.
i think leases are just garbage in almost every case. if you crunch the numbers, it's rarely worth it, and you have to restrict your driving amounts to the mileage restrictions. i've crunched the numbers, rarely makes sense to do it. again, i've been paying a marginal amount more and i own it, and i could probably sell it for the same the dealer buys you out for at a minimum, since either way, that's the present value of the same car.
i think leases are just garbage in almost every case. if you crunch the numbers, it's rarely worth it, and you have to restrict your driving amounts to the mileage restrictions. i've crunched the numbers, rarely makes sense to do it. again, i've been paying a marginal amount more and i own it, and i could probably sell it for the same the dealer buys you out for at a minimum, since either way, that's the present value of the same car.
And in my case, why would I want to own a depreciating asset.
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
And in my case, why would I want to own a depreciating asset.
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
And you don't have to drive a ton of miles or keep a car forever to make ownership with it.
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
This is based on your habits though. Just because you have this opinion doesn't mean it's going to be true for everyone. People who drive a ton of miles and keep their cars forever shouldn't lease. But people who don't drive much, like the chance to drive a new car every few years, and have already accepted that they will have a regular car payment should lease because it allows them to have lower monthly payments.
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Originally Posted by STL
No the real question is, why would you want a never-ending car payment?
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Originally Posted by STL
No the real question is, why would you want a never-ending car payment? ![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
And you don't have to drive a ton of miles or keep a car forever to make ownership with it.![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
And you don't have to drive a ton of miles or keep a car forever to make ownership with it.
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
And I don't mind the never-ending car payment because I know that I will be in a new car every 2 to 3 years.
People have different priorities. I am a car guy who is forever looking for his next car. Ownership doesn't make a lot of sense for me because I always have that itch to scratch. Like I said before, it works well for some people and not others. But to totally discount it because it doesn't make sense to you is silly.
#16
Originally Posted by bradykp
i just don't know if i understant the logic here. so you're paying $429/mo and can drive 15k/yr for 4 years?
now, i put the same amount down, i'm paying $470/mo, and i own my vehicle. how is buying the car not worth it in this scenario? am i missing something?
429*48 = $20,592 and then you're done? i dunno. i just dont get the logic of some leases.
now, i put the same amount down, i'm paying $470/mo, and i own my vehicle. how is buying the car not worth it in this scenario? am i missing something?
429*48 = $20,592 and then you're done? i dunno. i just dont get the logic of some leases.
I agree...I pay 500 a month witht he APR special over 3 years and the car is mine. Leasing sometimes works for more expensive cars. For example you can drive an MDX for 400-500 a month whereas purchasing it may be 700-800 a month, a little too high. Or for a porsche, etc. It allows you to drive more car than what you can really afford. But with such little difference and a great APR you can just buy it.
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If any of you ppl are big into finance you should know that you don't finance a depreciating asset
If you work out the numbers, a lease isn't better or worse than financing, it's different. I leased because it acutally makes sense for me to lease the car, from a financial aspect. Never ending car payments are a small issue, because my dollar 5 yrs from now is worth less than my dollar today, i'd rather make smaller monthly payments than larger ones now... provided i can do somtehing with the money i have that will generate a larger return on my money than me putting it into a depreciating asset (which usually isn't that hard)
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If you work out the numbers, a lease isn't better or worse than financing, it's different. I leased because it acutally makes sense for me to lease the car, from a financial aspect. Never ending car payments are a small issue, because my dollar 5 yrs from now is worth less than my dollar today, i'd rather make smaller monthly payments than larger ones now... provided i can do somtehing with the money i have that will generate a larger return on my money than me putting it into a depreciating asset (which usually isn't that hard)
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Originally Posted by jpt
You've mentioned this "get out of a lease early" trick before. Is it in fact true that AHFC will pay off your lease at any time if you trade it for another Honda lease?
Originally Posted by jpt
And do they still charge you for overmileage and/or damage at that point, or do they just forgive the lease completely?
Again, leases make sense for some, and not for others. I just don't like it when people spread misinformation by saying all leases are junk without a complete understanding of what benefits there are to a lease.
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clearly you guys must be missing something, or he got a terrible deal, cuz the lease rate shouldnt' be that close to the finance rate... in a lease you should only by paying the depreciation of the asset over the term of the lease plus interest, hence the buy out value at the end (which is what the car is estimated to be worth at the end of the period..)
#20
Earth-bound misfit
Originally Posted by cibs
clearly you guys must be missing something, or he got a terrible deal, cuz the lease rate shouldnt' be that close to the finance rate... in a lease you should only by paying the depreciation of the asset over the term of the lease plus interest, hence the buy out value at the end (which is what the car is estimated to be worth at the end of the period..)
On the other hand, I intend to own the car a while, so I paid cash.
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
...as it ages, requires greater and greater maintenance...
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
continues to depreciate...
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
and isn't easily upgradable...
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Ownership doesn't make a lot of sense for me because I always have that itch to scratch.
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Originally Posted by cibs
If any of you ppl are big into finance you should know that you don't finance a depreciating asset
If you work out the numbers, a lease isn't better or worse than financing, it's different. I leased because it acutally makes sense for me to lease the car, from a financial aspect. Never ending car payments are a small issue, because my dollar 5 yrs from now is worth less than my dollar today, i'd rather make smaller monthly payments than larger ones now... provided i can do somtehing with the money i have that will generate a larger return on my money than me putting it into a depreciating asset (which usually isn't that hard)
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
If you work out the numbers, a lease isn't better or worse than financing, it's different. I leased because it acutally makes sense for me to lease the car, from a financial aspect. Never ending car payments are a small issue, because my dollar 5 yrs from now is worth less than my dollar today, i'd rather make smaller monthly payments than larger ones now... provided i can do somtehing with the money i have that will generate a larger return on my money than me putting it into a depreciating asset (which usually isn't that hard)
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Originally Posted by wndrlst
On the other hand, I intend to own the car a while, so I paid cash.
#24
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Originally Posted by wndrlst
Which is why leasing does make sense when it's a car that retains value as well as the TSX. The depreciation is so slight the first couple of years.
Originally Posted by cibs
clearly you guys must be missing something, or he got a terrible deal, cuz the lease rate shouldnt' be that close to the finance rate... in a lease you should only by paying the depreciation of the asset over the term of the lease plus interest, hence the buy out value at the end (which is what the car is estimated to be worth at the end of the period..)
Bradykp claims to be paying a total of $2k down + $470 a month for a (I believe) non-nav that should cost about $26,800 + TTL. Even if he had a no-interest loan, the payments on a $24,800 financed amount would be $516.67 a month for 4 years. In fact based on the numbers brady quoted, the car would have had to cost no more than $24,600 including TTL (that with a no-interest loan, which is worth about $2600, today, in itself). This is an amazing deal for a new TSX and I don't quite believe it.
#25
Earth-bound misfit
Originally Posted by STL
I was able to get a 3.9% interest rate on my loan, therefore I elected to finance since I should be able to make a much better return than that.
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#26
Earth-bound misfit
Originally Posted by jpt
Uh... depreciation is far, far, heavier in the first few years than over the remainder of the life of the car, even for the TSX. "Good" means that it retains a whopping 50% of its value after 5 years.
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Originally Posted by wndrlst
Which is, of course, a good point. They weren't running the promo when I purchased. I could have waited for another, but I had a buyer for my truck & they wanted it soon. (Of course, there was no impatience for the new car on my part.
)
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#28
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Originally Posted by STL
The fact you always have a car payment and the fact your "ownership" is during the time the car depreciates the fastest (during the first 2-3 years) more than outweighs your worth of future dollars arguement.
Leasing makes sense if you feel you must own a new car every couple years, but buying and owning a car for 8-12 years makes more financial sense.
1. You have some number of extra dollars in your bank account.
2. I have been driving newish cars for 8 years where you have been driving the same aging car for that period.
Which one of us is better off depends entirely on our preferences, and it is entirely possible that each of us will think he is the one that's better off and neither of us will be wrong. It is therefore a fallacy to say that one policy or the other makes "more financial sense" -- you can only say that if one way will leave you strictly better off for sure (for instance, putting your savings in an ING Direct savings account with a 4.25% APY makes more financial sense than putting them in a Wachovia savings account with a 0.35% APY, but you can not necessarily say that a money market with a 6% APY makes even more sense than that, because the person making the decision may or may not want to assume the risk inherent in the latter investment in exchange for higher yields).
#29
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Originally Posted by STL
I missed the Acura deal too (since it came out about a month later). I got this rate with Captial One Finance through Costco, but the term isn't 60 months like Acura offered. ![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
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#30
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Originally Posted by jpt
Uh... depreciation is far, far, heavier in the first few years than over the remainder of the life of the car, even for the TSX. "Good" means that it retains a whopping 50% of its value after 5 years.
I think there must something wrong in the facts we've been given. OP is paying $429/month for 48 months for his lease plus the $600 he was apparently under water ($19100 payoff value of car less $18500 that dealer claims to have given him in tradein), on a 2006 navi. Edmunds estimates it will depreciate about $13,600 during that time based on 15kmi/yr, and gigabyte paid $2k down, so he's effectively financing $12,200 at an interest rate of 29% (absolutely terrible).
Bradykp claims to be paying a total of $2k down + $470 a month for a (I believe) non-nav that should cost about $26,800 + TTL. Even if he had a no-interest loan, the payments on a $24,800 financed amount would be $516.67 a month for 4 years. In fact based on the numbers brady quoted, the car would have had to cost no more than $24,600 including TTL (that with a no-interest loan, which is worth about $2600, today, in itself). This is an amazing deal for a new TSX and I don't quite believe it.
I think there must something wrong in the facts we've been given. OP is paying $429/month for 48 months for his lease plus the $600 he was apparently under water ($19100 payoff value of car less $18500 that dealer claims to have given him in tradein), on a 2006 navi. Edmunds estimates it will depreciate about $13,600 during that time based on 15kmi/yr, and gigabyte paid $2k down, so he's effectively financing $12,200 at an interest rate of 29% (absolutely terrible).
Bradykp claims to be paying a total of $2k down + $470 a month for a (I believe) non-nav that should cost about $26,800 + TTL. Even if he had a no-interest loan, the payments on a $24,800 financed amount would be $516.67 a month for 4 years. In fact based on the numbers brady quoted, the car would have had to cost no more than $24,600 including TTL (that with a no-interest loan, which is worth about $2600, today, in itself). This is an amazing deal for a new TSX and I don't quite believe it.
His total payments over the 48 month period totals about $19500.
Also, I think that Bradykp has a longer payment period than 48 months. It seems he forgot to account for that detail...
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Originally Posted by STL
The fact you always have a car payment and the fact your "ownership" is during the time the car depreciates the fastest (during the first 2-3 years) more than outweighs your worth of future dollars arguement. Leasing makes sense if you feel you must own a new car every couple years, but buying and owning a car for 8-12 years makes more financial sense.
On a apples to apples comparison, buying a car every 2-3 years is throwing money away compared to leasing one every 2-3 years.
As for making financial sense, it's all a matter of perspective. Sure you may save money by not making car payments, but you're also missing out on the joy of driving a new car every 2-3 years, which to some is just as, or more important, than not having to make a car payment.
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jpt,
I think you're being a bit nitpicky, but in the very strictest terms you could be considered correct. What I'm really trying to say is that if someone is really worried about saving money, then they shouldn't lease (because it's better to buy and own for 8-12 years).
I think you're being a bit nitpicky, but in the very strictest terms you could be considered correct. What I'm really trying to say is that if someone is really worried about saving money, then they shouldn't lease (because it's better to buy and own for 8-12 years).
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#33
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
On a apples to apples comparison, buying a car every 2-3 years is throwing money away compared to leasing one every 2-3 years.
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Originally Posted by STL
True, but that doesn't really make leasing a great financial choice (overall) unless you ignore the fact leasing (instead of buying) is throwing money away year-in and year-out. Yes, to many it may be worth it to have a new car, but strictly speaking buying a new car so often isn't a good financial choice (unless maybe you can write off the car's depreciation). I'll put it this way: leasing lessens the cost of buying a new car every 2-3 years, but it doesn't make it cheaper that cost enough to make it (even close to being) less than buying and owning for longer periods.
#36
Earth-bound misfit
Originally Posted by STL
I wonder how many leasers here have actually owned a recent (meaning 90s) Honda vehicle for 8-10 years? ![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
I don't think it's typically a maintenance issue, but rather style and the newest technology/gadgets that inspires the more rapid turnover.
It's like owning a sailboat. Is it a good financial decision? Hell no, but it's a lot of fun.
For some people leasing a new car every couple of years belongs more under the "entertainment" budget than "transportation."
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Fair enough, but do me a favor and don't write-off leasing until you understand someone's needs. The next time when someone asks about leasing, don't automatically jump in with the "leases are garbage" comments because until you understand where their coming from.
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#38
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Originally Posted by wndrlst
I don't think it's typically a maintenance issue, but rather style and the newest technology/gadgets that inspires the more rapid turnover.
It's like owning a sailboat. Is it a good financial decision? Hell no, but it's a lot of fun.
For some people leasing a new car every couple of years belongs more under the "entertainment" budget than "transportation."
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
It's like owning a sailboat. Is it a good financial decision? Hell no, but it's a lot of fun.
For some people leasing a new car every couple of years belongs more under the "entertainment" budget than "transportation."
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#39
JPT, Where are you getting your numbers for on my lease? You are calculating something wrong bigtime, they said they only made 200 dollars on me in the deal and it was the best deal the finance person saw the whole month... Cgtsx What do you think about the deal... Buyout at end of 48 months would be 14,786...
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Originally Posted by gigabyte137
JPT, Where are you getting your numbers for on my lease? You are calculating something wrong bigtime, they said they only made 200 dollars on me in the deal and it was the best deal the finance person saw the whole month... Cgtsx What do you think about the deal... Buyout at end of 48 months would be 14,786...