dom

I know for fact I would have been better off with the V6 of the Accord either in a 6MT or Auto, I have no doubt about that. And I've stated several times that if the Accord Sedan looked better I'd be in one of those right now. But at the same time that does'nt mean I don't like the TSX. But if you bothered to read the title of this thread is asks which Honda engine is the best, not how good the TSX engine is or is'nt. Beleive me I love the TSX's engine although its saddled to car thats too heavy although thats stating the obvious. If I've made it seem like I'm disparanging the TSX's K24, beleive me that was'nt my intent, I'm only trying to point out (in this thread) that the TSX's K24 is not IMO the best Honda engine ever made. And I'm trying to figure out how it garnered 10 votes over engines like the 2.0L in the S2000 and the 3.2L in the NSX.

fdl

How do you figure the TSX 2.4 isnt better than the USDM accord 2.4? Its got 40 more hp! The reason the 0-60 performance of the 2 cars is similar has nothing to do with the engine, but more about weight, etc. How could you consider the prelude or integra type-r engine to be so great and not the TSX. The TSX 2.4 is better in every way, its just in a car that may be too heavy.

A quote from Honda Tuning Magazine regarding the TSX ....

"Sakuji Arai, the chief engineer behind the new engine, tells me that it is his favorite powerplant to date. This from the man behind the Civic Type-R's K20C and the S2000's spectacular F20C (see interview on next page). When you rev the engine, the first thing you notice isn't the power (200 hp at 6800 rpm) or torque (166 lb-ft at 4500 rpm), but rather the sound. No, it's not at Ferrari level, nor will it be worshipped like a BMW straight-six. But it's the best noise to come out of something with four cylinders since an S2000 revved to eight grand. "

ClutchPerformer

I voted for the TSX's engine.

My rationale is this: The NSX's engine started the V-TEC revolution. That's nice, but doesn't by itself make that engine great. I remember reading somewhere that the six con rods on that engine cost more than a base Honda Civic (the whole car). If you have money like this to throw at an engine, OF COURSE it will be a great engine. I'm actually disappointed that the NSX engine isn't getting better numbers.

A similiar argument could be made for the S2000 engine: if you can make an engine withstand 9000 RPM, OF COURSE you will get a big power number, and you don't even have to make torque to do it. I've driven an S2000. And I like to drive pretty fast. But there's some times where I don't want to be fast, and if you don't rev that engine up, it's like driving a Civic (no offense to S2000 owners, I still think it's a cool car). In the TSX, I have peak torque at my wheels at 2800 RPM (AND some high-rpm kick to boot).

I think the TSX engine is the best because it produces great numbers without being extraordinary in any variable except piston velocity (which is a limiter, not an enabler!). Someone (I forgot who or when) quoted a Honda engineer as saying the K24 was the engine he was most proud of to date [EDIT: and FDL just posted it right before me]. Call me biased if you want, but there's a reason for that, folks...

dom

fdl, have you seen dyno's for the K24 in the TSX to the K24 in the Accord? There's is'nt that great of a difference. But your absolutely right the main difference in performance is definently the weight.

But I'm not arguing that the K24 in the TSX is'nt a good engine, your damn right it is but it would not place in my top 5 all time Honda engines.

1. S2000's 2.0L
1. S2000's 2.2L
3. B18C5 97-01 Type R
4. NSX's 3.2L
5. B18C1 94-01 GS-R engine
5. 02 ITR/03 Euro R 2.0L (I'm guessing I'd love it)
6. TSX's K24

This is my personal preference and opinion. I love peaky engines. In fact leave the TSX's tourque where it is and give my 25 more HP. I would really love to drive a Euro R as a comparison.

justinjsw

The K24a is a fine engine in Hondas inventory...but better than the 2.0/2.2 S2000s?

The 3.0/3.2 V6 in the NSX is an outdated powerplant but guys its over 15 yrs old. It set the top end sports world in its place.

Top two BEST EVER by Honda...
3.0 DOHC V6 NSX
2.0 DOHC I4 S2000

fdl

See..i just dont understand how you can put the tsx k24 ahead of the old technology 97 integra type-r or gs-r. The TSX k24 has more torque, more hp. Its better in every way. I think you are thinking more of the car than the engine alone. If the integra had the TSX k24 in..could you imagine how fun that would be? I'd bet if you drove t would be raving about how great the k24 is.


ANd btw just for the record I dont think its better than the s2000 or nsx engines for sure. But definately a step above the old teg and lude.

TinkySD

If you every look at a dyno of a "180hp" vq25 you'll see it puts down the same peak torque as the tsx and about 40 less hp



this one has a cai. There are both weaker and strong erdynos this one is middle ground.

dom

Definently the K24 in an Integra would be awesome and yes maybe I am a tad guilty of thinking of the overall performnce of the car. But fact remains. B18C5 produced 108.3 HP per litre to the TSX's 83.3. I may also be looking at this from a purely personal point of view. I absolutely loved getting into to my GS-R and hitting 8000 RPM everyday. And I used to go to dealers just to test drive an ITR and act like I was trading in my GS-R. I love peaky engines, its my preference.

But I still think the NSX's, ITR's and S2000's engines were landmark engines, they set a standard.

dom

Damn you dyno man

If you say so I believe you. And 40HP less is about right since its a rated at 25 less.

Since your the resident dyno expert how would rate the top 5 or 3 and would the TSX 2.4 be there?

fdl

yes, i agree.

larchmont

Actually, no. Meaning, among other things, I totally agree with you.

As I said, I gotta believe it's the NSX. But I've never been in one, so I abstained.

Like Dom says, ordinarily I'd think that any TSX vote on this poll shows nothing but bias, and in fact I would have said that therefore this poll maybe gives us a good rough index of what percent pure TSX bias there is in all of our polls -- on the theory that no vote for TSX on here could make sense. But sauceman makes the case against that.

TinkySD

FYI I posted a sentra 2.5 dyno above.

Best 6
1) nsx 3.2/3.0
2)tl
3)accord

Best 4
1) f22 in the new s2k.(if the one tov tested wasn't a ringer)
2)k20a1(220hp jdm)
3)k24a2

I left off the f20c because the new f22 is just that much better, and I think the k20a1 is a superior motor. The k24a2 is the best 4 cyl for daily driving by far...especially if it was tied to a lighter car. Even 200 lbs would make a huge difference. Now when the k24a1 with the dual intake runners comes out and puts out like 230hp and 190lbft of torque then i'll have to rethink my list

Buff-Daddy

Couldn't agree more. That TSX engine was so far ahead of it's time and it's still kicking butt today. I don't care how great you all think the TSX's engine is, it cannot compare with these 2.

sauceman

Well then, prove us wrong, don't just say that!

Hondaboi

What about the B16B from the 6th gen CTR. 185hp from a 1.6 isn't bad. But my vote would have to be for the F20C. Yeah it has basically no torque until VTEC but to make 140 (150 JDM)hp with no turbo is pretty insane. Yeah I would probably drive a TSX as a daily driver but I think the F20 is just a little better than the K24 from the TSX.

And as for the NSX. Yes when it came out it was years beyonds its time. But the time has gone and Honda has made better engines. Now I'm just waiting to see what the next NSX engine will be like. I've heard many rumors but one is a turbo with 408 hp. That would be nice.

justinjsw

Prove you wrong what?

justinjsw

15+ yrs later the NSX V6 is still one of the best engines ever by Honda. That was Honda innovation at its best. The K24a...what is so innovative about it. Did it even make Wards best engine list? Not trying to down grade the 2.4L but Hondas best ever?? What are you guys smoking?

fdl

I think a key distinction needs to be made. Are we talking best for its time, or best as of today?

Hondaboi

The topic is Honda's best engine so my guess is best ever.

larchmont

......and I think it looks like best as of today.

Truly it's legitimate to look at it either way.

ClutchPerformer

I interpreted the question as "best engine relative to the time it was introduced."

It's funny how no one has rebutted my post defending the k24. :P

larchmont

I'll bet you most people are looking at it the other way (me too). But I can see looking at it either way.

TinkySD

old engines = old technology. Pretty much by default the new ones are going to be better. the k20a or a2 are better than any of the b series. the k24 is better than the h22, the f22 is better than the f20....

whent he 240hp k22 or k24 comes out that will probably be my favorite honda 4 banger

sparky57

As a certified Honda nut (both two and four wheeled) for two decades, I had to go for the S2000 motor. Why? I think it best embodies Soichiro's passion for extremely powerful small engines. I took my S2k out for a spin yesterday and just HAD to see the far side VTEC land a couple of times.

Now, had the list not been limited to production, here would be my vote:



While this is pic is of a slightly dated RA001E F1 motor, it is still gorgeous!

rw