S power

^^+1,000 Once you leave the dealership, they could give a rats ass about you too. Well maybe a 2 min phone call days later just to check up on things .

Salesman and the Financing guys are 2 biggest crook that shares the same building. One time a Sales manager pulled the "feeding family" phrase on me:

Manager: You know "so and so" have to feed his family and we have to put lights here at the dealership. Therefor I cannot accept your offer($500 over invoice).

Me: Im sorry but Im here to purchase a car and not being here to feel sympathy for anyone. And if I were to walk out of here without a car then I guess everyone is going to be homeless? I know thats not the case and hope that it is NOT the case for anyone.

Manger:

I got up and left. Just as I step into my car the saleman pulled me back and made the deal.

I understand that everyone wants to make more money but if a salesman cant afford to give up $XXX amount to make the sale then theres nothing for him if a customer walks out. And if hes bitching and whining that he cant feed his family then this is not the job for them. Simple as that.

joerockt

LOL...Thats the last ditch effort by the dealer to see if your black heart is even beating

Nice work

godfather2

sorry to hear some of you had such issues. i, on the other hand, bought the car from my pop who just happened to be a salesman at ferman acura here in florida. CAN YOU SAY FAMILY DISCOUNT?

mike4t

I went into the Las Vegas Acura today to attempt to negotiate a fair price with the sales department.

My quote included a $599 doc fee. The salesman claimed the doc fee was non-negotiable and "someone" audits the doc fees. If he lowered my doc fee he would have to go back to all the previous sales and change their doc fees too.

I have read numerous quotes from people in a few forums and I have never seen a doc fee near $599.

Thanks for the heads-up on the extortion fees!

Mizzeaux

In Las Vegas, every dealship will charge you about anywhere from $350 to $600 for a Documentation Fee. It's just one of those thing that happens in this state. Here we go with the $599 Doc to keep it honest.

This is something that is very different from almost any other state out there from what I've seen.

Here in Vegas the dealerships most commonly have a $399 Documentation fee and then a $195 "VTR" program they sell. Effectively making the "fees" just under $600.

It is something that is audited, and it is something that is a little bit different then anywhere else. I'm not sure, and I don't want to sound extremely ignorant, but I believe it has something to do with the lack of state income tax here.

It's not negotiable, and if you're really looking for a "fair" (vs. the old "Give me invoice minus holdback") price on a car, we can usually make the fees as painless as possible. We have to charge it, but we can make up for it in other ways.

mike4t

This isn't the post to go into detail about the theory of supply and demand with respect to pricing in a free market. There is no way the small profit margin between invoice and MSRP can cover the fixed costs, commissions, and interest carry of a car dealership. I doubt many salesmen know the true structure of dealerships' financials. I'm going to assume dealerships make more than that profit margin.

California Doc Fee: $45
Polite salespeople: free
CA out the door price less than Las Vegas retail: free
CA transferring the color combo from another dealership: free
Getting the car for invoice minus holdback without negotiating: priceless

Shipped to my house for $300 net the difference in sales tax.

bradykp

the tone of your post can easily be taken as cynical. i had a horrible experience at one dealership. but that happens in any business. there's dishonest people out there. most of my dealership experiences have been pretty good. especially the one i purchased from.

bradykp

the way salesmen (in almost any sales position i've encountered) often work is by saying things slickly and not including all the information. that's what makes it a scam for many buyers. not all salesman do this, but enough to create the stereotype. my salesman went over those "extras" quickly, and the tone in his voice didn't sound like he ever expected a customer to say yes. that was a positive experience. he knew it was garbage, and just went through it because he's supposed to.

i worked in sales, i know how management tells you to get so many of this and so many of that in a day/month/quarter. salesman get pushy, and commission is often the reason why.

trsos

One of the asymmetries is your time. When you to leave, it may cost you more time than the salesperson. Is it worth the driving around for an extra day or two to save the last $100?

Do the math: when you got the "best deal", how much per hour of your time did you save?

But, if you enjoy the process, its another thing.

Personally, over the course of a month, I drove all over Chicago, and walked out after a number of negotiations to get my last couple hundred. I even took my 12 year old daughter with me to learn about negotiating.

bradykp

what makes you think he can't be satisfied? just because he's an informed buyer going in, and knows that msrp is a certain number, and invoice is another number, and dealer holdback is another number.....then the salesman tries to make it sound like if they sell it for close to msrp that the dealership isn't making any money on it.

then we all know if you add accessories, they up the profit quite a bit. we know these things, and we use that knowledge to our advantage. if car companies were smart, instead of having customers and salespeople haggle over prices, they'd find some average price....something between the price people that work for deals get and the price that people who don't work for deals get....and just charge that price.

when i worked at circuit city on commission, i knew that if i sold a computer, i made $10. if i sold a printer cable that cost $35, i made $7, if i sold a pack of floppy disks that cost $10, i made $2. accessories is where we made our money. but the way i sold things is i told customers the things they might need (well sir, if you have a cd-r drive you might want to pick up some cd-r's to be able to play with it...here's what we have)....while other salesmen i worked with tried to convince them that they needed all this crap.

there's different approaches. when a salesman uses the pushy approach, it makes the buyer push back and fight harder for a deal, even if it is only $100 difference, because now we don't trust him.

my favorite tactic is the "let me go talk to my manager" move

a friend of mine had that pulled on him at a honda dealership....so he got up and followed him til the guy realized it and said "uh, sir, you're not allowed here"

we all know they just go back there for a few minutes and then come back out with whatever price they already knew.

the bottom line is, there's nothing wrong with negotiating if it's worth your time. before the TSX was even on a boat to america, i got a price of $28,300 with navi, which i consider to be pretty good. i didn't put that much effort into it, didn't haggle, i just said...this is what i want to pay...this dealer offered it to me for $28,500 and i don't want to pay that much or go to that dealer because i didn't like the atmosphere....ryan at open road said "we'll beat it by $200, but that's the lowest we can go kevin, maybe i can do something on the accessories for you on top of that"

you know what, i felt like he was telling me the truth. they couldn't go below that, or his commission would suffer, their profit would suffer (only a little, 3% holdback on a car that didn't sit on their lot for more than 2 days offers them a nice chunk), and the car had just come out so they didn't really need to negotiate.

open road is now officially the dealership i will go to if i get another acura. they sold me on the experience. i woulda bought it for $28,500 there, but they decided to beat the other dealer.

so you say because we look for a deal we'll never be happy? i have to disagree with you. i'm quite happy!

bradykp

the salespeople i know that are honest may make less per car, but guess what....they get themselves lifetime customers, easy referrals, and they sell more cars in a day because THEY spend less time haggling over dollars and just give the REAL price they know they can give. yeah, if they stood their ground and didn't drop that extra $500, they woulda made another $25 in commission, or whatever the rate is, but guess what? why not sell it, move on to the next customer, and hope that they just want to buy. move more cars, make more money, whether they're sold at msrp or not. the SALESMEN are the ones who dictate how much time is going to be spent on a deal. they should be able to read customers and know which ones are looking for deals and which are just gonna lay the money down.

bradykp

well it depends on how bad you want the car. if you can't use another acura dealer as leverage, make it sound like you'll just buy a different car. just "act like you don't need the shit, then they give you the shit for free"

bradykp

there's a mega dealer in northeast pa, motor world, and they didn't treat me like that (though i didnt end up buying there) they seemed pretty reasonable. guess it depends on the place.

bradykp

good tip, maybe i'll try this next time. it's hard for me to be hands off though...how did you determine it was a "good price"? and i assume you pay the $150 up front, whether you end up buying the car or not?

bradykp

that's a valuable lesson for her!

slickrab

I think that going in to the dealership with a set reasonable price, having calculated prehand with tax and dmv fees, is all you need. You walk in and you be firm, stubborn, and say $30,000 is the final price I will pay. Not a cent more. You can write on your invoice, dealer charge and prep labor fee and all that nonsense, but as long as the total is $30 grand you got my business. If not get up, walk away and they'll run after you. Works for me! All I paid was invoice price, taxes, and dmv fees. Just as I expected.