Acura TSX vs Legacy GT in Road and Track too.
09-09-2004, 09:31 PM
#121
Why debate over these numbers that are printed on magazines and whereever else........ and so what if the LGT can be better 'performing' than TSX or vice versa, not like most of us will be putting the car on track or racing it often anyway...... ok.... maybe the occasional autoX or track day.
I don't get why so many ppl care so much about 'my car is fater than x, x and x', or things like my turbo'ed xyz smoked a M3, and it costs $20k less..... so what..... who cares, every car was built with a targeted comsumer in mind...... money was spend in different areas... ok, that's another story, now I'm babbling about shiet.....
Just get the car that best suits you (performance, luxury, refinement, looks, price, prestige, wahtever.....) and enjoy it ppl....
I don't get why so many ppl care so much about 'my car is fater than x, x and x', or things like my turbo'ed xyz smoked a M3, and it costs $20k less..... so what..... who cares, every car was built with a targeted comsumer in mind...... money was spend in different areas... ok, that's another story, now I'm babbling about shiet.....
Just get the car that best suits you (performance, luxury, refinement, looks, price, prestige, wahtever.....) and enjoy it ppl....
09-09-2004, 11:18 PM
#122
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Age: 55
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by xizor
right on the money. Enthusiast means rice rocket to Subby fans. "I have more power, therefore I enjoy cars." No you enjoy power. Enthusiast to others means loving to drive your car, hearing the engine redline, shifting smoothly, enjoying the interior of car as well as going fast and turning. To me its about the experience, and one reason I absolutely love driving my car. I haven't driven a LGT, but I see it as too one sided to give that experience (an experience C&D found in the TSX which they constantly praise as a driver's car). I'd be happy to test drive an LGT, but I can already see it being like my friend's Evo. It can rip off the line and do insane things, but the transmission is horribly choppy, the materials inside are bad and remind you its an econobox, and the ride is simply unpleasant. Its a poor experience IMO. I still want one to race it, but for an everyday car, I'd pass. This is where cars like Porshe etc. excel, they give you an experience. The performance is there, but its more than the sum of the parts. Simply the TSX cannot be described just by numbers.
09-09-2004, 11:32 PM
#123
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fdl
... but to jump to the conclusion that the TSX falls short in performance solely on the fact that straight line accelration is lacking is a foolish argument to make. Your definition of "performance" is extremely narrow, but I understand you want to justify your purchase.
09-10-2004, 03:29 PM
#124
FYI - here's the Subaru GT board: http://legacygt.com/viewforum.php?f=5
I don't understand why some people seem hell-bent on "proving" that the TSX or the GT are crap. Obviously both are good cars that appeal to different people that have different priorities. The GT is faster. The TSX is more refined. The TSX obviously doesn't appeal to a lot of Americans that have gotta have those hp and 0-60 numbers. It does appeal to those that prefer an amazing balance across all categories (which make it more of a "drivers" car, per Car and DRIVER, as opposed to Road and TRACK).
There's also the lingering perception that AWD is always better than FWD (despite the primary advantage it has is putting power down, disadvantage = weight), or, rather, that any car with FWD cannot, by definition, be a car for enthusiasts. Ignorance is bliss, eh?
I don't understand why some people seem hell-bent on "proving" that the TSX or the GT are crap. Obviously both are good cars that appeal to different people that have different priorities. The GT is faster. The TSX is more refined. The TSX obviously doesn't appeal to a lot of Americans that have gotta have those hp and 0-60 numbers. It does appeal to those that prefer an amazing balance across all categories (which make it more of a "drivers" car, per Car and DRIVER, as opposed to Road and TRACK).
There's also the lingering perception that AWD is always better than FWD (despite the primary advantage it has is putting power down, disadvantage = weight), or, rather, that any car with FWD cannot, by definition, be a car for enthusiasts. Ignorance is bliss, eh?
09-11-2004, 11:38 PM
#125
Advanced
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Little Neck, NY
Age: 41
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Driver72
Oh, and to the poster who thought the TSX already had 175 ft-lbs of torque...you don't the car has 166 ft-lbs. That's what made Mr. Bornhop's comment in the R & T so absolutely hilarious when he said, ""Torque steer is not a problem."
Anyways, les not bash the Legacy anymore shall we? These two cars' target markets are so completely different that the numbers on these comparison test probably won't matter to the buyers of either TSX or the Legacy
09-12-2004, 07:54 AM
#127
Intermediate
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Middle-Earth
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is funny.
I've spent a fair amount of time (three dealer test drives and two "friend's car" test drives) in a TSX. I've owned three Integras (the last a '95 GSR) and two Legends, and my wife currently has a '04TL, so I have an appreciation for the Acura nameplate.
This time, I ended up with a LGT sedan. Why? I finally grew up enough to buy a functionally superior car instead of buying a car that I thought would impress others. Hopefully Acura will again someday offer "precision crafted performance" instead of "cute cars for secretaries", and I'll happily buy another. C'mon, Acura, you can do it.
I've spent a fair amount of time (three dealer test drives and two "friend's car" test drives) in a TSX. I've owned three Integras (the last a '95 GSR) and two Legends, and my wife currently has a '04TL, so I have an appreciation for the Acura nameplate.
This time, I ended up with a LGT sedan. Why? I finally grew up enough to buy a functionally superior car instead of buying a car that I thought would impress others. Hopefully Acura will again someday offer "precision crafted performance" instead of "cute cars for secretaries", and I'll happily buy another. C'mon, Acura, you can do it.
09-12-2004, 12:30 PM
#130
Registered AssHat
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Age: 46
Posts: 3,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by emgarf
....
Good luck with that gorwing up too. I hope it works out for you.
09-12-2004, 01:32 PM
#132
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Tengu
Anyways, les not bash the Legacy anymore shall we? These two cars' target markets are so completely different that the numbers on these comparison test probably won't matter to the buyers of either TSX or the Legacy
09-12-2004, 01:37 PM
#133
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by emgarf
This thread is funny.
I've spent a fair amount of time (three dealer test drives and two "friend's car" test drives) in a TSX. I've owned three Integras (the last a '95 GSR) and two Legends, and my wife currently has a '04TL, so I have an appreciation for the Acura nameplate.
This time, I ended up with a LGT sedan. Why? I finally grew up enough to buy a functionally superior car instead of buying a car that I thought would impress others. Hopefully Acura will again someday offer "precision crafted performance" instead of "cute cars for secretaries", and I'll happily buy another. C'mon, Acura, you can do it.
I've spent a fair amount of time (three dealer test drives and two "friend's car" test drives) in a TSX. I've owned three Integras (the last a '95 GSR) and two Legends, and my wife currently has a '04TL, so I have an appreciation for the Acura nameplate.
This time, I ended up with a LGT sedan. Why? I finally grew up enough to buy a functionally superior car instead of buying a car that I thought would impress others. Hopefully Acura will again someday offer "precision crafted performance" instead of "cute cars for secretaries", and I'll happily buy another. C'mon, Acura, you can do it.
09-12-2004, 02:06 PM
#134
Old fart
Originally Posted by emgarf
This thread is funny.
I've spent a fair amount of time (three dealer test drives and two "friend's car" test drives) in a TSX. I've owned three Integras (the last a '95 GSR) and two Legends, and my wife currently has a '04TL, so I have an appreciation for the Acura nameplate.
This time, I ended up with a LGT sedan. Why? I finally grew up enough to buy a functionally superior car instead of buying a car that I thought would impress others. Hopefully Acura will again someday offer "precision crafted performance" instead of "cute cars for secretaries", and I'll happily buy another. C'mon, Acura, you can do it.
I've spent a fair amount of time (three dealer test drives and two "friend's car" test drives) in a TSX. I've owned three Integras (the last a '95 GSR) and two Legends, and my wife currently has a '04TL, so I have an appreciation for the Acura nameplate.
This time, I ended up with a LGT sedan. Why? I finally grew up enough to buy a functionally superior car instead of buying a car that I thought would impress others. Hopefully Acura will again someday offer "precision crafted performance" instead of "cute cars for secretaries", and I'll happily buy another. C'mon, Acura, you can do it.
So that means your wife is a secretary...and you used to be one...
Though I did show the LGT to our secretary at work last week and she said it was a cute car...
09-12-2004, 02:11 PM
#135
Okay...now let's settle this.
I went this afternoon and drove a Subaru Legacy GT. The car was fitted with Z-rated all-season tires, an MT, and had an MSRP of approx $28,700. My test loop was dictated by the salesperson, but included several hard turns. I drove the Legacy GT first and then immediately repeated the loop in my TSX (CG, 5AT, bone stock)
My initial impression on seeing the Legacy GT is that it does indeed resemble the Toyota Camry from the rear. Sitting in the car, the material quality was okay, but definitely not up to par with the TSX. Hard plastics abound and moderately comfortable bucket seats.
Driving impression after firing up the car included moderate body roll (definitely more than the TSX), lots of power, and lots of noise. The engine is LOUD! At about 3000 rpms, the sound is about as loud as the TSX at WOT. You notice the roughness of the motor as well. This is far from a luxury car no matter how you look at it. On the road, the suspension is noticeably softer than the TSXs. In fact, the ride is just a tad better than the TSXs. There is lots and lots of power from the motor, but it still suffers from Turbo Boost Syndrome (power is peaky and comes on in one strong rush, though this is not to say that the car is lacking low end torque, it just has a sudden burst of power when the turbo hits). Around the corners, I had to slow earlier on turn-in (despite the shorter sidewall Potenza tires) and the steering is numb and does not provide sufficient feedback on the direction of the front wheels. Staying on the power through the turn is a must because if you back off, the nose will want to push. Through one particular turn, the GT severely understeered despite my foot on the throttle. To put it in short, the GT definitely has a softer suspension matched to a rididculously powerful engine with power put to the ground via AWD through a rather
transmission linkage.
My drive through the same loops with the TSX revealed just how strong a chassis the TSX is. Using the sport shift, I rowed through the gears myself to equalize the need to shift. VSA was shut off as the Legacy does not have traction control of any sort. The TSX suspension is noticeably stiffer and there is noticeably less body roll. Through the corner where the Legacy understeered, the TSX pulled through like a champ with almost no understeer at all. In fact, I was able to exit the turn carrying more speed in the TSX than I was able to carry with the Legacy, though the Legacy quickly makes up the difference with the power.
In summary, the TSX is definitely a better handling car, even on the lousy Michelin tires. With VSA off, the TSX is quite neutral with minimal understeer. The Legacy GT is a decent handling car, but suffers from moderate understeer and a peaky power delivery. It is a fun car to drive, but can be a chore as you have to be really attentive to the steering because there is not a great deal of feedback.
Done.
I went this afternoon and drove a Subaru Legacy GT. The car was fitted with Z-rated all-season tires, an MT, and had an MSRP of approx $28,700. My test loop was dictated by the salesperson, but included several hard turns. I drove the Legacy GT first and then immediately repeated the loop in my TSX (CG, 5AT, bone stock)
My initial impression on seeing the Legacy GT is that it does indeed resemble the Toyota Camry from the rear. Sitting in the car, the material quality was okay, but definitely not up to par with the TSX. Hard plastics abound and moderately comfortable bucket seats.
Driving impression after firing up the car included moderate body roll (definitely more than the TSX), lots of power, and lots of noise. The engine is LOUD! At about 3000 rpms, the sound is about as loud as the TSX at WOT. You notice the roughness of the motor as well. This is far from a luxury car no matter how you look at it. On the road, the suspension is noticeably softer than the TSXs. In fact, the ride is just a tad better than the TSXs. There is lots and lots of power from the motor, but it still suffers from Turbo Boost Syndrome (power is peaky and comes on in one strong rush, though this is not to say that the car is lacking low end torque, it just has a sudden burst of power when the turbo hits). Around the corners, I had to slow earlier on turn-in (despite the shorter sidewall Potenza tires) and the steering is numb and does not provide sufficient feedback on the direction of the front wheels. Staying on the power through the turn is a must because if you back off, the nose will want to push. Through one particular turn, the GT severely understeered despite my foot on the throttle. To put it in short, the GT definitely has a softer suspension matched to a rididculously powerful engine with power put to the ground via AWD through a rather
transmission linkage.My drive through the same loops with the TSX revealed just how strong a chassis the TSX is. Using the sport shift, I rowed through the gears myself to equalize the need to shift. VSA was shut off as the Legacy does not have traction control of any sort. The TSX suspension is noticeably stiffer and there is noticeably less body roll. Through the corner where the Legacy understeered, the TSX pulled through like a champ with almost no understeer at all. In fact, I was able to exit the turn carrying more speed in the TSX than I was able to carry with the Legacy, though the Legacy quickly makes up the difference with the power.
In summary, the TSX is definitely a better handling car, even on the lousy Michelin tires. With VSA off, the TSX is quite neutral with minimal understeer. The Legacy GT is a decent handling car, but suffers from moderate understeer and a peaky power delivery. It is a fun car to drive, but can be a chore as you have to be really attentive to the steering because there is not a great deal of feedback.
Done.
09-12-2004, 03:30 PM
#137
Safety Car
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Age: 75
Posts: 4,246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Done.
In passing, I would note that, however appealing the TSX may be to secretarys the world around, the TSX has a body style and interior fitout that betrays a considerable focus on line and understated design. The Subarus have never achieved an effective or clear design; their box-on-box design is tired, limited and visually awkward, the interiors fussy and ill-resolved. At the age of 55, I really don't give a rat's ass whether the car I drive "impresses" or not. However, on a highly personal level, I don't like driving dorky-looking cars.
09-12-2004, 07:34 PM
#138
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Age: 52
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, many of you have read my review of the two cars (and the S40 T5) as well and have seen that in "points" I also gave the TSX the win by one point.
But this "review" below has a lot of inconsistencies and bias in it, (which is to be expected from an owner who is "used" to one/his car) that I feel I must point out. When I drove the cars, like the auto journalists, I had about equal seat time in all, so there was no familiarity with any one car, Though I "ordered" the LGT before my test drives I did NOT commit to it and could of pulled out at ANY time, with NO financial obligations therefore there was no bias. My responses are in bold within the quote.
Next time could you be a little bit more biased in your "review?"
I appreciate the fact that you obviously like your TSX and that you are obviously A LOT more familiar and therefore comfortable with it...but your "review" was just so untrue and glaringly lopsided that you have no integrity to "compare" vehicles again.
TSX is a great feeling car which is fun to drive, but you were wrong on almost every point you made. Sorry. Done.
But this "review" below has a lot of inconsistencies and bias in it, (which is to be expected from an owner who is "used" to one/his car) that I feel I must point out. When I drove the cars, like the auto journalists, I had about equal seat time in all, so there was no familiarity with any one car, Though I "ordered" the LGT before my test drives I did NOT commit to it and could of pulled out at ANY time, with NO financial obligations therefore there was no bias. My responses are in bold within the quote.
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Okay...now let's settle this.
My initial impression on seeing the Legacy GT is that it does indeed resemble the Toyota Camry from the rear. Sitting in the car, the material quality was okay, but definitely not up to par with the TSX. Hard plastics abound and moderately comfortable bucket seats.
*** You have obviously gotten really used to your TSX's seats. They were nice and fit like a glove, but to call the LGT's seats "moderately comfortable" is again apparently just unfamiliarity and bias.
Consider...Road and Track editors gave the LGT's seats better scores than the TSX's.
Car and Driver doesn't really score based on "front seat feel" but in "front seat space" they too gave the higher score to the LGT. However, once again, highlighting the inconsistencies of Car and Driver's scoring, they gave the TSX higher scores in "driver comfort." I personally liked both seats. The TSX felt great and as I said, "fit like a glove" but the LGT's also felt great but had more room. I'd call that a draw by several people that aren't owners.***
Driving impression after firing up the car included moderate body roll (definitely more than the TSX), lots of power, and lots of noise. The engine is LOUD! At about 3000 rpms, the sound is about as loud as the TSX at WOT. You notice the roughness of the motor as well. This is far from a luxury car no matter how you look at it.
***Sorry, but once again, I have to call biased BS here. I was personally shocked at how quiet the LGT was. And based on TWO separate decibel meters by TWO separate auto magazines, they are remarkable similiar.
Car and Driver has them at the exact same 40 db at idle.
Car and Driver has the LGT 1 db QUIETER at WOT...there goes your comment.
Car and Driver has the TSX 1db quieter at 70 mph cruise.
However,
Road and Track has the TSX 1db quieter at idle
Road and Track has the two cars even at WOT
Road and Track has the LGT 1db quieter at 70 mph.
I again, agreed with the car mags, I couldn't tell which was quieter...they were that close.
Your "review" has been proven just plain wrong and apparently drenched in bias.***
On the road, the suspension is noticeably softer than the TSXs. In fact, the ride is just a tad better than the TSXs.
*** Agreed.***
There is lots and lots of power from the motor, but it still suffers from Turbo Boost Syndrome (power is peaky and comes on in one strong rush, though this is not to say that the car is lacking low end torque, it just has a sudden burst of power when the turbo hits).
*** You haven't driven too many turbo charged cars huh? Your used to gutless power below 5000 rpm. The LGT has been described by MANY who are used to driving turbocharged cars...like myself, to be as linear in power delivery as turbos can be.
For a "peaky" turbo feeling car...drive an EVO.
When boost hits in the LGT at about 2900 rpm, there is an obvious push of power, but it holds for quite some time as power builds smoothly but rapidly. You make it sound like a bad thing. Compared to have virtually no power below 5000 rpms like most Honda VTEC engines, having low and midrange power galore is an absolute blessing. You can read that in any number of comments by auto journalists and drivers the world around.
Heck, even they were happy to have just a smidge more low and midrange power in the new S2000. Having great thrust from down low to 5500 rpms is NOT having "peaky power" your car has "peaky power." Sorry.***
Around the corners, I had to slow earlier on turn-in (despite the shorter sidewall Potenza tires) and the steering is numb and does not provide sufficient feedback on the direction of the front wheels.
*** You don't drive AWD cars very often either do you? With AWD, you can accelerate MUCH harder AROUND the corner, not after you hit the apex. Again, I also felt the TSX's steering a bit more crisp. Which is supported by the fact is has ever so slightly faster steering ratio. But to call the steering in the LGT "numb" and not providing feedback is again, biased commentary at it's best. There's no doubt the TSX's steering is more sharp, but the LGT's is hardly "numb" and lacking feedback.***
Staying on the power through the turn is a must because if you back off, the nose will want to push. Through one particular turn, the GT severely understeered despite my foot on the throttle. To put it in short, the GT definitely has a softer suspension matched to a rididculously powerful engine with power put to the ground via AWD through a rather transmission linkage.
*** I again find this comment quite humourous coming from a person driving a FWD car. You may also want to look at weight distribution numbers between the two cars.
TSX = 59% front / 41% rear
LGT = 56% front / 44% rear.
Not only will the TSX inherently understeer and push more around any corner, but it's not as well balanced front to rear as the LGT either. I'm guessing your responses is just a lack of experience driving AWD cars and your familiarity to your TSX. Diving into a corner, powering THROUGH the corner, and exiting faster, the LGT with the AWD and better weight distribution, plus much greater power, will do this significantly faster without the pushing FWD and spinning inside tire that a non LSD FWD car like the TSX would.
Even with softer suspension the LGT understeers less. In Road and Track's test they got the LGT to not only out skidpad, but out slalom the TSX, softer suspension and all.
Further, you need only look at Road and Tracks comments about the two cars handling to support what I said.
TSX = "moderate understeer"
LGT = "mild understeer"
They said this for both the skidpad AND the slalom testing.
Then read one of the road test editors comments, "the Subaru's AWD gave it a balance through corners that contrasted with the Acura's overwhelming push."
Again, your bias is shining bright with your absolutely untrue comments. Sorry***
My drive through the same loops with the TSX revealed just how strong a chassis the TSX is. Using the sport shift, I rowed through the gears myself to equalize the need to shift. VSA was shut off as the Legacy does not have traction control of any sort. The TSX suspension is noticeably stiffer and there is noticeably less body roll.
***Agreed.***
Through the corner where the Legacy understeered, the TSX pulled through like a champ with almost no understeer at all. In fact, I was able to exit the turn carrying more speed in the TSX than I was able to carry with the Legacy, though the Legacy quickly makes up the difference with the power.
*** LOL, this is just hilarious talk here. You need more experience with AWD cars and less bias in your thoughts.***
In summary, the TSX is definitely a better handling car, even on the lousy Michelin tires. With VSA off, the TSX is quite neutral with minimal understeer. The Legacy GT is a decent handling car, but suffers from moderate understeer and a peaky power delivery.
*** Again, are you serious? You can't be. This is a joke right?
You've got EVERY point here COMPLETELY backward. The TSX has a firmer suspension, no doubt, but that doesn't mean it handles better. I can imagine that even the Acura/Honda guys are laughing at your comments that a larger displacement engine with a TURBO no less, you call "peaky" but your VTEC equipped Honda/Acura is not. That's funny shiite right there. Thanks for the laugh. And that your non-LSD equipped FWD car with worse weight distribution understeers less than the AWD equipped, lower center of gravity, better weight distributed Legacy GT. You should charge people for that kind of great comedy.***
Done.
My initial impression on seeing the Legacy GT is that it does indeed resemble the Toyota Camry from the rear. Sitting in the car, the material quality was okay, but definitely not up to par with the TSX. Hard plastics abound and moderately comfortable bucket seats.
*** You have obviously gotten really used to your TSX's seats. They were nice and fit like a glove, but to call the LGT's seats "moderately comfortable" is again apparently just unfamiliarity and bias.
Consider...Road and Track editors gave the LGT's seats better scores than the TSX's.
Car and Driver doesn't really score based on "front seat feel" but in "front seat space" they too gave the higher score to the LGT. However, once again, highlighting the inconsistencies of Car and Driver's scoring, they gave the TSX higher scores in "driver comfort." I personally liked both seats. The TSX felt great and as I said, "fit like a glove" but the LGT's also felt great but had more room. I'd call that a draw by several people that aren't owners.***
Driving impression after firing up the car included moderate body roll (definitely more than the TSX), lots of power, and lots of noise. The engine is LOUD! At about 3000 rpms, the sound is about as loud as the TSX at WOT. You notice the roughness of the motor as well. This is far from a luxury car no matter how you look at it.
***Sorry, but once again, I have to call biased BS here. I was personally shocked at how quiet the LGT was. And based on TWO separate decibel meters by TWO separate auto magazines, they are remarkable similiar.
Car and Driver has them at the exact same 40 db at idle.
Car and Driver has the LGT 1 db QUIETER at WOT...there goes your comment.
Car and Driver has the TSX 1db quieter at 70 mph cruise.
However,
Road and Track has the TSX 1db quieter at idle
Road and Track has the two cars even at WOT
Road and Track has the LGT 1db quieter at 70 mph.
I again, agreed with the car mags, I couldn't tell which was quieter...they were that close.
Your "review" has been proven just plain wrong and apparently drenched in bias.***
On the road, the suspension is noticeably softer than the TSXs. In fact, the ride is just a tad better than the TSXs.
*** Agreed.***
There is lots and lots of power from the motor, but it still suffers from Turbo Boost Syndrome (power is peaky and comes on in one strong rush, though this is not to say that the car is lacking low end torque, it just has a sudden burst of power when the turbo hits).
*** You haven't driven too many turbo charged cars huh? Your used to gutless power below 5000 rpm. The LGT has been described by MANY who are used to driving turbocharged cars...like myself, to be as linear in power delivery as turbos can be.
For a "peaky" turbo feeling car...drive an EVO.
When boost hits in the LGT at about 2900 rpm, there is an obvious push of power, but it holds for quite some time as power builds smoothly but rapidly. You make it sound like a bad thing. Compared to have virtually no power below 5000 rpms like most Honda VTEC engines, having low and midrange power galore is an absolute blessing. You can read that in any number of comments by auto journalists and drivers the world around.
Heck, even they were happy to have just a smidge more low and midrange power in the new S2000. Having great thrust from down low to 5500 rpms is NOT having "peaky power" your car has "peaky power." Sorry.***
Around the corners, I had to slow earlier on turn-in (despite the shorter sidewall Potenza tires) and the steering is numb and does not provide sufficient feedback on the direction of the front wheels.
*** You don't drive AWD cars very often either do you? With AWD, you can accelerate MUCH harder AROUND the corner, not after you hit the apex. Again, I also felt the TSX's steering a bit more crisp. Which is supported by the fact is has ever so slightly faster steering ratio. But to call the steering in the LGT "numb" and not providing feedback is again, biased commentary at it's best. There's no doubt the TSX's steering is more sharp, but the LGT's is hardly "numb" and lacking feedback.***
Staying on the power through the turn is a must because if you back off, the nose will want to push. Through one particular turn, the GT severely understeered despite my foot on the throttle. To put it in short, the GT definitely has a softer suspension matched to a rididculously powerful engine with power put to the ground via AWD through a rather
transmission linkage.*** I again find this comment quite humourous coming from a person driving a FWD car. You may also want to look at weight distribution numbers between the two cars.
TSX = 59% front / 41% rear
LGT = 56% front / 44% rear.
Not only will the TSX inherently understeer and push more around any corner, but it's not as well balanced front to rear as the LGT either. I'm guessing your responses is just a lack of experience driving AWD cars and your familiarity to your TSX. Diving into a corner, powering THROUGH the corner, and exiting faster, the LGT with the AWD and better weight distribution, plus much greater power, will do this significantly faster without the pushing FWD and spinning inside tire that a non LSD FWD car like the TSX would.
Even with softer suspension the LGT understeers less. In Road and Track's test they got the LGT to not only out skidpad, but out slalom the TSX, softer suspension and all.
Further, you need only look at Road and Tracks comments about the two cars handling to support what I said.
TSX = "moderate understeer"
LGT = "mild understeer"
They said this for both the skidpad AND the slalom testing.
Then read one of the road test editors comments, "the Subaru's AWD gave it a balance through corners that contrasted with the Acura's overwhelming push."
Again, your bias is shining bright with your absolutely untrue comments. Sorry***
My drive through the same loops with the TSX revealed just how strong a chassis the TSX is. Using the sport shift, I rowed through the gears myself to equalize the need to shift. VSA was shut off as the Legacy does not have traction control of any sort. The TSX suspension is noticeably stiffer and there is noticeably less body roll.
***Agreed.***
Through the corner where the Legacy understeered, the TSX pulled through like a champ with almost no understeer at all. In fact, I was able to exit the turn carrying more speed in the TSX than I was able to carry with the Legacy, though the Legacy quickly makes up the difference with the power.
*** LOL, this is just hilarious talk here. You need more experience with AWD cars and less bias in your thoughts.***
In summary, the TSX is definitely a better handling car, even on the lousy Michelin tires. With VSA off, the TSX is quite neutral with minimal understeer. The Legacy GT is a decent handling car, but suffers from moderate understeer and a peaky power delivery.
*** Again, are you serious? You can't be. This is a joke right?
You've got EVERY point here COMPLETELY backward. The TSX has a firmer suspension, no doubt, but that doesn't mean it handles better. I can imagine that even the Acura/Honda guys are laughing at your comments that a larger displacement engine with a TURBO no less, you call "peaky" but your VTEC equipped Honda/Acura is not. That's funny shiite right there. Thanks for the laugh. And that your non-LSD equipped FWD car with worse weight distribution understeers less than the AWD equipped, lower center of gravity, better weight distributed Legacy GT. You should charge people for that kind of great comedy.***
Done.
Next time could you be a little bit more biased in your "review?"
I appreciate the fact that you obviously like your TSX and that you are obviously A LOT more familiar and therefore comfortable with it...but your "review" was just so untrue and glaringly lopsided that you have no integrity to "compare" vehicles again.
TSX is a great feeling car which is fun to drive, but you were wrong on almost every point you made. Sorry. Done.
09-12-2004, 07:55 PM
#141
Originally Posted by Driver72
Okay, many of you have read my review of the two cars (and the S40 T5) as well and have seen that in "points" I also gave the TSX the win by one point.
But this "review" below has a lot of inconsistencies and bias in it, (which is to be expected from an owner who is "used" to one/his car) that I feel I must point out. When I drove the cars, like the auto journalists, I had about equal seat time in all, so there was no familiarity with any one car, Though I "ordered" the LGT before my test drives I did NOT commit to it and could of pulled out at ANY time, with NO financial obligations therefore there was no bias. My responses are in bold within the quote.
Next time could you be a little bit more biased in your "review?"
I appreciate the fact that you obviously like your TSX and that you are obviously A LOT more familiar and therefore comfortable with it...but your "review" was just so untrue and glaringly lopsided that you have no integrity to "compare" vehicles again.
TSX is a great feeling car which is fun to drive, but you were wrong on almost every point you made. Sorry. Done.
But this "review" below has a lot of inconsistencies and bias in it, (which is to be expected from an owner who is "used" to one/his car) that I feel I must point out. When I drove the cars, like the auto journalists, I had about equal seat time in all, so there was no familiarity with any one car, Though I "ordered" the LGT before my test drives I did NOT commit to it and could of pulled out at ANY time, with NO financial obligations therefore there was no bias. My responses are in bold within the quote.
Next time could you be a little bit more biased in your "review?"
I appreciate the fact that you obviously like your TSX and that you are obviously A LOT more familiar and therefore comfortable with it...but your "review" was just so untrue and glaringly lopsided that you have no integrity to "compare" vehicles again.
TSX is a great feeling car which is fun to drive, but you were wrong on almost every point you made. Sorry. Done.
. I think you need to find another forum to troll because obviously you can't accept the opinions of others, even those who might be more qualified than you to provide a good proper review. The review only sounds biased because I focused more on the Legacy than I did the TSX since people here already know how I feel about the TSX. But you're starting to sound like a total fanboy with your magazine quoting and biased comments. I don't quote magazines, I get my own driving impressions. As for the sound, maybe you need to try driving the TSX and Legacy GT back to back because regardless of what the instruments say, anyone would notice the difference in sound.So before you start trying to tear apart someone elses argument, maybe you need to look at your own perspective and figure out just how biased you are before calling me biased.
09-13-2004, 12:49 AM
#142
Old fart
Nice review CG...
Though Driver72's rebuttal is biased towards the LGT...and why do you need to keep quoting R&T's numbers if you've driven both cars yourself? I want to hear what YOU experience between the two and not what the magazines say...hell, I can just read the mag and rebut what everyone has to say about the cars myself. Maybe you need to drive both cars again
Though Driver72's rebuttal is biased towards the LGT...and why do you need to keep quoting R&T's numbers if you've driven both cars yourself? I want to hear what YOU experience between the two and not what the magazines say...hell, I can just read the mag and rebut what everyone has to say about the cars myself. Maybe you need to drive both cars again
09-13-2004, 08:15 AM
#144
I'm the Firestarter
Originally Posted by emgarf
This thread is funny.
I've spent a fair amount of time (three dealer test drives and two "friend's car" test drives) in a TSX. I've owned three Integras (the last a '95 GSR) and two Legends, and my wife currently has a '04TL, so I have an appreciation for the Acura nameplate.
This time, I ended up with a LGT sedan. Why? I finally grew up enough to buy a functionally superior car instead of buying a car that I thought would impress others.
I've spent a fair amount of time (three dealer test drives and two "friend's car" test drives) in a TSX. I've owned three Integras (the last a '95 GSR) and two Legends, and my wife currently has a '04TL, so I have an appreciation for the Acura nameplate.
This time, I ended up with a LGT sedan. Why? I finally grew up enough to buy a functionally superior car instead of buying a car that I thought would impress others.
I think your comment says more about you than about Acura.
Hopefully Acura will again someday offer "precision crafted performance" instead of "cute cars for secretaries", and I'll happily buy another.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rockyboy
2G RDX (2013-2018)
46
01-25-2016 06:00 PM
Mugen TSX
Eastern Canada
0
09-01-2015 11:11 PM
Mugen TSX
Eastern Canada
0
09-01-2015 11:05 PM
