Mokijoki

ok.. the competition in the test is a BMW 316i (1.8L) and a Saab 93 1.8t (2L). The EuroAccord is not the 2.4L but the 2L sport. Chosen cars all cost about the same (30K euro's, and yes cars are ridiculously expensive in the Netherlands so feel lucky over there !).

Please don't make me translate the whole test. Conclusion is that overall they prefer the EuroAccord over the BMW and Saab. It's the best buy for the money. Mainly performance wise, the driving sense and feeling, the build quality and looks. BMW comes second, then the Saab.

Sorry for the bad quality, but it's a scan (with an ancient scanner !) from a magazine.








I have another test where they have the same EuroAccord (2.0L sport) compete against a Mazda6 2.3i S-VT Active, Nissan Primera sedan 2.0 Tekna, Ford Mondeo 2.5 V6 Ghia and Opel Vectra sedan 2.2 16V Elegance. Guess what... The EuroAccord wins...

Dan Martin

Thanks for the scans.

Something tells me the 316 wouldn't do to well over here....

Mokijoki

Judging from the forum a lot of people already have a problem with the 200HP of the TSX... 316i is the base engine in europe for BMW.... Can still do 206KM/h though (127MPh)... 2.0L EuroAccord's (also listed as a CL7 btw :-)) factory spec topspeed is 220KM/h (136MP/h). Guess people here don't feel the need so much for big engines. Not only the cars, also the fuel is a bit more expensive than in the states...

Saintor

Come ON. A 316.... this isn't a true 3-series.

Of course, I wouldn't have bought a 47K$ 325i compared to a 36K$ TSX. But at the same lease rate or less with a I6 and equivalent equipment, this is a no brainer.

Mokijoki

[QUOTE=Saintor]Come ON. A 316.... this isn't a true 3-series.

Of course, I wouldn't have bought a 47K$ 325i compared to a 36K$ TSX. But at the same lease rate or less with a I6 and equivalent equipment, this is a no brainer.






Agree on the 316 not being a true 3 series, but the test was between cars in the same price range...

Btw, very nice car Saintor ! Love the seats in the 'true' 3 series... nice leg support...

93Kewl

Sorry, guys, I hope you don't mind if I jump in here.

I chose one of these over both cars:

Over BMW: damn, it's a nice car but I am soooo sick of every third car I see on the road being a 3-series. I see more 3 series than Honda Civics!
Over TSX - the vets here know why.

I would say that the price I got my fully loaded 9-3 Vector/Aero was right smack inbetween the a Navi Auto TSX and a fully loaded Bimmer.

Damn, I love Turbo's......

camoe

You aren't kidding. I stayed in Eindhoven for a couple of months last year and was shocked again at how much petro costs. I'm coming to Holland again in a few weeks, prepare the weather for me please.. Oh, and the taxes the Dutch pay on autos is insane! BTW...love the country.

Peace

Mokijoki

Camoe, prepared weather will probably be a bit rainy :-)

93KEWL, must admit that I also testdrove a 93 when I was looking to buy a new car (already 2 years ago). Love the Vector. I testdrove a bright blue one with full options. Only negative thing that stook with me is the dash, which is a personal thing ofcourse. 'Bad' thing about the 93 (and BMW 3-series) is that so many people are driving around in it here. That and the fact that I've always been Honda minded made me decide to get the EuroAccord (had 2 accord's before and a CRX).

93Kewl

MokiJoki,

That's funny! Living in the Netherlands I am sure is the exact opposite of the situation we have here in the US. Most Japanese cars are a dime-a-dozen and probably over there the euro cars are the same way.

sauceman

Saintor, I'm not really surprised at your posting in this thread, now appraising the BMW, and bashing the TSX. You never loved the TSX, always compared it to your prelude.

I invited you to determine it's performance on the track in Sanair (just out of MTL) for stright-line acceleration. If you want, JeffTSX is also organising a track meet in Shannonville (halfway between MTL and TO). I'll be there, Dan Martin, and Jeff (obviously).

It is your occasion to stick it in our face. Until then, it's all just

sauceman

As much as I'm annoyed by unreasonnable anti-TSX declarations, some of you guys here are just way too much fanboys about your TSX, and you have no credibility about what you're saying. You should try and be a little more balanced.

The TSX is a great car, but it's not gonna do your dishes as some of you almot seem to think it would.

Saintor

Where does that silly statement comes from? I never owned a Prelude and don't even remember having compared it to a TSX! The only thing that made me hesitate was the TL Dynamic.... but I am not ready for a 700$CAD lease monthly payment, So I have 580$CAD txs and maintenance included.

A TSX or Mazda6 would have been my 2nd choice in the 30-35K$ bracket, with a preference for the Acura. I would never pay 45K$+ for a 3 series unless it was a 330i. But, this is a particular situation; a loaded 325i at the same lease rate as a TSX. I *jumped* on it. Acceleration doesn't stand high in my priority list (I don't care whether it is 7 or 7.5s on 0-60). I do care much more however about having a sweet 6 cyl. with a great sound.

I am sure that I would have been happy with a TSX, no doubt. Thank you for the invitation even if you couldn't stand a chance. Thank me for avoiding you humiliation.

sauceman

Sorry bout that, I must have confused you with another member. Am I wrong then, or you never owned a TSX?
My offer still stands. Until then, the numbers will be taken seriously, until you prove them wrong.

And the numbers say you lose.

TinkyWinky

MokiJoki,

On the summary page for the euro-accord, they give it a thumbs down on the "Materiaal dashboard". Could the material be that different from the TSX?

Nice scan, by the way.

Mokijoki

TinkyWinky, what they are refering to is that to their liking the interior was a bit 'too much black'. It's a matter of preference, I personally think there can't be too much black in the interior. Next to that the 'sport' version has some 'carbon' effect and it was a bit too much to their liking also...

members78

i luv amstd!!
wants to go back to try more hash!! hehe

Saintor

I owned an Accord 1999 that I sold - today.

What numbers are you referring? C&D reported 2 times a 0-60 in 7s flat (Jan 01 and Mar 04) for a 325i. TSX is more like 7.5s.

sleeper

when shopping for my car, i was looking at the 325i, tl, tsx, 230k. all of the cars are great, and they all have their pros and cons. but from the beginning, value was the most important factor. now, keep in mind i wanted to buy my car straight up (no lease/financing). on a price that i could negotiate between invoice and msrp, the tsx was at least 4k less. the tl is in a different class, but the price i found for it was comparable with bmw/mb. in the end i realized i didn't need a car that cost more than $30k when i could get a excellent one for $25.8k.

what i liked most about acura is that it was loaded with standard features. i feel like my money is going towards features, not just the brand name/perceived image. i wish the stock tsx could outperform all the other cars, but i was willing to sacrifice some of the performance for those features, quality, and design. however, after a few cheap mods, i feel that the tsx is just as good as its competitors in terms of performance. now if only i could reduce some of the weight....

my biggest problem with bmw and mb is with their drivers. the vast majority are either condescending pricks or yuppie sheep.

sleeper

thank you for proving my point.

Saintor

Hey! Let me pick up my car next Thursday.... I am still a Honda owner until then!

TinkyWinky

Danke.

lamster

I'm not sure about that. Each has their own definition of "superior".

To me, just the fact that a 4-cylinder Acura can compete with a 6-cylinder BMW already says something. If you can't see this point, there isn't much more to talk about. Don't own the car just because it is a BMW and everyone else is doing it.

dom

Automobile Magazine, I believe it was Aug 2004. The TSX wins a comparo over 10 or so cars including the 325. Now can you name one article where the 3 series beats the TSX? You can't because one doesn't exist. The Automobile mag comparo was the only test.

Now this isn't to say the TSX is a superior car, IMO its a tossup with both doing different things extremly well, but the BMW isn't as superior as you like to think it is.

dom

Can I come?

dom

Insert :chicken: smiley here.

sauceman

Why yes, of course!!! That would be cool. (::insert Jean Chretien smile:: ...to see an AT in action )

dom

I'm well aware I'll probly be in the High 16's to 17's but it should still be alot of fun.

EDIT: Ooops, Shanonville, track day. I still want to come

Dan Martin

I'm looking forward to it.

...and with that, I think this thread has been officially

sauceman

Yup...

But it's for teh good cause... Proving the haters (BMW RWD snobs) the TSX can hold it's own.

sauceman, who sees more and more very similar characteristics between saintor and gilboman

Dan Martin

that's a scary thought.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Maybe they're related...

sauceman

Except maybe for the fact that they're both and are BMW and generally RWD humpers,

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Why not? They may be cousins for all we know...

dom

I thought Gilboman was just an evil computer virus created by European car manufactuers and Toyota designed with the sole purpose of trolling Honda/Acura boards spewing misinformation and hatred?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

ianS

I truly agree with you. The K24A is much smoother than M52 & M54 after 3500rpm but that is personal perfrence. I always love the high rev feeling from my lude and tsx. But just the butter smooth 6sp manual from tsx is already good enough to make me feel my E46 328i is a inferior car! The long throw, sloppy, notchy 5sp manual gearbox form BMW are totally ruin the fun of driving the car! BTW, I really hard for me to have a fair comment on a BMW since most of the time my car was in dealer to repair this & repair that! Most of the mileage on my 328i were travelling back & forth to the dealer....

03CoupeV6

Someone name one car magazine or auto journal that doesn't name the 3-series the absolute benchmark of sports sedans? It may not win every comparison test, lots to do with the high price/low equipment factor, but as far as driving dynamics, the TSX bows to the 3-series. Let us not forget the TSX is an Acura badged Honda Accord. It's cheaper, it's higher quality, and more bang-for-your-buck -- but it is not a BMW in terms of driving experience. You might be as quick (though this I doubt), but you won't be having as much fun.

But before I get flamed -- I'd buy the TSX over the 3-series anyday for the value factor alone. That and the TSX being higher quality... and that I admire Honda as a company. The TSX is also better looking inside and out, IMO.

dom

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

When was the last time you drove a 3-series and TSX back to back?

You can't really compare the fun factor unless you do just that.

And as someone who has tracked RWD race cars, I can honestly say the TSX is quite fun to drive. As fun as a race car? Probably not. As fun as most streetable sedans, absolutely. As fun as a 3-series, absolutely. It's a different kind of fun, but it is every bit as fun.

sleeper

they could be the same person. quick! check the ip address. this could be another ironchef episode.