arob89

I've wanted the tsx for a long time, but recently I've been considering the new gti or the jetti gli what are your thought on what i should get?

Black_6spd

Why not cross-shop an A3 or A4?

stewie20068

yeah I'm a big fan of the A3 and A4, but the GTI just doesn't have the looks for me.

PACman

I've driven my buddy's 05 GTI. My thoughts - smooth shifter, quick, handles well, don't really feel turbo lag. What's nice is there's a wealth of after market mods for it. But I'm bias for the TSX interior than the GTI. GTI seats are very very firm to me.

TypeRS

the new GTI looks awesome. and it's getting great reviews (Top Gear car of the year too). i love the Fast commercials on TV promoting the car.

Zephrem

I would, of course, get the TSX. The Jetta will drive very well but reliability of a VW first year model is a huge issue. If you are going to lease for 3 years, I guess that could mitigate the reliability issues; but if you are going to keep the car for a long time there is absolutely no way I'd get the Jetta. For example, the 2004 (1st NA model year) Touareg release was a debacle; it was like a beta vehicle.

Crazy Bimmer

As much as I love the GTI, Zephrem is right. I wouldnt touch a first model year car.. then again that engine isnt new.

narci

Do a search is my sugguestion.

LuvMyTSX

I wouldn't touch a VW with a 20 ft. pole. Or an Audi for that matter. Both have major reliability issues, and those grilles are just incredibly fugly.

Knox

I owned a VW Jetta (2001) for 5 years and wouldn't do it again. The service department knew me by my first name if that tells you anything. I test drove the GLI before getting my TSX and both are nice cars. But, in the long haul, the TSX will outlast the Jetta by a long shot. I had my Jetta in the shop over 20 times for unscheduled issues. Some of the problems:

Brake Light Switch - 4 times
Emergency Brake Replacement - 2 times
Rattling & Foreign Noises - 3 times

The list goes on and on...

loulinjai

agreed, owned a 92 vw, i was a nightmare....ate gas like crazy, no power (even in '92 standards), speedo went out at 130k km (techinally i never speed ), horn blew out at 115k km, lights never look even....a/c went out three times. just so many minor things that drive u nuts

kball

I'll chime in about the A4.

Got a stock '06 2.0t AT fwd with 17's. Non-nav. very fun car. Needs to be in Sport mode or tip to take advantage of good low end torque though. Extremely quiet at high speeds. Nice handling. No snow around here in So cal.

was very attracted by the 2 year lease offer. came to $1450 drive off, 398/mo (that inclues tax), $350 disposition. 10k miles year.

I shoulda negotiated for 12k.

Negs.
The side mirrors are SUPPOSED to tilt down when in reverse, and mine don't so I need to have it looked at.

Also, the headlights are supposed to shine when unlocking with remote and mine used to but now doesn't.

On the bright side...it's not burning oil.

Also, Audi is apparently discontinuing their free maintenance program starting with 2007, so this looks like the last year...though with a 2 year lease it's only a 5k and a 15k, so it's only like maybe $300 or so

jpt

I test drove a GLI before the TSX, and I've driven my friend's 06 GTI. The 2.0T is an incredibly nice engine, but nearly everything else favors the TSX in my opinion. The suspension is super-stiff, past the point of diminishing returns for handling IMO -- the ride quality is noticeably degraded over the less sporty Jetta models (and way worse than the TSX's) and handling is not a whole lot better.

The GLI and GTI comes with a special leather-wrapped steering wheel. The leather felt like paper to me, I didn't like it at all but my friend who owns the GTI does like it. Also, the GLI-specific steering wheel has controls for a bluetooth kit on it -- but you can't even get a bluetooth kit as an option on the GLI! (You can get it on the GTI I believe.)

The clutch on the GLI is poorly positioned -- I could not find a position for my foot that allowed me to lift completely off the clutch without picking my leg up in a very fatiguing fashion. I don't know about the GTI because the one I've driven was a DSG (these are the future, they shift perfectly every time and have none of a slushbox's disadvantages. Personally I still want a manual though because it's just more fun IMO.)

The GLI "sport cloth" is hideous but if you get leather this is a nonissue (and I think the leather is slightly nicer than the TSX's).

The sunroof controls on VWs are nicer than the TSX's but this is so marginal it's hardly worth noting.

Reliability concerns are very real. My friend's GTI had to go to the shop for a nav system defect before it even got its permanent plates on. I have two other friends with a total of three VW/Audi cars (A4, A6 allroad, and new beetle) between them and they have had no end of problems with all of them. Don't get a VW if you plan to keep it past 50k miles.

rb1

It's really the 3rd model year, though. The car has been available in Europe with the same powertrain since late 2004.

I note that a 5-door model will be available in July, as a 2007 model year entry.

cp3117

The base GTI is more comparable to a Civic SI. If you want to compare apples to apples, the loaded Jetta 2.0T or GLI are the cars to look at.

The Audi A4 as long as its the front-trac model is also a good choice, but audi limits your option choices dramaticaly. Unless you go to the Quattro then your looking at about 4-5k more over the TSX taking it out of the price category.(although you are getting more car).

As far as reliabilty goes, the new GTI has been out in europe for a couple years now and has been getting great reviews..even reliability, so its not really a first model year....just new to NA.
The Jetta though is completly redesigned, but has been out for about a year now and has been getting great reviews. Initial reviews on reliability have been excellent too. I have over 10k on my car now (still New really) and have had 2 problems. A rattle that was fixed in 10min while I priced out a spoiler at the dealer and a reception problem that apparently a TSB has been sent out to fix the issue...(the irony is that the first problem I had was because of a japanese part...radio built by panasonic!!)... I expect some issues with my car being a first model year (like any other new model car), but I took a gamble being the overall performace was so much better and so far the gamble has been a good one.

If your into mods VW is awesome. If you go extreme by changing the intake, exhaust, turbo, fuel pump and chip, people are getting 375-400 Hp out of the 2.0T and thats with stock internals...VW does make good quality engines.......If you just chip the car some people are getting 275-300 HP for about $500.

Do some research and you'll find out which one is better for you. If you love the TSX go for it, im sure it wont let you down as it is a good car. I liked the looks of the new jetta and the performance was the clincher, thats how I made my decision. Although I cant wait till 2008 when I hope the rumors are right and the new TSX will have the RDX engine in it. That should be a hell of a car

Zephrem

I know. The 2004 Touareg also wasn't, on a world-wide basis, technically a first year production model (note that for the T-Reg, I put NA -- North America -- in my original message). It doesn't really matter -- any first NA model year for VW typically involves reliability issues, and I guess I should have placed NA when discussing the Jetta's model year. Many people argue that any first year NA model year for German makes should be avoided, but I won't go that far...

Instead, I'll simply say avoid buying VWs for long term ownership as compared to the TSX because the statistical probability of getting a car with problems is higher than Honda/Acura; and be aware that probability increases dramtically with a VW in its first NA model year.

jpt

They do. It's everything else in the cars that falls apart, unfortunately. Electronics of every sort (from turn signals to climate control to radio) are the biggest problem. Suspension is the second biggest it seems. And it's not only first model years or even first USDM years that have big reliability problems. Don't just go by my (and other posters') anecdotes -- check consumer reports, VW and Audi were dead last on last year's 3-year reliability survey, and have been close to the bottom for quite a few years; Honda and Acura are consistently close to the top.

Saintor

I second this.

The A4 feels more upsacale than new VWs. It is only slightly more expensive than a TSX, but the lease rates are somehow depressing.

HAving said that, there is nothing wrong with the TSX (except maybe the lack of ooomph).

Zephrem

I thought this, too, at one time. The engines in the 80s and early 90s were tough. I was a big defender. But things changed with absent quality control -- Take for example the 1.8T (circa 1996 when introduced). Great little engine from a performance perspective. But, then came the issues: coilpack failures, premature turbo failures, timing belts breaking prematurely, water pump failures, fuel pump failures, and sludge (among others). Draw your own conclusions, but I would be very cautious about purchasing a VW without having 3 or 4 years reliability data on that model (and on the engine and its various components).

Crazy Bimmer

I think you have to keep the mirror switch set to the middle for the reverse tilt.

Theres a small knob near the headlight switch for the fog lights to remain on, turn it. (of course this is on my B6)

Sucks that Audi will be getting rid of the free maintenance program but all models before 2007 still get it till 50k miles. So we in the clear

For the record, my 04 A4 with 30k miles as been pretty much problem free. I had one coilpack go bad but that was an easy fix.

kball

Thanks.

Reverse tilt is definately non-op.

I'll try the fog thing.

Overall, a very, very nice car that warrents consideration for peeps that want sport+luxury and choose not to get a bimmer.

Probably a few thousand more than vdub, though.

yukit

I will also chime in with a negative vote for a long-time owning VW car.
We are seriously now thinking about getting rid of Passat 1.8T before it hits 100k miles.

The car was a blast for the first 2 years (which the ECU replacement twice was covered) It just went downhill from there.

TinkyWinky

Having been a previous VW owner, there certainly is a distinct feel to the car that is lost on the TSX. Out of curiosity, I recently test-drove an 06 6MT pkg2 18" Hufweissen (sp?) wheels GTI and came away very very impressed. It feels absolutely solid and the power delivery is way more than adequate.

Everything felt just right.

Regardless of what JD Powers or Consumer Reports may say, the GTI is certainly one car that is worth owning at least once in a lifetime.

But as much as I wanted to trade-in my TSX for the GTI (and boy did I want to), I remembered how much better luxury brand service is, compared those asshats at every VW dealership I've been to.

Knox

Agreed. But it's funny you have the "fast" as your avatar from VWVortex. Bhahaha

Ellas9

Jetta's ugly in my opinion. The 2.0T is an interesting powerplant. But the ride is too firm for my liking - if your cruising, you need some comfort. Both the A4 and the Jetta's interior have fallen behind the competition. Honda over VW (and partners) any day.

GIBSON6594

Do you have the side mirror adjuster selected to the mirror that is supposed to tilt down?

TinkyWinky

Though I was happy to get rid of my GTI, I'm still a fan.

myblacktsx

Being a former VW owner (2000 Passat GLX, 5sp), I would go for the Acura (I did!!). Had several issues with my Passat though I babied it. It had a lot of bells and whistles (rain sensing wipers - that was nice!!!, electrically folding sideview mirrors, much nicer trip computer IMO than the acura nav trip, memory seats and mirrors, matching alloy full spare), but reliability was a major concern. So, I got rid of it just before my 100K warranty ran out. It was a fun car to drive though especially after I installed the eibach pro-kit on it.

Rear tilt: on my '00 Passat, the mirror adjust selector had to be in "R" for the right side view mirror to tilt in reverse.

Count Blah

FYI, VW's promotional website for the GTI is very cool. Choose all the options you want, then the blonde will go on a test ride with you.
http://www.vwfeatures.com


Also, some great commercials here:
http://previews.thenewsmarket.com/Pr...3986_33415.wmv
http://previews.thenewsmarket.com/Pr...3986_33414.wmv
http://previews.thenewsmarket.com/Pr...3986_33416.wmv

back2acura

In your A4 the tilt feature works on whichever mirror the adjustment button is tilted towards. This allows you to utilize the functionality on either side of the car depending on which side you're parking on. Reverse while adjustment button is to the right will tilt passenger and to the left will tilt driver mirrror.

Traded in my 06 A4 when it started to rust and Audi declined to buy it back stating "it's under warranty". Body shop said there was no way to permanently repair the damage without repainting so I went back to Acura. Of course the Audi guys gave me a hard time about driving a boring car when I got my 06 TSX. Yep I'm bored...terrible to spend all my time driving to places other than the service bay like I did the Audi.

TinkyWinky

People can't be this retarded, no?

http://cgi.ebay.com/VW-GTI-FAST-Volk...QQcmdZViewItem

Crazy Bimmer

Did you sign up just to say that?

Also where was the rust? First time i ever heard about any rusting... maybe your car was in an accident during shippment. Im an audi owner and dont think the tsx is boring. Hows them apples.

The clearcoat is soo freakin thick that i would be shocked to see rust forming on any metal.

Oh and i would be pissed too if my audi was rusting.

cp3117

LOL those are sure funny. It looks like it may pay off for VW changing their ad agency this year. They have some of the best and most talked about commercials in the auto world right now.

kball

Supposed to yeah, but mine isn't working. Glad mine isn't rusting. Yikes!

Funny thing about cars acura, audi, toyota, Lexus, I've owned each and I don't think I've ever had a problem free car. But I'm keeping my 4Runner with 58K on it and now out of warranty...not sure I'd wanna keep the A4 under the same circumstance.

As others have pointed out, seems like a gamble. That said, I might lease another when this lease is up 12/07.

BTW for any So Cal forum members in Orange County, I just drove the Ortega Hwy (74) today in the A4. FUN!! Highly recommended. Be careful.

Knox

Oh, I read it wrong. I thought you didn't ever have a GTI. My bad. Rock the fast bro!

Knox

Here's a great thread on why many are leaving the VW brand: LINK

Babassboy

I know that a few years ago (in 2003-4 i believe) the president of Audi/VW addressed the terrible reliability that some of the models were suffering from and promised that the next generation of cars would be very different. I know non of this has really been proven yet but the company is advancing engineering far more than any other company is with the DSG gear box technology that Ferrari will probably buy right to use in their sports cars because it is that good! Heck i mean they built the Bugatti Veyron just to show the world what they could do. I know that I am not ready to buy one just yet but with models like the A3, RS4, and GTI comming out i think they definately have a lot of potential.

Knox

The DSG is a great advancement. However, stay tuned for a new advancement from Jaguar. Their new XK's are set to bring out a rival or betterment to the DSG box.

Crazy Bimmer

^ and BMW

back2acura

No didn't join just to say that but thanks for asking.

The bodyshop identified the rust on the car as being the worst case of rail dust they'd seen in their 20 years of business. Exterior rust was bad enough but body shop had to remove the rain channels, tail lights, and trunk lid to get to where the water run off had carried the rust from the exterior surface. Based on the fact I can't routinely remove body parts they advised that there was no 100% guarantee of correction and no way for me to see under the parts that had been removed Only option was a full strip down and repaint.

I have no ill feeling against the dealership sales staff as they were awesome. In the end even though Audi didn't stand behind the product or the customer who'd bought several Audis the dealership gave me above trade in and bought it back so that I could go to Acura. Only thing I really miss is the torque but that's a small price to pay for the overall satisfaction of the TSX .