cheese

This is my first 6-gear manual, my previous was a 5-speed manual. Anyway, i read somewhere that 6th gear is recommended at speeds around and above 50mph. Will I be damaging the car if I am running 35-40MPH on 6th? Right now I usually stay on 5th at those speeds but if I can run the car on 6th then that would be more than welcome.

waTSX

If you start lugging the engine, which is what you'll probably do if you run the car in sixth at 35mph, you won't be doing the engine any favors.

Why would you want to be in sixth at those speeds?

cheese

Better fuel economy?

PJS

I regularly sit with the car in 6th @ 1500 rpm doing 35-40mph.
Drives fine and mine's 80K on the clock now.

psteng19

Personally, I don't go below 40 mph in 6th.
And even 40 mph, I make sure I'm on at least a slight decline.

gdcwatt

I used to use 5th and 6th at low speed, thinking I'd reduce engine wear and fuel economy by keeping the revs under 2500, but too many times I'd find myself in the wrong gear (like when a light would turn yellow). I think the family find the drive is actually calmer in a lower gear, so I just don'thave to shift; it is important for me to fly below my co-pilot's radar screen.

Final

So if you suddenly find the need to accelerate due to your surroundings, you guys downshift through 3 or 4 gears if youre at 35/40 MPH in 6th?

cheese

I go down to the appropriate gear, but I do rev-match it to that gear. For example, if I need to make a turn coming from 6th gear, I will shift to neutral, rev-match to say 3rd gear then move the gear in place. I don't go down to 5th, 4th, then 3rd. Is that bad?

kysit

From fuel economy point of view, this is my learning from the 2005 Navi. Trip computer.
If I lug the engine, MPG goes down to 20-25 easily.

For example, if I am running at constant speed on 6th gear at around 40mph, I would get ~40mpg. But if I am running at constant speed on 6th gear at around 35mph, I would get 20mpg.

Seems like higher gear does not mean better MPG in all situations. Instead, I am trying to keep the engine to run between 2k-3k rpm when normal acceleration is needed. When I am driving at constant speed, I am trying to keep rpm between 1.5k to 2k.

taylor314gh

the key to mpg is keeping the car at fairly constant speed. Quick acceleration, regarless of gear or speed, will kill mpg. Using my '04 trip computer, i get 50+mpg at constant speeds anywhere from 1500 rpm to 3500 rpm. I tend to drop into 6th gear in the 40-50 mph range, though my TSX deals with low rpm alot better than my civic did.

Final

Yea I do that as well, but into turns youre technically supposed to keep the RPM's higher. Most of the time I hook jughandles/u-turns in neutral, youre not supposed to because then the car has no power at the wheels in case you need to accelerate. I try to keep the TL in between 2200-2500 RPMs when cruising. At 80 MPH in 6th Im at ~2800 RPMs and Im still getting ridiculously good gas mileage so it suits me fine.

aaronng

6th gear is fine if you are cruising, but if you want to accelerate, you must drop to a lower gear. If you floor it in 6th @ 40mph to accelerate, all you're doing is causing excessive pressure on your piston rings.

SoCaliTrojan

There's an Acura Service Bulletin (they're all listed in a sticky in the Problems & Fixes section) that states that skipping gears is bad for the synchros (http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/B060100.PDF)

cheese

That is exactly why I rev-match when down-sifhting. I never skip gears when up-shifting.

afici0nad0

i usually like to keep the rpm's around 3000, with the exception of highway cruising. in city driving, very rarely hit 6th gear.

afici0nad0

the bulletin uses an up-shift scenario as an example.

are you saying skipping gears while downshifting does not have the same effects as upshifting?

cheese

Someone correct me if I am wrong but the goal of rev-matching is to match engine rotation with the rotation of the clutch, thus giving less of a load to the synchros. Because of this, skipping gears when down-shifting in a rev-match should not have the same effect as skipping gears when up-shifting.

Final

No it has the same effect Im pretty sure, and if you skip gears its basically like riding the clutch as well when youre downshifting. But yea if you dont rev match it can take a toll on your synchros.

Zoopa

I think we suddenly have two different discussions here: skip shifting causing premature wear on the syncros and rev matching the engine.

Can anyone here confirm that rev-matching the engine does not prematurely wear the syncros by easing the load?

I think rev-matching when you go down (e.g. 5th to 3rd) is more crucial as the engine will naturally be revving much higher.

This bulletin is odd because Corvettes force you to skip shift. If you are leisurely accelerating the Corvette, it has a factory setting will lock you out of a couple of gears. The reason is that the 6-liter engine makes gobs of power in any gear, but that feature is easily defeatable.

afici0nad0

http://www.standardshift.com/forum/index.php
http://www.nerocam.com/ManTrans.asp

psteng19

Since you asked, simply put... rev matching saves clutch; double clutching save synchros.

aaronng

^^ He's got it right!

cheese

Ah, I didn't know rev-matching and double-clutching are different. This is what I do when I am downshifting from say 5th to 3rd:
a.) Step on clutch pedal and shift to neutral (from 5th).
b.) While the stick is in neutral, step on the gas pedal to match the engine speed with the tranny's revolution (rev match).
c.) Step on the clutch and shift to 3rd.
d.) Let go of the clutch and accelerate.

I guess what I am doing is Double-clutching with rev-matching. I think if this is done properly skip-shifting a down-shift should be ok. Thoughts?

BusyShifter

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ighlight=sixth

That was a post from a long time ago, regarding the damage on the drive train as the result from driving in 6th gear locally.

Though, there was no specific detail on what contribute to the problem. I think, as aaronng has already mentioned, it is okay to cruise or coast in 6th gear on surface streets, which I do quite often, but downshift should be practiced before accelerating.

BusyShifter

Found it !

That was a post from a long time ago, regarding to the damage on the drive train as the result from driving in the 6th gear locally.

Though, there was no specific details on what contribute to the problem. I think, as aaronng has already mentioned, it is okay to cruise or coast in 6th gear on surface streets, which I do quite often, but downshift should be practiced before accelerating.

BusyShifter

From what I know, if you "clutch-out" in step b.), you double-clutched as well as rev-matched . Letting out the clutch pedal allows the drive-train to engage with the engine, hence, bring the gears in motion or revolution. The "double" in double-clutch describes stepping on the clutch twice in the process.

And you also see one can rev-match without doing double-clutch.

Though, I think the damage of the car driving in 6th gear in local streets is not related to double clutch nor rev-match, since the damage sounds far worse than replacing syncho or clutch.

PJS

I wonder how many racing drivers double clutch when coming to the next slow corner or chicane on the race track?
With respect guys, I've never read so much twaddle as what the last number of posts have said.
If you honestly believe Joe Public has the propensity to drive like you've mentioned above, then you're seriously deluded - and manufacturers have been wasting a whole chunk of money on R&D'ing the mating of the correct gearbox to the engine used.

What you've written about, I believe, is a throwback to the "good ol' days" when things were very different. Nowadays, this archaic way of preserving things just isn't need as much.
Let's be honest, how many of you have had a problem shifting from 5th to 3rd to overtake quicker than if in 4th? Or even 6th to 3rd if pootling behind someone doing 35mph?
Not once have I had any problem or issue with doing that when required. And my gearbox has 80K on it with only the one recommended tranny flush/oil change at its 75K service, which was at 79K.

aaronng

I'm sure the synchros have been designed to cope with the wear of normal driving and 6th to 3rd shifts to overtake. It's just that some of us prefer to do as much as we can to minimise wear.

And you learn a new technique as well.

BusyShifter

And some prefer to practice, or learn, the right way. In addition, it is satisfying.

Sure, technology is great; hence, there are automatic, sportshift, and DSG.

Newplay1

Its really simple just slamm it into gears and power-shift don't let off the gas..

And you wake up from a dream...

frank b

These Honda engines love to rev and absolutely hate to lug.