sshah

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the board. Just bought a 2005 White TSX 6MT. It's my first manual car and have been getting tips from everyone but I find the tips conflict.
I also want some tips on how to make the clutch last.
Forgive me if these are n00b questions:

I was told never to use engine braking when coming to a stop - use brakes instead unless I'm going downhill.

Also from a standing start engage the clutch with as little rpms as possible.

Once I'm rolling should I press the clutch all the way down to shift? Friend told me no - just enough to disengage which is about half way only.

On Hill starts don't use the clutch to stop you from rolling back.. (have to practice hill starts more!!)

Any tips wrong or any to add to help me?

Thanks

sauceman

A) Not true. Engine braking can prove very efficient, and it will not significantly accelerate wear on the clutch. It can significantly retard wear on the brakes though. I've just had to change my pads with 110,000 miles on them.

B) True.

C)You should definitley clutch all the way in, it might help your syncros do the job better.

D) Quite true. You should use your handbrake to prevent from rolling backwards.

mg7726

welcome aboard!

for learning to drive a 6MT the right way, go to the TL section and read this thread,
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=manual

the section from Southernboy - very informative!

sshah

Thanks Guys - that's exactly what I was looking for!!!

theElio

Ah, this is a helpful guide I pick mine up on Tuesday and am in the same boat as you, sshah.

scl23

on the part about starting in 1st gear, I used to make the mistake of having revved upto as high as 3k without being fully engaged, now I engage from 1k-1500 rpm area and speed up to about 5-7 mph and then change to 2nd gear. I don't like to go over 3-4k rpm in 1st.

scl23

One more questions about shifting from 1 to 2 to 3 and on. How slowly or quickly should I release the clutch as I upshift? I've been doing it somewhat slowly to minimize the jerk and trying to make it as smoothly as possible. I usually take about a second to release the clutch. I also noticed that if I try to shift too quickly from 1 to 2, it catches a little bit. Is that normal?

afici0nad0

when your clutch bites from 1-2 and you feel the jerk, it's b/c you're stepping off the clutch a little too early.

is it normal? ya, i guess it's normal to experience that when you let off of the clutch a little too soon. is it something you want to feel? ease off of the clutch a little gentler, and it'll be cool.

afici0nad0

FYI...

How To Heel and Toe Downshift

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/how...2/article.html

slats

I always use engine braking to slow down, unless I need to slow down really fast and then just throw it in neutral and stand on the brakes! Anyway, save your brakes and downshift.

As far as coming from stops, low is better in general. However, if you want a quicker launch then it is perfectly ok to rev higher.

Always clutch all the way.

NEVER use the clutch to hold your place on a hill, unless you want to burn it up.

As far as shifting, it sounds like you are getting the hang of it. Letting the clutch out slow gives to synchros time to do their thing and will make your shifts smoother. When you are in a hurry, shifting faster will help you accelerate quicker and give you firmer, more sporty shifts.

Hope this helps!

matelot

I have a problem with that - adding throttle while downshifting - dont understand it.
Doesn't make sense to me : adding throttle while trying to slow down ?!?!
anyone clarify this for me ?

SWRT

The problem with information on the internet is most of it is second hand, and at least half of that is just plain wrong.


Does downshifting increase clutch wear?: That depends if you're rev matching or not. If you are not rev matching then yes, you are wearing your clutch significantly more than normal. If you are properly rev matching then you will not wear your clutch any noticable amount.

Engine RPMs at engagement: Your clutch wears most when pressure and slip are high. Luckily high pressure reduces slip, so unless you're riding your clutch its hard to royally screw it up. In theory yes you want to engage it at the lowest RPMs posible, but that doesn't usually make for the smoothest take off. A technique I have been using is to blip the throttle slightly, then as the revs fall begin to release the clutch. When you feel it grab, start adding throttle and finish up releasing the clutch. If you're getting a funny smell, you're slipping it too much.

Do I have to push my clutch in all the way to shift?: No you don't. You really only need to use about the top 1/3rd of the pedal travel. If you're pushing it down all the way its a lot harder to feel the engagement point. When you're learning you'll want to push further, but as you get the hang of it you're learn where the engagement point is... and thats as far as you need to go.

Hill Starts: Use your e-brake as others recommend when learning, but once you've got the hang of it you should be able to start with out rolling backwards just using the clutch.


Other tips:
-Practice rev matching before heel toe.
-Don't bother trying to learn the 'double cluching' technique. Modern cars have synchro's they don't need to be double clutched. Its a technique used for cars with dog boxes (no synchros) which uninformed people seem to use as a measure of how good of a driver they may be.
-Don't drive with your hand resting on the shifter, you can wear the nylon inserts on your shifter forks prematurely
-Always listen to your shifts when you're learning. The TSX is a very quite car, this makes it much harder to hear the engine and time your shifts.



-SWRT

sauceman

Good Post.

hong615

That's some really informative points... I am learning to drive a MT now...

A question though: regarding not using the clutch... I normally just use the clutch for parking... especially backup parking... since there isn't really enough length to get engaged into a gear... is that wrong? I am a little confused...

thanks...

ClutchPerformer

Downshift >> RPMs go up.

sauceman

Exactly, it's called rev-matching.

People do this to make downshifts smoother and easier on the clutch. It also serves for quicker braking in race conditions, as it's part of the basics of heel-toeing.

ClutchPerformer

Always press the pedal all the way down on EVERY SHIFT.

Your friends will thank you when you drive their cars (with different engagement points).

Your friend is basically right because mechanically it doesn't really matter once you're fully disengaged, but it's an extremely extremely bad habit to get into. Enjoy!

sshah

SWRT - Nice Info

ClutchPerformer - Same

Thanks - This board is very helpful!!
The Accord board I was on before was pretty evil - they would give anybody a beat down if you asked a "simple" question.

ClutchPerformer

We're nice... most of the time.

GreenMonster

There's a forum dedicated to manuals:

http://www.standardshift.com/forum/

Shawn S from the 2nd gen CL forum gets credit for the link...
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171333

sshah

Wow - nice find!!

slats

Ok, now I have a question to throw out there. I had an 88 Accord and always matched revs and got really good at it because I could hear the engine. My downshifts were smoother than most autos. But now I just bought an 05 Accord (I know, I don't belong here!!) and it is harder to match revs just right. The engine is a lot quieter and the throttle response a lot better, so I often rev a little too high or too low (+ or - 250 rpms). Anyway, is it better to under-rev or over-rev? Just going by the feel of it, I would guess it is better to under-rev since most people don't match revs at all. What do you guys think?

Slats

sauceman

Good question. I don't know. But I figure with practice you'll get the feel better and better.

psteng19

iTimmy

Dare I ask what your reasoning for that is? Its a honda, as soon as its warmed up feel free to rev the crap out of it, the way honda's produce power its probably producing less wear(to the engine) at 6k then it as at 2k under load. I am not saying dump the clutch at 6k, your starting right, but there is no reason to shift at a lower RPM then you would in any other gear.

slats

Very true that Honda's are "rev-happy" engines, but I too don't wind out the gears very far. Just seems like it would wear out quicker, but I may be wrong.

raynord

I disagree with not using the handbrake on a hill start. You should use the handbrake. You don't want to roll back if pointing uphill.
It is better to let the clutch out till you feel the car start to tug and then release the handbrake. The car will pull away nicely.
I grew up in England where 99% of drivers drive MT's. Part of the driving test is a hill start and if the car rolls back even a little it is instant failure.
I have always driven a MT and my last car (Integra) had 203K miles on the OEM clutch. As long as you're not leaving the clutch at biting point for too long before releasing the brake you shouldn't have any wear problems.

NightShredder

I agree except for 1st gear. The first gear in a MT should only really be used to get the wheels spinning and then right to 2nd.

Sometimes in snow I even start in 2nd instead of 1st to get started because 1st is to much power on the slick surface.

Just my after 14 years driving a MT. BTW I learned to drive a MT in NYC. Imagine the fear I put in my dad going through NYC traffic learning to drive a MT.

scl23

I've been rev-matching much better now and I can usually drop the hammer and still have a smooth shift from 1 to 2. The key for me was waiting a little after letting up on the gas to disengage the clutch, shift, engage, in one fast motion. This allowed the about 800-900 rpms to drop (depending on the speed I was in 1st, but I usually shift from 1st to 2nd around 3000-3500 rpms, roughly 6-8 mph). The key really is in rev-matching, everything from downshifting to upshifting w/o using the clutch too much to "smooth out" the shift. If all of us newbies knew exactly where the rev-matching points are, we'd all be great manual drivers from day 1.

The approximate (higher the rpm at the lower gear, the greater the rpm difference is between the lower / higher gear) rpm difference around 3000-3500 where I usually shift during normal driving was:

1-2: 800 rpm
2-3: 700 rpm
3-4: 550 rpm
4-5: 500 rpm
5-6: 500 rpm

I noticed that if I wait slightly between letting the gas pedal go and pushing in the clutch, I can time it almost exactly so that the rpm drops the amount needed for a smooth shift w/o using the clutch as the mediator between the engine speed and tire speed.

iTimmy

My question still stands, what's the problem with running at a high RPM in 1st? I drive roughly 30 different cars a day and have for the last 10+ years of my life- for what ever that's worth...

Starting in second gear is a good idea in snow, in fact some cars have a "snow" button on automatics, which is either a 2nd or 3rd gear start.

What is the difference of running at 6k RPM's in 1st vs. 6k RPM's in any other gear? What are you damaging that you wouldn't damage in any other gear?? The answer is nothing, its an old school urban myth from the days of 3 speed automatics, you let 'er get out of first then you can gun it. If the car is warmed up you are doing NO damage by running at a higher RPM in first then you would be in any other gear. I am not saying cruise at 6k RPM's in 1st gear, but if your accelerating rapidly, your foots not on the clutch and you aren't experiencing any wheel spin- then rev the biatch!

scl23

My guess would be that the first gear at such high rpms would have higher wear. It's a lot of torque on first gear at such high rpms. And unless you are racing, there's really no reason to be in high rpms on first gear. Under normal driving conditions, I don't see why you would need to be past 3500 rpm in first.

jpt

Your transmission can handle the torque your engine puts on it just fine. In fact there is not significantly more torque on any component in a given gear at 6k rpm than at 3k (look at our torque curve on a dyno chart). POWER goes up because power = torque * frequency -- but that is not relevant at all.

As for reasons for revving over 3500 rpm, how about accelerating faster? I always shift at redline (twice) when leaving tollbooths.

initialtsl

hi, i wanna learn. i know NOTHING! i have one question. how do u start the car of a manual and turn it off? i heard that u like press clutch or something. can someone explain to me please?

rugbybrado

why dont you go ask your dad.


Hey can someone tell me how to drive a car? I know nothing.

afici0nad0

yes. press and hold down clutch while you start the ignition.

shabaaz

Another is useful tip is to never ride the clutch ( resting your foot on the clutch as you drive). Even slight pressure on the pedal causes the clutch to slip and over time the build up of heat will destroy the clutch.

One member here learned the hard way and had his clutch completely die. His car wouldn't even move at all with the car in gear and the clutch pedal released. His car was brand new and had under 10K miles. Acura warranty did not cover the failure and he had to pay something like $1600 to fix everything. It was his first MT car and I guess nobody ever told him not to rest his foot on the clutch. Hard way to learn...I feel sorry for the guy.

Here is a link to the thread...tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34698

shabaaz

woops screwed up the link

CLICK HERE

n1ke5h

^That was me...but i dont think it was from resting my foot on the clutch. Now that I look back at all the stupid stuff i did with my car, like pushing the clutch in while not changing gears and still accelerating because i thought it would accelerate faster, or always holding in my clutch whenever stopped, etc...

At least now I'm extra careful about how I drive and I have a racing clutch and flywheel setup which by the way takes some time getting used to, but is AMAZING.

BoxedUp

Can't agree with you more and you just proved your own point!

No two clutches have the same pedal travel. This is a very generalized statement.

I would almost agree with this, but it's easier to have the same reference point every time you shift, like the floor, than try to hit the same point in space all the time. The times you hit it dead on would be great, but if you're a little short, it won't sound pretty.
Just my

psteng19

Did someone teach you how to drive stick or did you learn on your own and wing it?
If the latter, I suggest you have someone who really knows how to drive a manual sit next to you while you drive and monitor your habits.
Aside from resting your foot on the clutch pedal, you may be doing other things like slipping/riding the clutch, not rev matching, etc.

"pushing the clutch in while not changing gears and still accelerating"

Not sure I understand this. The only way you can still accelerate while pushing the clutch pedal in is if you're going downhill or someone pushing you from the back.
Regardless, pressing down on the clutch pedal doesn't harm the clutch at all. It just puts a little extra stress on the release bearing.