Zephrem

Update: The MM came on saying "Service Due Soon" at about 4100 miles with designated oil life of 15%. I'm now just shy of 4500, and I now have the "Service Due Now" with an oil life of 5%.

I'm not surprised at the mileage because I drive on short trips and I use Vtec. It is unfortunate, however, that the MM comes on every time you turn on the car after you hit 15% of oil life, with the small yellow "i" circle never turning off. That is annoying.

joerockt

See title.

Reach

MID for me. Did my first change at 30 miles past 0%. I'm at 30% on my second oil and will continue to use the MID unless the oil gets too dark too soon.

Tsx536

So the MID is accurate?
Saw that on my loaner and it seems like a cool feature!

DC_TSX

just changed at 10% on the MID. I had almost 4700 miles. I noticed a little extra pickup as well and it felt like the car was running smoother after getting that original oil out of there.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

First oil change at 3758 miles. The MID had about 10% on it.

I think the MID is pretty reliable as a source for determining the oil life.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Oh joe...what would we do without you?

ninjamyst

Wow Reach...didn't you get your black MT only a month and a half ago? Already went through one oil change? You must be loving your car =)

SodaLuvr

SodaLuvr

Ahh....

All filters have an ADBV, if that's what he's referring to...

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Related threads merged for your convenience.

SodaLuvr

I meant most filters...(all filters for Hondas definitely)

joerockt

At your service when I can be

STL

IMO, that only show his ignorance.

What makes you so concerned about the filter. Have you had some bad experience related to one? Or have you opened one up with 5k+ miles and didn't like what you saw?

You are entitled to your opinion, but if you cynicism towards Honda/Acura relabilty doesn't have any basis in fact then it's nothing more tha wild speculation. I myself haven't seen any evidence on Hondas/Acuras that backs up your speculation. Being that the company's reputation was built on relability, I seriously doubt they would risk such a stunt.

STL

I agree...it was the "other guy" who was trying to argue the need for a special filter because it had more filter material.

STL

I think you mean the MM (Maintenance Minder) which is displayed on the MID (Multi Info Display). IMO, the jury is still out on it. Personally, I have my doubts because I've read some rather conflicting information when it comes to MM notifications.

STL

Do you know exactly what that data is being used by MM? Of course not! Yes, the computer can keep track of all that, but it really comes down to HOW the data is being used. If this MM thing is being overly conservative (which the dealers would absolutely LOVE) then maybe it's not really the best thing to follow. Then again, maybe it is spot-on accurate and is a great thing -- but without knowing HOW the data it's collecting is being used no one can really say for sure!

(Are you a service manager or something? If not, you sure sound like one.)

I live in a city, yet I drive 20 miles to work with a substantional porition of that being fast moving highway -- and based on all the other people I see in the mornings/evenings I'm not alone. What is with this talk about "normal" being defined in the 50s, and even if it was what's that have to due with the price of tea in China?
According Acrua:
Follow the "severe" schedule only if you drive in one or more of these conditions most of the time:
* Trips of less than 5 miles
* Extremely hot weather (over 90 degrees F)
* Extensive idling or stop-and-go driving
* Trips of less than 10 in freezing weather
* Trailer towing, car-top carrier, or mountain driving
* Muddy, dusty, or de-iced road
Following that, I doubt 90% of Honda/Acura owners truly fall in this severe category.

joerockt

It says you only have to meet ONE of those conditions.

Trips of less then 5 miles - Besides people driving long distance to their job, most drive in town or shop in town. I dont usually drive long distance to do small errands on the weekends. Im sure most people dont
Extremely hot weather- I would say thats at least 75% during the summer.
Stop and go - Any major city has rush hour(s) so most drivers are in stop and go.
Freezing weather - Most of the north during the Winter.

I dont think 90% is very far off at all...

bradykp

i didnt say honda/acura in particular, just companies in general. the mechanic is not ignorant, just likes to have clean oil in his car. i'm sure he knows more about cars than most of us do, seeing as though he's been working on them every day for 30 years. and he's a good mechanic, not a rip off artist. so don't just assume he's ignorant because he does something that you disagree with.

i just think the filter is more of an issue than the oil. you say you'll take it 7500 miles, i say 5,000. what difference does it make? i think that the filter needs to be replaced, so that i can have a new, more effective filter in place every 5,000 miles. i'm also concerned about replenishing the oil with new oil, to keep everything fairly fresh. i am not as concerned with this car as older cars, and it may be because i'm used to changing every 3k, but i just can't get out of that mind set yet. i didnt say it was right, i said it's what i feel comfortable with.


seeing as my family has run multiple cars well beyond 200,000 miles, i'll stick with what has been working.

bradykp

he was saying this had something additional. don't know enough about it. it's the napa "gold" filter. which i've read is good.

bradykp

how many honda/acuras are sold in NY/NJ/CT? Add on LA drivers, and San Diego drivers. Washing DC area, philly, and any other metro area, and even though he was pulling 90% out of his ass, i bet he's safe saying that a majority of drivers probably fall in severe. if you live in florida, it's often over 90f. arizona and new mexico and texas as well.

looks like a lot of areas, qualify for severe conditions.

SodaLuvr

Well...you better go find out for me...

And are you so certain that a "new" filter will be more efficient than one with 5000 miles on it? Think again....

joerockt

Explain yourself...

bradykp

do filters not deteriorate with use? i'm no auto expert, but for instance, i have to change my brita filter every 3 months, or it doesn't filter anything out of the water anymore, because it's accumulated so much stuff. i know oil filters are a bit more advanced than this, but please, enlighten the rest of us...what is the useful life of a filter? 5k? 10k? 20k? why change it at all?

STL

Yes, and it says most of the time -- not just every now and then.

A couple short trips on the weekend doesn't trump the five days I (like most people) drive 20 (or more) miles to work.

Most people are driving to the work in the morning and home in the evening -- and even if the high for the day is 90 something it's probably only the the 70s or 80s during the drives. So for most people it wouldn't be anywhere near 75% of their summer.

That really depends on the city, when, and exactly where you work. I live and work in the St. Louis area and don't see any stop-and-go on the highway unless their has been an incident (like a wreck, stalled car, etc.).

It's moot as long as your work commute is longer than 10 miles (and it's not stop-and-go traffic).

I guess we'll have to disagree then.

STL

I know, but your cyninal talk here seemed directed towards them (but admit not them alone).

If he thinks he needs to change the oil every 2-3k miles to keep a modern engine running properly, then yes he is ignorant. I am good friends with a mechanic, but he doesn't have that "old school" mentality. I never implied he was a trying to rip anyone off. Numerous studies (and real-world experiences) have shown 3k oil changes aren't really needed.

I was only trying to figure out where you came up with that number. I used the 7500 number for my 95 Civic because that's what the manufacturer said (via the owner's manual) -- I think they would know their cars better than anyone else.

That proves that 3k mile isn't too long to go between oil changes -- but it doesn't prove that as long as you can safely go. I've seen (and run) several Honda/Toyotas to some very high mileage and ages -- and they went substantially longer (than 3k miles) between oil changes.

STL

I never said only 10% would qualify for severe, but at the same time I don't believe that 90% people would either. I do admit that a substantial percentage of people would fall into the severe category though.

joerockt

lol, ok so say 85%? Splitting a lot of hairs here...

bradykp

i'm not saying you're wrong either with 7,500, i'm just pointing out that it's hard to change the mentality of the old world, and switch to such a large number of miles.

and he doesn't think he needs to change 2-3k to keep it running properly, he just PREFERS to have clean oil in all the time. and there's nothing wrong necessarily with old school mentality, as it has always worked. it's an item that can be debated forever, because there's all kinds of cases of cars going long. but the bottom line is, you can't hurt your car by overmaintenence, but you can by not doing enough, so i'd rather be on the side of caution than not.

STL

Nope, more like 50-60%. If the difference between that and 90% is just splitting hairs then I guess we found something else to disagree on.

STL

If he really believes he doesn't need to change the oil so frequenetly to keep it running properly then why does he bother? To a rational person "just to keep it clean" doesn't seem like a sane answer. So does the guy change his brake pads every 5k miles too? Does he change his brake fluid, coolant, and power steering fluid every 6 months too? You'd think he want to keep all those other fluids clean too. LOL

I agree overmaintenance can't really hurt your car, but what gets me is it just that he's taking it to such an extreme. Heck, if he's using a synthetic engine oil he should considering selling his "used" oil. He could probably find someone buy since it's been so lightly used. I knew a guy who changed the Mobil1 oil in his S2k (or maybe it was an ITR -- either way it wasn't a daily driver) every year so it only had like 3-4k miles, and he gave it to a farmer to use in tractors -- or so he thought. It turns out the farmer was using the oil in his Volvo stationwagon (with over 100k miles) and had been doing that for many years without any issues. I personally wouldn't do such a thing, but I bet you can find several who would.

SodaLuvr

An oil filter is designed for the recommended OEM drain interval, plus an adequate margin of error. A well-built, well designed filter will not disintegrate even when run beyond the OEM drain interval, provided that the engine is clean and in good condition. Most good filters can last 10,000 miles without cloggage or disintegration problems.

A filter certainly will clog eventually. However, as a filter "ages," its efficiency will increase. A filter with 5000 miles will certainly be more efficient than one with 500 miles on it. Air filters behaves similarly...they work much more efficiently after they become loaded with a small amount of dirt to slightly reduce the air flow. Thus, the last 30% of a filter's life will go by much quicker than the first 30% of its life...as the element is more efficient and will "plug" much faster.

With that said, some higher efficiency filters will not last as long as some lower efficiency filters as they are more efficient. If two identical filters have the same dirt holding capacity, and one is more efficient than the other, the more efficient one will have a much shorter life.

Hope this answers your question...or keeps you hanging...

SidewinderTL

No, I'm an Electrical engineer with a lot of friends in the car industry. The point of what they can use, and what they might is more along the lines of... they have access to the information, programming the software is easy enough, so they likely use the top few variables that they believe influence the oil life the most. i.e. mileage, cold/hot starts, and likely time on the engine . The other point is... they don't just use mileage... and whatever they do use, likely have more merit that mileage alone.


:[/QUOTE]

I think that a lot of the people in this forum might fall into it. Again like someone else mentioned, it is one of those cartagoies not all of them. Also if it seems like most people are being asked to change it every 5000 miles, then that might put them closer to the severe catagory.

SidewinderTL

Also just FYI Brita filters are activated charcole filters which is different than air/oil filters.

There is a chemical reaction happneing that take certain chemicals out of the water, and captuer it with the carbon. eventually there isn't enough carbon left to make this reaction happen.

The real life of an oil filter... who knows like someone mentioned we can start opening them up and see... but I still think they should last at least as long as the oil, and most likely longer.

STL

I'm also an EE, but I'm in the aerospace industry. I agree that whatever they use has the potential to have (much) more merit than mileage alone, but I'm not yet convineced Honda/Acura MM is a good application of the technology.

I agree that a fair porition of the people here probably need to follow the severe schedule -- I just thought saying 90% was a hyperbole. What doesn't make sense is the person who admitibly only drives around the city and their MM says their first oil change should be at 8k miles -- then you have other people who drive mostly (open) highway miles and their MM suggests the oil change at just 5k miles. That's what makes me wonder if the MM system has a flaw and/or there is some dealer setting (that we don't yet know about).

bradykp

with the amount of the population that's located around metro areas such as nyc, boston, phila, etc etc (sorry for the northeast bias), i find it hard to believe that it's not much more than 60%. and then add the population that drives in freezing cold for 4-6 months (entire northeast, washington, montana, colorado, etc etc). and add to that hot summers (entire south, california, etc), we pretty much just covered the entire country.

who's not driving in severe conditions?

bradykp

you think it's extreme, but many many people change every 3,000 miles. let it go, you disagree, i get it, and he disagrees with you. doesn't mean he is not sane.

bradykp

sounds like a good answer. so do people change their filter every 10,000 miles? not really, it's just easier to change with the oil changes.

bradykp

i agree, i was just trying to make a point, that it has some sort of useful life, so what is it, and what do we follow?

STL

Just because one lives in around a metro area doesn't automatically mean they must have a "severe" commute. I'm a prime example.

That's entirely moot if they drive more than 10 miles -- reread the conditions.

In many of the locals it's not over 90deg (near as often as you might think) when most people are actually driving to/from work.