SodaLuvr

2004 TSX, 4750 mi. on oil, 25000 on unit. Mostly highway, with lots of stop-n-go. Analysis by Butler CAT.

4 quarts Havoline SM 5w-20, 1 quart RL 5w-20.

Wear Metals:
Al, 4ppm
Cr, 0ppm
Fe, 6ppm
Cu, 1ppm
Pb, 1ppm
Sn, 3ppm

Oil Adds:
Mo, 430ppm
B, 16ppm
P, 837ppm
Zn, 934ppm
Ca, 1951ppm
Mg, 41ppm

Si, 4ppm
K, 0ppm
Na, 6ppm

Viscosity @100C, 8.5cst=yes, a solid 20wt.

Glycol, Water, and Fuel all read negative.

No FTIR because this was a homebrew and the machine cannot be calibrated correctly unless a virgin sample was submitted.

Michael

iamhomin

Okay, someone translate that to english for me.

SodaLuvr

My Comments:
Who says a 5w-20 can't do the job well?

I'll post the earlier 5w-30 UOAs later, they all sheared down into the mid 7cst range.

Thus, this proves that STABLE viscosity is the key, NOT thicker.

All of the wear metals appear excellent....the tin puzzles me, but I guess its a metal used in one the wearing parts in this engine.

Surprising that the addition of one quart RL 5w-20 had little to no effect on the viscosity, virgin 5w-20 Havoline SM starts out at 8.3, so RL 5w-20 must start out around 8.8??

Si, is very low, considering that RL uses some as an anti-foam agent. The Na you see here is from Redline, which uses a trace of it as an additive.

Feel free to ask any questions,
Michael

BlackTSXer

WHAT?!

artmcd88

You know I dont speak spanish!

biker

Someone needs to post average or normal numbers for all the categories and also put these numbers into context - otherwise it's all Greek.

SodaLuvr

Universal Avgs. are worthless...all wear metals depend on the driving conditions, oil used, driving habits, etc...

Typically, Al is supposed to be 1/3 of Fe, Fe is 1-2ppm/1,000 mi, and Pb should be 1-2ppm at most in a well broken-in engine.

Let's stick with that first.

Michael

sauceman

Blah. I'm not even interested in wasting my time trying to understand what it means.

SodaLuvr

Sauceman,
This car got better fuel economy with 5w-20.

And WITHOUT compromising wear.

Michael

sauceman

Now you're talking.

Carlos8542222

Sauceman, what is your current mileage? I notice that you don't list it in your postings anymore? I always looked forward to seeing your TSX mileage.

Thanks

sauceman

My signature doesn't come on automaticaly anymore.

Here it is:

Savio

que?

sauceman

Bought some 5W20. Let's see it happen.

SodaLuvr

What brand sauceman?

Syn, Blend, or Dino? (Actually slightly inaccurate as most 5w-20 oils are blends to a degree in order to meet specs)

Are you going to analyze it?

Michael

SodaLuvr

BTW, you lucky Canadian should be running the dirt cheap Esso XD3 0w-30 full syn.

All of the USA people are jealous as you folks can get a very robust, full syn oil for dirt cheap.

Michael

curls

Why (non-uber-technically) is this such a good oil? I've never liked anything Esso-branded (personal preference), but is it THAT good that its well worth getting over Mobil-1 full synthetic?

~Eric

sauceman

Looks like it's Pennzoil Dino oil.

I really have not a clue where I could get it analysed, and even if I did, I wouldn't have a clue of what it would mean. Nah, I'm mostly interested to see if and by how much mileage would improve.

Worth a shot, 5W20 was priced same as 5W30 at Wal Mart.

matelot

you have a TSX too ?

SodaLuvr

Nope...this belonged to someone on BITOG...which is why 5w-20 was used....(we like to experiment)

Michael

gogozy

i tried GC, i can feel it's on thick side. so Esso XD-3 is too thick.

SodaLuvr

gogozy,
The GC has turned back excellent UOAs on the Honda 2.4 engine...yes it is a borderline 30/40wt, but it does the job very well. In addition, its 0w-XX rating may help with flow in cold temps in Toronto, and may actually help fuel efficiency in the winter because of the better flow.

However, with such excellent results with a 5w-20, I'm hesitant to use anything thicker than a xW-20 in a TSX app....though keep in mind, that it is not recommended by Honda.

I'm especially interested in seeing Synergyn 3w-30 or 0w-20, as well as Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20 in this application.

Michael

ForceSHO

Im assuming RL is red line ? I'm just wondering where the MO is coming from.. Redline or the Havoline.. Its a nice number.. I think M1 is only 1/4 of that amount...

gogozy

may give xw-20 a try next year, currently has 8L of GC left, but i am using M1 5w30 and can feel TSX is happier... another thing is i believe all Honda engine love a bit thiner and lots of Moly and there isn't any in GC..

matelot

Michael Wan is the like Dr Henry Lee of motor oil, lol

SodaLuvr

gogozy,
You're overlooking the fact that it is NOT a single ingredient that is important in an oil, but instead it is the OVERALL chemistry that is important.

FORCESHO, the MO is coming from BOTH the Havoline and Redline (RL). My Virgin Oil Analysis of Havoline 5w-20 SM showed >400ppm of Moly.

Michael

Ozzman

I haven't understood any of this, but I must admit that for some reason I got excited when I read "Virgin Oil".

Motohip

You lost your TSX privileges with that post, hand over your keys...

yuhoo22

^^^ lol....

bob shiftright

Soooooooo... I have more calcium in my old Volvo?

I guess it means that the TSX is going to be more prone to osteoporosis when it gets older? I mean this is all interesting but the two cars don't seem to produce much different results, even after the Volvo has done the equivalent of being driven around the globe more than six times. BTW, the Volvo still doesn't use any oil between routine oil changes. Maybe this synthetic stuff really works?

SodaLuvr

Calcium (Ca), is a detergent and boosts the TBN. Everything looks great for a high mileage Volvo.

Try running dino in this Volvo, and you'll watch that viscosity drop since the turbo will "kill" the oil.

Note that your flashpoint could use some improvement, same with the insolubles. Ideally, the insolubles should be at 0.3-0.4% for a short 5K run, and you'd want to have the Flashpoint >400F.

Normally, using FP60 by Lube Control will drop the insolubles on a newer car, but I suspect that your problem here is simply from buildup in the engine. Running two treatments of Auto-RX with a 15w-40 conventional oil, then resampling again at 5000 miles with Mobil 1 10w-30 (using FP60 at every fill-up at the same time) should drop the insolubles to that level). Flashpoint can be helped by using LC20 at 1 oz/qt, then 1oz/1,000 miles.

Michael

ForceSHO

Sorry to bring this from the dead.. local walmart finally has the Havoline SM.. they had a bunch of SL before and I was like, its not the same.. haha

just curious if you think running with Moly is better than using M1 with less ?

Bill Hook

Bronze bearings, perhaps?

SodaLuvr

Dunno Bill....

Not necessairly, you're comparing apples to oranges here. It really depends on how well the oil will perform. More Moly DOES NOT necessairly mean better, but Havoline just happens to have lots of Moly yet perform well.

MW

adc

I have done 6 or 7 Used oil analysis and they are posted on the Oil Board. This engine is amazing in terms of good wear numbers. My son's TSX has 70+ K miles on the clock. Last one it did with Penzoil Platinum are about the same as the posted one (but with 8200 miles).

I am not too keen to switch to the 20Wt. as the fuel economy will only be about .5 mpg more and it might be best to stick with Honda's rec. Having said that..this engine is very hard on oil and a 30 wt. will be chewed down to a 20 wt in 2,000 miles anyway.

My 01 Sentra SE got no increase in mileage with 20 wt and the wear was worse.

adc

Their current brew appears to be less robust and doesn't give as good of results as the old Havoline. New Havoline "Deposit Shield" FTL.

MJB_CHI

Impressive metal wear numbers for this K24A2 engine. Your Moly reading is astronomical at 430, that is almost definately helping to keep the metal wear down to a minimum. Assuming the TBN is still good, you could drive 5K more miles on this oil.

adc

Not necessarily. RedLine had 500+ Moly and German Castrol has zero. GC generally puts up better wear numbers than RedLine.

The intent of Moly is a "last ditch" lubrication when the normal boundary lubrication fails. Moly can be effective in protecting the bearings on startup or under excessive bearing loads. Thats why RedLine uses a lot of Moly...to protect in abnormal high load Racing conditions. Most oils have around 50 to 100 ppm Moly. And the latest version of Havoline with "Deposit Shield" has lower moly numbers than the old versions.

gogozy

you mean K24A2 is hard on oil? can it be the timming chain? maybe i shall stick with GC...

dnd2984

iTrader: (6)

So there is nothing wrong with mixing motor oil?

How about 4 qts of Val synpower and 1 of Royal Purple sound