3.5RL dude

Ive got a 99 RL w 170k and while in the drive thru at bk the engine started to shake.
took it to autozone and they said cyl 1 misfire.
ok pulled #1 coil put a sparkplug in and tested good...
pulled plug... found gapped at 80 due to age
got all new bosch dbl platinum plugs.. put in and no change.
unplugged each coil while running and all but #1 made it run worse.
ok so got out the stethoscope and listed for each injector clicking. all clicking
so I decided to remove clean and rebuild each injector. all were flowing fine and reinstalled.
still NO change.
back to autozone.. code reader stated misfire again in #2 #1 #3 and any cyl misfire.
but their computer said to replace egr. yah right.....bs
code they gave me for the misfire was P1202 and similar.... all these are fuel inj circ electrical malfunction codes
I know for certain all are flowing well and clicking.

someone mentioned timing belt stretched or skipped. could that cause this code?
how can i check timing on these engines?
i believe the previous owner changed the belt and im due for another 30k
any other suggestions?
what sensor controls injector timing?

3.5RL dude

can anyone help?
73 views and no replies.
i cant be the only one with engine problems?

Babafats

It wont be the timing belt the egr passages might beed cleaninf the only way to properly clean it is to remove the intake manifold disassemble and clean. The egr valve almost NEVER goes on these cars
Check the map sensor and all the vaccum lines

3.5RL dude

car is somewhat fixed.. mechanic charged me $350 said it was an injector and replaced one... but i tested and rebuilt every injector prior to taking it to him. Aslo the one he gave me back.... works perfectly.
i bet it was something else,,, he put in an injector....car still ran like crap then found the real issue and still charged me for the unneeded injector.
the car still idles rough but once i accelerate issue is gone.

as far as the egr port... that can be cleaned from behind the manifold once you remove the rear plate w like 6 bolts. in used a drill bit and just poked at it till i scraped off as much crusty stuff from the port. That was done on my previous 98RL w like 200k+

Babafats

if you clean it by removing it you will be surprised at the gunk which still restricts the passages in there

Calvin Ming

Along with cleaning the EGR, I replaced all the vacume lines especially the ones behind the motor. My problem was solved.

whitetiger5

I too had an issue that was felt at idle; in particular when in drive and stopped. Still present with idle in park but in drive the engine is more "connected" to the drivetrain/chassis so it was felt more.

I replaced plugs and coils; made sure to keep the old coils and I'm glad I did. One of the brand new coils had an issue where it would intermittently cause a "stumble" at idle but once the car got going it was fine.

Replaced it with one of my old coils ran smooth once more and sent the new coil back to rockauto for replacement.

It's pretty difficult to confirm operation of ignition coils without either a spare working replacement or an expensive inductive tool.

3.5RL dude

So problem continues... over $500 spent and still no better.
Replaced all plugs, all inj tested and rebuilt, all coils tested good
also played musical coils w a good spare but....no luck
all sorts of different codes come and go.....
fuel system failure
ignition misfire
Random misfire
low efficient cat (replaced o2 behind cat but code still there)
replaced fuel filter also
Dealer said it was a bad coil.. but his method to test was BS.
he pulled a coil, put a plug in it, ran the car and it arced to ground (he didnt ground spark plug)
of course the coil will ark to the nearest ground... duh
he wanted me to replace $5000 in parts.. idiot w no clue .... car it valued at half that.

any thoughts..... bad sensor???

Babafats

did you check the air temp sensor and the coolant temp sensor if they are out of range the engine will run rich the air temp sensor is behind the intake manifold coolant temps sens is on the front i think this is not the sending unit to the temp gauge
I had a prob with my air temp sensor -hard start when eng warm and rich running= misfire check all the vaccum hoses on a car this old some may be cracked

Babafats

or if not its the pcm see if you can find a known good one to switch and se if that corrects it

Babafats

https:///threads/diy-egr-and-intake-...leaning.68465/

3.5RL dude

its not giving me any egr codes.. ive been through that w another RL in the past. this is way different
i dont have a spare pcm for a 99.. cheapest one on ebay is like $65.... Ive already wasted $700+ w experiments.
even the dealer couldnt pin point the issue. said to replace everything...at $5500 what an idiot

Babafats

try the air temp sensor change then its abt 60 from pepboys when the engine is cold overnight cold- does it misfire the same way?

Babafats

Try this as well
get a blue driver- amadon- it plugs into your odb2 port under the ashtray and gives you eng comp info on an app you download'
You will be looking at the fuel trims go to u tube and look for schrodingers- box fuel trims his is the best explanation out there learn about how to interpret them as blue driver will give you long and short term fuel trims. you could have a bad o2 sensor the car has 3
then diagnose yours as once the eng is misfiring the fuel trims will be affected this worked for me as it told me i had a vaccum leak the map sensor plastic connecter was cracked

3.5RL dude

HELP
codes keep changing
first said misfire cyl2
then misfire cyl 1,3,4,5,6
then random misfire
then fuel system failure

rebuilt all injectors.. tested good
checked all colis fire correctly
replaced all spark plugs. no change

dealer said #2 coil
replaced... still runs like crap

now says random misfire all cyl and EGR valve
removed valve checked all ok

now if the port is clogged, wouldnt that affect all cyl?
currently just #2 is affected.
i can unplug both coil and inj to #2 cyl and no change to how engine runs

Pair of TLs

Do you have moisture in your gas?
Tis the season...

3.5RL dude

2nd tank refilled.. new fuel filter also
problem seems to be caused by #2 cyl (read previous post)

Babafats

Try switching the no 2 plug with another one which is just to eliminate a plug problem although they're new.
then nxt step would be to get a compression tester and compare no 2cyl to the rest sb within a very small % of each other
Then you would have to check the ignition circut to that cyl

3.5RL dude

i did play musical coils, plugs and even injectors ... nothing changes
even pulled the ecu to check all connections... cant replace due to no "red" key to reprogram
compression is 175+

i remember this use to happen every time i washed the engine or a massive puddle... but for only a few hours... this has been months now
thinking bad connection,,, but where??????

Babafats

can you check the voltage values with a multimeter at the coil connector compare a good one with no 2 or it might me something mechanical with the valves if the elect values check out the car has hydraulic valve tappets perhaps on no 2 they are not cycling properly
is the injector firing if you listen thru a stethoscope

3.5RL dude

so yes all injectors are firing .. bench tested, cleaned, rebuilt and retested. all sprayed beautifully.
used stethoscope verified all firing installed
3rd time at a mechanic... now he says #2 injector needs replacing
few weeks ago he replaced #1 at a cost of $350
car ran for 2 days then all came back
old #1 injector he gave back to me bench tested perfectly.....
now says #2.......really?
so I put a spare in #2 myself
SUDDENLY car runs perfect again... go figure
Bench tested the old #2 inj and its working perfectly also.. WTF
must be a loose wire near that bank of injectors thats getting moved
there is a huge harness directly beside the rail.
I know 100% all injectors and coils are firing
that harness must be tripping another sensor somewhere
NO cel NO codes at all since reset yesterday. drove it several times today w no issues.

last cel gave several new codes along w 2 old ones before this repair
P0118 Eng coolant temp high input ... (all normal on gauge) new code
P1203 cyl#3 misfire (new code) was #2 last week
P0300 Random misfire .. repeated old code
P1399 misfire any cyl.... repeated old code

well lest see how long it will behave.

Babafats

ok you have narrowed it down to an electrical problem you should fix it as it will surface when you least need it
run to operating temp then jiggle the harness and try to replicate the problem start at the connectors as you said moisture causes it
this will take time but its going to come back as sure as god made little apples here's a story for you
I had a complete shutdown on the highway 5 wks ago everything dead , dead as can be- but the hazards were working- luckily I had just joined the hiway and was passing through 70mph in the right lane, the next exit was near ,within 2 miles so I coasted down the hway on the shoulder, thought I could get off but I stopped just where the ramp began, a verry strange feeling indeed. You can actually hear the wind and traffic noise. In waiting for the tow truck I had time to think and remembered that 4 times before over the course of 5 or so hours that same day I had gotten a misfire as I was doing some running around So I got a flatbed home and sure enough the brake lights worked normally so I immediately went to the main 120 amp fuse and its blown apart I plugged a 60 amp fuse in and a bright red glow as its now night, and smoke comes from blow the underhood fusebox between the engine and fender. Brake lights and hazards are wired for safety if you look at the wiring diagram they do not run thru that main fuse I've seen that on most cars
So I pack up- and next day I find that the black /white line to the starter solenoid is completely worn thru and resting on the AC line 5 yrs ago i had had a mechanic troubleshoot a compressor issue and he did not secure the wires properly so it was rubbing on the ac line so over time the insulation wore thru the misfire I was getting was the electrical short, fixing the wire fixed the issue so electrical issues can escalate Think of what acura would charge for that 30 sec diagnosis....
.

Babafats

how many miles on the rl I would change the intake air and coolant temp sensors as a precaution

3.5RL dude

i just hit 170k .
where is the coolant temp sensor? not the one for the gauge.. that one works fine

ive jiggled every wire and pulled every plug but can not reproduce issue.
only code now is a po137 low voltage to o2 sensor. its a new sensor. reset but keeps coming back.
looked up code.. says it got down to 10v during idle.. My alternator sometimes will not charge at idle (below 1000 rpm) I watch it on a gauge.

so new issue today... turned key on... heard constant clicking without the engine being started yet.
found evap purge solenoid just clicking away w the engine off but key on,
then after 2 min tried to start engine and it would not then hesitated like it was flooded
flooding feeling went away. and as long as i dont sit w the key on before starting its ok.
gremlins!!

so it runs now.... just the o2 code and occasional alternator hiccup. alt seems to do this only when temps are below freezing

Babafats

so new issue today... turned key on... heard constant clicking without the engine being started yet// could be the starter try tapping it with a hammer they are a boitch to change but on YT I had that issue had to change the starter at around 180 or so

Babafats

If the eng hard starts when warm try flooring the throttle THEN cranking if it starts youll have a lot of black smoke which will damage the cat in the long run but it will be the intake air temp sensor it is a 17mm socket and its located between the rear of the intake manifold and the firewall has a 2 wir plug abt 50 or so from pepboys

Babafats

theres always a logical explanation you just haveta find it
when the iat sensor is out of range the computer thinks the engine is cold so the pcm will lengthen the injector pulse which will cause the flooding that may trigger the evap purge valve It wont hard start when the eng is cold because a cold eng needs more gas
the water temp sensor when bad will do this to a lesser extent

Babafats

how old is the alternator mine lasted 20 years and i changed it as a part of preventative maintenance it was still charging at 14 v do you get a batt light or one that flickers

Babafats

https://www.700r4transmissionhq.com/p0137-acura-rl/

chk this out your cat may be blocked too

Babafats

having the key on wont cause flooding as the pump only pressurises the system briefly when you turn the ign
on the injectors are closed when you crank the inj cycle starts
if you sit in a very quiet car an put the ign on you will hear the pump pulse under the rear seat briefly there is also a chk valve in the fuel line under the hood but theres an easy way to chk if thats bad you should have fuel pressure a few hrs after shutdown if you open the filter bolt

3.5RL dude

cats not blocked...
as stated only hard starts if i sit w the key on for over a min before i crank over.
the evap solenoid just clicks like mad until i start engine. why is it trying to purge??
alt is probably original. no lights. still charges above idle. I have a rebuild kit... its too cold right now and i have no garage to work in.

any way to test this air temp sensor? found listing at Orileys 23.99
i just hate being a parts replacer .. im upto $800 since this issue began

Babafats

you can test it if you have a multimeter but u have to remove it in a car that old its a lottery to keep it in as it may test good and breakdown under heat as the air in there gets very hot
Link to online manual
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/12...ra-3-5-Rl.html

Chk this yt channel out he has lots of rl vids

3.5RL dude

O2 code is gone ....but....

NEW code today.
PO118 Engine coolant temp sensor high voltage.

anyone know where it would be located on a 99 RL ?
I was told near the thermostat housing... havnt looked yet
i want to pull it to bench test it before i spend more money

thanks

3.5RL dude

so I found the sensor.... i think..... the one off the top hose by the manifold.

i pulled the sensor and bench tested it.
seems to work
i got about 3k ohms at room temp
then ran it under warm water and ohms dropped slowly
then ohms raised when i stopped water flow.

i rented a scan tool from autozone.. it shows stored codes and freeze frame but no live data
so i can not tell if ecu is getting the signal at all or its an intermittent failure.

stored code on freeze frame shows -40 deg at 800 rpm ... so an open circuit or is the sensor failing occasionally?

i reset code but it came back again after a few runs.

i need to find a scan tool w live data

Babafats

Ive seen lots of sensors test normal and fail , did you test the intake air sensor IAT the one behind the manifold Id be very sceptical about a 20 yr plus sensor which has triggered a code then tests normal FYI mine (IAT and water) did not trigger a code but the IAT was the fly in the ointment
I did not even bother to bench test it I hedged my bets and changed BOTH of them which solved the problem although I know it was the IAT sensor causing the rich when warm issue -hard start and misfire issue

those two sensors are very critical to the smooth running of the engine as they regulate injector pulse width
See if u can get to a scrapyard and pull the two if u can find an RL 86-04 there and swap then out one at a time and see if its corrected but you got a code so the thing failed Was your test within the ranges in the manual

Babafats

couls also be an open /shorted circut did u thoroughly check the wiring harness as yet

Babafats

remember theres 2 wat/temp sensors one feeds the gage its the other one u want the manual should show the correct one

3.5RL dude

I found the second coolant sensor it had 1 wire .. i assume that was for the gauge and the 2 wire for the ecu.
i also found a scan tool at oriles to borrow that showed live data. both IAT and ECT showed operational and temps were good.
i jiggled the ECT wires and temp fluctuated a little but not much .. 185 to 169..... but not -40 like the freeze frame data showed.

O2 code keeps coming back also (circuit failure) .....its a new unit

I wonder if the alternator not charging occasionally at idle is causing these faults.

Babafats

yes 2 wire is for the ecu
ok well the sensors must b good then if they test ok
which o2 sensor is new there are 3 of them; 1 on each exhaust manifold and one upstream of the cat I chgd all 3 of mine as one was dead, they wont cause a misfire if they are not firing. one of mine was flatlined thts how i knew it was bad. If the heater unit in them goes they will return a code.
the minus 40 might have been an anomaly of the sensor at that time. What was the intake air temp at the highest point?

If the alt stops charging the batt light will come on do u get that. If you put a multimeter on it at idle are u getting 13-14 v with evrything off
then put evrything on defogger, wipers on hi, hi beams lights whts the voltage drop

Babafats

no the alt not chging wont cause those faults as when there is no chg the eng runs off the batt