jbillakdsm

I've been posting in a couple of different threads about the TPMS problems I'm having with my CPO 09 RDX Tech. In short, the car has been in 7 times for the TPMS system shutting off for no reason.

I talked to Acura customer service this week and they launched a case for me and the district manager is supposed to be in touch with the dealership this week or weekend. When I asked about what Acura's stance is on a vehicle being a lemon, they immediately got defensive, but after explaining that I really like the vehicle and am just frustrated they told me that they will do everything possible to repair the vehicle and if they can't they will give me something of comparable value.

My question is what would you guys do if they can't fix it? After 7 attempts, I'm not really confident that it will magically get fixed.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

does the TPMS light come on the dash? meaning is there an annoying nanny on the dash exclaiming TPMS! TPMS! TPMS! TPMS!


if not, I would not worry about that petty shit. Just do like in the old days and monitor your own tire pressure with an actual tire pressure gauge.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

sounds almost like the pressure might just not be set high enough (i always set pressures like 2-3 psi above what the tire pressure placard calls for, then any weather variations does not turn it on


and personally i don't understand how it can be 7 times, the system is not all that complicated

Mr Marco

OP, Ignore this ^ !
a.) Your tire psi should be set according to the "Tire and Loading Information" sticker located on the piller inside the drivers door.
b.) Even though this is a saftey feature, your vehicle is too old to qualify as a lemon under Pennsylvania law.
c.) Keep taking the RDX back until they fix it. Ask them to replace everything that could be an issue. Every component! Every wire, every sensor, every computer, EVERYTHING! Until the problem goes away.
d.) If above doesn't work, trade it for an BMW X-5.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

or let's do this, get the actual tire "loading" chart from the tire manufacture, and see what it says, after weighing the actual vehicle weight per axle (more then likely the tire placard on the vehicle will be a little low, because car manufactures like to set it a little low for COMFORT, where tire manufactures look for maximum life/lowest heat produced; ie: maybe you should read up on the old ford exploder's tire recall, basically what happened is ford put too low of a pressure [for comfort] where firestone had recommended a higher pressure)

eg5

iTrader: (4)

do not Buy More Warranty.
this is what you should do. if incase your tpms is acting up, there will be codes present in the him and your tpms module, so ask them for a printed sheet of all tpms codes.
for your sake, i hope fix a flat substances has not been introduced in any of the tires. second for your sake have your tires aired at your local dealer or a discount tire center, if you dont own a personal air compressor. why you ask, any leak in a hose or unmaintained compressor filters will introduce water into the wheel assembly. this causes the sensor to read 58(default) or read blank. but guess what replaceing the tpms sensor on the side that reads blank or 58 will not do anything. you can replace it 50 times and itll still show 58 or blank after a couple of miles. water does funny things to the tpms sensor and causes false readings on sides that arent even affected. solution have all tires dismounted and inspect each tpms sensor for water or fix a flat residue. replace as needed.
and finally because of the cold weather conditions, your tpms sensor internal battery may be low. the only solution for this despite what the dealer might say is to replace the tpms sensor.
well hope this helps you. keep us updated

wspy

^^ Good to know!!

Mr Marco

Firestone/Ford has nothing to do with this discussion, stop adding unnecessary crap to this discussion, it's about TPMS!
There are a few of us on AZ who are gear-heads (friesm2000, you may be one of them, I don't know) If you have been on a track or worked in a shop you know what psi will give us the best results for our tire/vehicle. Otherwise, please use the specs on the door pillar.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

TPMS is also about tire pressure and the importance of having the correct tire pressure, which ford seem to be lacking a bit of in those tires (and didn't they come out with a new updated tire placard for it too)

and i am a AUTO Tech TYVM, so i know one or twos things then most normal people do
also with running higher pressures then on the rated placardd, WHY do i get better life out of my own personally tires (and regular customer's tires too), by getting them to wear almost completely flat across the tread by running slightly higher pressures


and personally on mine with lower pressures, the tires become too mushy for accurate steering wheel input

jbillakdsm

I know it's not a water issue because my compressor has multiple catch points along the line. I've also considered this and even depressurized it and found no water at the drain plug. I've also never put fix-a-flat in the wheels or had trouble with low pressure in a wheel.

My tire pressures are consistent and never near the low end of the recommended specs. The TPMS warning NEVER turns on when I first start up, only after driving about 30 miles will it shut off.

I had them read the codes and it keeps coming back with the same code. Driver's side front sensor is not working properly (despite rotating tires between it throwing the code).

They gave me a 2011 RDX Tech as a loaner till they figure it out (drive the shit out of my car and hope they can make it happen again). I personally don't like the external styling of the new RDX, but the interior is nicer than my 09 IMO. Hopefully something will come of this or they are going to be seeing this car till it hits 100K.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

IIRC there is an separate antenna PER wheel (so the sensors only have to transmit like 12" or so, more distance means more power needed to transmit a stronger signal, which means shorter battery life)
but anyhow it sounds like that driver front antenna is the one having the issue (since rotating the tires does not change the code; and i think by the vehicle have separate antennas for each wheel, means that it is able to see what position each sensor is actually at instead of just knowing it is on the car in one of the positions)

jbillakdsm

That makes sense and that's the first time anyone (including the dealer) has mentioned a receiving antenna.

jbillakdsm

I got a call from the dealer today stating that they couldn't get the TPMS light to come on today so they want to hold onto the car. I don't understand why reading the previous codes along with the service records of what has already been replaced wouldn't lead them down a certain path without trying to reproduce the code (along with putting a ton of miles on my vehicle for no reason).

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

just a matter of thinking of how the system is designed (and rotating kinda rules out the sensors themselves, since it is the same wheel position)

also this may be an extreme case, but maybe the wheel bearing or something is bad, and the distance between the sensor and antennas is too great at times (wobbleing wheel)(but as said it's a VERY long shot, especially if you take into consideration the suspension's travel)

more then likely by the way you previously made it sound the vehicle has to sit outside overnight for it too come on (or however you park at night)

as far as previous codes, they probably also don't want to replace parts unnecessarily either
BUT the TPMS should still have a live datastream of what the computer is actually seeing (mainly pressure, but depending on the system, and how advanced it is; temperature inside the tire; and battery possibly too of each sensor

then with a separate tool, they should also be able to activate the sensors and read them individually also, without even having to unlock or hook up to the car (so basically the sensor does not even need to be remotely close to the vehicle itself)

jbillakdsm

One of these days I'm going to get my hands on a wiring diagram for the RDX.

It's not that the vehicle has to sit overnight. I've driven around my town all day with no trouble then got on the highway and 30 miles later it shuts off. It happens when the weather is hot (90+) and cold (10F).

I've never had a wobble in the steering even after tire rotations and my tire wear is perfectly even on all 4. No pull on straightaways.

I hope they can test it without driving it everywhere. Out of the 12500 miles I've put on the car, 1600 have been to take it to and from the dealer for service.

rbmkcdfi

oh geez... as for the wiring diagram, well, if youre willing to shell out $200 to solve this once and for all, i guess you can get a service manual....

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

i was just saying EXTREME cases of what it might be

anyway as far as the location of the receiver (i looked it up finally, and indeed it does have separate antennas for each wheel) pull down the wheel well liner (after removing the wheel), and look straight up, there should be a box attached with like two 10mm head bolts; and three wires coming out of it, with a single connector coming out of the box (power, ground, and signal wires)


btw: they call them initiators not antennas

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

for your mileage, let me just say one thing, "How MANY miles are you putting on their loaner vehicles, instead of putting them on your own actual vehicle?" (road trip time anyone?)

also for your wiring diagrams, it's actually a very basic diagram when you look at the system, basically power ground and signal(figuring digital signals) wires to each initiator from the main TPMS computer under the dash, then also some wire go up to the insturment cluster from that for the dash light and such, and that is really all there is actually

jbillakdsm

Yeah, I don't feel like driving it all over just to "get back" at them. I'm more frustrated that's it's been there that many times and it keeps happening.

They called me today and left me a message to call back but I didn't get it till after they closed. So tomorrow I will find out if it's good news or bad.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

i don't mean it like in that way; i mean more like you can go on a road trip, and not put the mileage on your vehicle (and i am the same way as you with the dealer's loaner cars, i gotten like 12k with of warranty work done for absolutely free (brand new motor, then later a clutch also... [subaru btw; but same dealer as acura for me though]), so i can't complain
and highway mileage is actually not that hard on a vehicle in all reality, compared to city


and if you give me a rental car, like hertz, Avis, or enterprise; i hope the warranty is up to date; cause i could give two shits about those

737 Jock

They really shouldn't be having this much trouble. The TPMS sends very specific codes. If it is consistently the left-front, then the system will identify if the problem is with the in-tire sensor or the wheel well initiator, as well as the nature of the malfunction. For instance, the initiator code may be: 53 LF Initialization Status Incomplete, 63 LF Intiator Circuit Open -- and a number of others -- 33 codes in all. With each code there is a specific procedure to follow.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

already mentioned the initiator/antenna above ^^^

and as OP said it's consistentally the left front causing the issues, even after rotations (which rules out the in-tire sensors)





but yes; some codes especially on certain systems give you a VERY SPECIFIC diagnostic path to follow, so it should not be 7 times to fix it

jbillakdsm

Got it back this weekend. They basically told me that they drove the car around for 40 miles and couldn't reproduce the problem. They switched the wires for the driver and passenger front TPMS.

Their hope is that the next time it comes on it will tell them if it's the wiring (passenger side will throw code) or software (driver side will throw code). I guess I just have to wait till it happens again.

Just a dumb question at this point. Would running too high of a tire pressure cause the TPMS to shut off? I have Bridegestone Dueler Alenza H/L tires and I run 39-40 psi in them (they are a 51psi max tire). This highest I've ever seen my TPMS read is 43-44psi. Could this cause the problem since the OEM Michelins are a 44psi max tire?

The last thing that annoyed me is that when I got my car back they left me on empty; yet I was instructed 3 times to make sure I brought back the loaner with the same amount of gas in it.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

not really, if anything it would probably throw a light for too high of pressure, and not disable without turning on the light itself


definitely make sure to mention it to them about the gas, as far as getting something out of it, don't expect anything , but if they say buy you a tank of gas, make sure to be appreciative

jbillakdsm

Oh I'll definately be grateful. It costs me $45 in gas and tolls just to get the vehicle in for service so anything would help at this point.

737 Jock

My comments were in reference to what the system is capable of -- in that it can identify either sensor or initiator faults -- in which case the dealership should be seeing specific initiator codes when it faults after a tire rotation. Switching the wiring is at least a start now, to see if the fault changes sides.

At any rate, my TPMS can communicate with the sensors when the wheels are off the car and 1 meter away, so the wheel bearing theory is, well....wobbly.

No. There are no codes or faults for tire high pressure. There are codes for tire high temperature, but that is almost always associated with flex induced heating from low pressure.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

IIRC i had said a long shot for that theory to actually be plausible


and as far as too high of pressure, IN FACT some systems do have such a code (on other brands mainly though), and iirc, it's only when you actually exceed the maximum tire pressure on the tire's sidewall, so it has to be EXTREMELY overinflated before it will even through that code (something like 48+ psi)

jbillakdsm

Tomorrow I leave for Baltimore for a couple days. Nothing says problem will re-develop like a 214 mile trip. I'm going to check all the pressures before I leave. If it's going to happen, hopefully it be before I pass the dealership and I can have them take another look.

jbillakdsm

Went on my trip and had no problems. Set the cold temp before we left at 40 psi. Came home and readjusted the pressures because it was 30 degrees colder than when we left. Adjusted again when it warmed up.
Went to Pittsburgh on Monday and it shut off on the way home. I pulled into the garage and immediately checked the pressures. All were 39-40 psi. It goes back in next weekend.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

maybe the wire they played with was loose at the connections

jbillakdsm

I'm wondering if this is part of the problem. It seems like the system is fine after they "fix" it till I go over a rougher section of road. I avoid potholes with a passion, but they are constantly working on the turnpike here and you go over transitions all the time.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

make sure to also mention that to them, if you have not already
cause whatever it may be, could just be loose enough that the vibrations are causing an issue, with a loose terminal, or even a pin that had not been fully inserted at the factory into one of the connectors (normally they are doable locked, and the secondary lock should of had issues going in, if a pin had not been inserted fully, but it could have slipped by QC though)



and avoid potholes , those can do havoc on suspensions and alignment, especially if you did/do hit them often enough

jbillakdsm

Oh I dodge them like crazy. I have most of the roads aound my house memorized for potholes. That and I leave a good distance between me and the car in front so I can see one if they hit it.

I've told them about the rough roads and they said that shouldn't play a role.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

yes it can, especially if you are looking for a really intermittent issue

and as a reference, what happens to your change in the coin holder (or where ever you may keep it...), when you go over rougher roads
IT VIBRATES, along with everything else in the car, including wiring connectors



here is a good example, on the late 90's Subaru's with a manual, the neutral safety switch goes out (throws a Check engine light) when people live down dirt roads (so constantly vibrated), BUT when they basically always stay on paved roads, they really never go out , so the crappy roads could very well be playing it's part in causing the headaches

737 Jock

Six weeks now with no resolution.

They should be able to narrow it down this time, since they switched wiring. Ask them for the specific code/codes.

btw, I ran the Dueler Alenzas last year; nice tire. I got even wear using 32 to 33 psi.

jbillakdsm

You would think so. They don't really seem willing to tell me the actual codes.
I've tried to run lower pressure around here, but the tires feel too spongy and rith our roads being pretty cupped, it will drag you left & right.

wrestrepo

All the traveling to the dealer must be annoying. I would say ask for a car to have until the problem is resolved, and if is not after that start a claim to make the car a Lemon...give them an ultimatum, otherwise it wont be fixed.
If you like the car so much ask for a new(er) one

jbillakdsm

Yeah the traveling to the dealer is annoying. We've put approx 1K miles just to and from dealer.
It doesn't qualify for PA lemon law because it's more than 1 yr old.
I have a 2011 TSX as a loaner this time. I would think about a trade, but most of their cars were damaged by the tornado last week so everything has hail damage.
My next call will be to Acura's HQ for potential solutions.

wrestrepo

Even if there is documentation of a recurring problem that the dealer has not been able to fix? wow...

737 Jock

If you exhaust your chosen options, you may want to consider looking into the Magnusen-Moss Warranty Act. There is no buy back, but you may be compensated for for your trouble.

We got a very significant settlement for my mother-in-law's trouble with her 2006 Buick.