DRR98

Hello my RDX brothers and sisters. FWD people- anyone else have one or more front drive axle assembly fail?

7/2014 68k mi. our 2011 RDX FWD had the left front drive axle assembly fail (inner joint), and the dealer replaced it with a 44306-STK-A01RM and the problem cleared.
(Note: RM indicates a re-manufactured axle and come with a 30ki mi warranty, where a non RM has only a 1 year warranty. But I'm being told by the dealer there is no coverage due to out of factory warranty)

8/2015 88k mi. the symptoms of pre-failure returned and the dealer says both L & R axle assy's need to be replaced out of factory warranty at a cost of ~ $750.

I'm trying to get the zone rep to cover as goodwill repair and provide a loaner car until the repairs are completed.

The parts are out of stock (CBO) and have no restock estimate date.

Even if they goodwill cover the repair out of warranty repair now, what happens if (or when) 1, 2, or all 3 fail again?

Tomtwtwtw

Sucks that they keep failing, but if they won't good will it you can DIY it. Parts are pretty cheap (under $100 each for a full CV assembly), and while the process can take a while it's pretty straight-forward. Just need to remove a lot of parts to reach and remove the axle.

hues10

I have a 2011 FWD with 43K miles on it. Sounds very uncommon for a front axle to fail in such low miles. Heck, at any miles. What does a fail exactly mean? Car does not go, or makes loud disturbing noises. Also, isn't your left assembly covered under the warranty for three years per your post?

DRR98

First an update-

Dealer said they'd call back mid-week (10/14) and did not.

I called dealer at EOB Fri 10/16, got excuse of service mgr out all week.

Contacted Acura client relations 10/16.

Got a call back from Acura client relations Mon 10/19 am but could not take the call. I later called back twice but only got voice mail.

Mon 10/19 at EOB dealer called back to tell me that serv mgr was in meetings and unavailable, that they were waiting to hear back from Acura, and that the parts are still on b/o and no in stock date. I'm being told they are considering rebuilding joint set or sets, as needed.

Tue 10/20 am waiting on call back from Acura client relations.

hues10
The joint failure first becomes noticeable as a slight subtle thumping felt in the steering wheel and the floorboard on acceleration. More noticeable when cold and or hard acceleration.

As the failure progresses it constantly thumps on accel and also has constant vibration at speed. (dealer says it is still ok to drive!) The car is non-op. Keep going and take out bearings or worse? Who pays to fix that?

I'm being told by the dealer the RM part warranty only applies if I had payed for that part, as in not under warranty.

tom
My cost on the factory L or R driveshaft assy is ~ $150. Great. Will they make them more robust? If not, if just one assy fails every 20k mi...or 10 shafts by 200,000 mi. thats "only" $1500 for parts alone. If the parts is available... Yay, right?

Or, maybe burn all the repair records and sell it to an unknowing buyer?
In good faith it must be disclosed to a buyer. Who would buy it?

DRR98

10/20 PM EOB - serv advisor from Niello Acura (dealer) called to say they are still waiting to hear back from Acura. Still no word on parts availability.

Still no call back from Acura client relations rep.

Car down!

I'm getting low on patience...

thoiboi

Have you checked your other suspension parts i.e the knuckle, fork, UCA, LCA, and wonder why the axle is failing so often? Something is amiss here..


accidents? minor bumps by the wife perhaps?

Tomtwtwtw

DRR, this is one of those instances where you may actually save money AND get a better part by going aftermarket. I certainly wouldn't recommend an OEM replacement at this point. Either way, good luck and hopefully Acura comes through for you.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...nid=364&jpid=5

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...nid=364&jpid=4

http://www.rockauto.com/info/111/Car...ctWarranty.pdf

DRR98

10/21 Acura client relations called. Parts may be avail 11/27/15. They asked if I'd consider going with after-market parts. I asked why the mfg would ask me to use after market parts? Was told this is a known failure and encompasses many cars. I asked how many. Was told no idea. Asked if there was a TSB. No. Asked what does it take for a problem to escalate to a TSB. Got a blah, blah answer.

Was told ACR will talk to the the service mgr at the dealer about possible options.

tom
Thanks for the info. Looks like sound advice. Who'da thunk?

DRR98

10/22 Acura client relations called, no update on new factory parts avail date.

Acura gave a couple options:

Offered to rebuild the L & R axle joints using O/E parts at a cost to me of $307, with 1yr/12k mi warranty.

Offered to use aftermarket parts at a cost to me of $307, with warranty TBD.

I went up the chain of command in hopes of Acura taking complete responsibility for this problem. Was told the regional mgr will review this case and call back in a couple of business days.

The best possible outcome from my perspective would be Acura rebuilds the joints with O/E parts and warrants the parts and labor for 3yr/36k mi. (Or at least cover just the part like they'd do with a RM shaft.)

My best guess as to what Acura will do is stick to the 2 options they've offered.

Backup plan:
Anyone with a factory service manual for 1st gen RDX willing to post the complete procedure and tool list for L & R axleshaft replacement?

I called Napa for parts price and availability- $75 ea. & $5-$10 shipping and about 5 days out and about $170 my cost.

Tomtwtwtw

This may serve you even better than the FSM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJUivyB2fY

I did the same repair on my mom's car earlier this year. Not an RDX, but the process will be very similar. I had to remove the wheel, brake caliper and rotor, and disconnect the strut from the control arm. You'll also need to remove the axle nut, and for that you'll need some serious torque. Cheater bars work wonders. At that point, depending on how much movement you have in the axle, you may also have to disconnect the steering knuckle.

Once the axle has enough room to slide out freely, you'll basically need to yank it out of the transmission. A small washer will likely hold it in place, and you'll need to tap the axle out with a hammer / wedge. For me, "tap" meant "beat the shit out of it". Your mileage may vary.

Some transmissions leak fluid out the axle inlet, some don't - luckily mine did not so no mess to worry about. If you're not sure, have a bucket there to capture and measure the fluid lost, and replace with the same amount of new fluid (hey, a free partial flush!).

With the old axle out, the new one just snapped in. Re-assemble all parts in reverse order and you're good to go.

This is fairly generic, so definitely watch that Youtube video above. Assuming it's good (can't watch at work), it should specify required tools and if anything in addition to the above is needed. Good luck

bluecarbonfiber

Doug- got your message yes I have the shop manual for the rdx, I don't recall if it tells you the parts needed to pull your axles but atleast you get the idea on what to do or whats in the way =) Ill try and add it to my google drive this weekend and PM you with the link to it. sound good?

DRR98

Thanks for the help.

I've looked at so many youtube how to's but none were RDX specific.

I get the general idea, but the FSM would have clear steps. Like indexing the strut so no realignment is needed, along with torque values and necessary socket sizes too.

Tomtwtwtw

True, and now that I'm watching the video it only addresses replacing the inner joint. I personally would just replace the entire unit to avoid playing with boots and grease.

This is the exact video I used to replace the axle on my mother's Cobalt - combined with the specs from the FSM it should be all you need.

DRR98

Hey Thanks Tom

Still waiting for a call back from the regional mgr.

Acura's "goodwill repair" offers so far- at $307 due from me

1) rebuild with o/e parts 1 yr/12 k mi warranty

2) replace with L&R aftermarket RM axles warranty TBD

bluecarbonfiber

Sent you a PM doug.. got the file uploaded on google drive last night =)

DRR98

First,
Thanks for all the helpful info here.^

Update 10/30
Got no call back from the ACR regional mgr as promised. Waited over a week before I called Cristine at ACR. Got to leave her a msg. Told her no call back from regional mgr or anyone from the dealer.

At the EOB (fri 10/30) I got a call back from Frank Swartwout Acura client relations regional mgr. He pleaded ignorance throughout the call. He denied and lied. No other FWD axle failures. Did not know why they are out of stock. The conversation went downhill fast.

I asked him if he had answers for the questions I'd asked Cristine to find out about. He said he had no idea about anything he'd need to get answers to. He said the best Acura would do is get the Napa axles and put them in at a cost to me of $307. Further, he said he still did not know what the warranty would be and he'd have someone call me back.

I asked if it was unusual to have so many FWD RDX's axles fail. He said he was not aware of any other axle failures. When I told him that the people who report to him told me the reason the O/E axles are out of stock is due to the widespread premature failure of these axles. He said he did not know why the parts are not available. He again denied a broader failure of these axles.

I told him I felt let down by Acura. These FWD axles clearly have a flaw that causes premature failure and Acura is not willing take responsibility. I told him I would be documenting this on every social media platform available. And I did so that day.

Then I resigned myself to ordering the aftermarket parts and installing them myself ($75x2 axles $150) and moving on.

2nd Update 11/1 10AM
My one star yelp review of Niello Acura's service dept's and the ACR mgr's handling of this premature axle failure was brought to the attention of dealer Niello Acura in Roseville by their IT guy.

Got a call back from Niello Acura service mgr Chuck Towle.

And guess what? He said that Niello Acura service dept wanted to correct this problem.

Not the factory, but the dealer stepping up.

Chuck offered to supply and install new after market axles from Napa. He said these axles have a lifetime warranty.

He also promised lifetime free labor to replace them. He said "if we have to change them every 20k mi, we will!"

Niello Acura exceeded my expectations by stepping in after the factory rep let me down.

With hope, in a few weeks we will have our RDX back on the road.

DRR98

Update 11/11 9am

Serv mgr
Chuck from Niello Acura called, Napa axles are in and will be installed Fri 11/20.

DRR98

Dealer installed Napa axles 11/13. The inboard joints were the problem on both sides.

Dealer Niello Acura gave me a written warranty covering the axles - parts and labor for as long as we own the car.

Thanks for helpful input Tom, Joshua, and bluecf! Back on the road.

udelslayer

Jumping over to this thread after reading the other one....

Seems like they gave you the hush deal because from what I see about axle and motor mount durability for their newer generation vehicles is a real problem. There is no reason this car should kill these axles in this way. Its not like its snapping shafts. The car is heavy but we paid extra for that fancier H symbol.

I hear that people get a lot of duds with the generic ones. I ordered AZ axles after looking at many and discussing this with my shadetree mentor. Napa axles are Cardone Selects if I read the threads correctly and its pretty much all the same. I almost ordered the cardone selects from rockauto, but I've been burned by them on a tacoma water pump that caused me to end up having to buy a second one from a local dealer to get my warranty failure replaced. I try to buy these important parts from the stores in case I have to get an exchange. Its a shame that nobody is offering upgraded units (unless one of these folks knows a cross compatible set) because it limits the upgradability of this car when its capable of MUCH more power.

I know what initiated our problem. I started "investigating" the sport mode a bit after I did the trans fluid and started liking that extra performance and I am sure thats what pitted the first cups, so the replacements I got were probably duds that were bound to fail.

Its fun, but I drive like an old man usually and take care of my stuff. My wife has a heavy foot. I drive a gutless tacoma for a DD and s2k (which also had the cup issue) for fun.

I will install the AZ axles and report back.
These axles cant be that unique. I'm surprised there isnt a cross compatible unit that might have better aftermarket solutions.

Anyone know what the spindle nut torque is? On the s2k, its factory 240ish lbs, but there was discovered a problem with the clamp force allowing bearings to fail, so there is a DIY forum TSB to add 60 degrees to the nut which equates to about 450lbft. The steel can take it and nearly every s2k has to have it done - there are hundreds already done. Even those axles arent that different. I bet those NVH isolators on the shafts mask the early development of the problem. Generics dont tend to have them.

hues10

I have two questions since I have a 2011 FWD model. Would this be covered under a CPO Powertrain Warranty since it seems to do with being able to send power to the front wheels? And then, how hard of a job is it for a novice DIY? I mean I can do brakes, struts, and stuff, but when we are talking about front axles, does it take special tools? I am always willing to try, but don't want to get in over my head. Thanks.

udelslayer

If you can do struts, you can do axles and you likely have the tools. Follow ETCG's process for breaking the 36mm(?) spindle nut (you'll get new ones, you dont have to unstake the old ones). What you may need is a torque wrench (rent) that goes to 11...err I mean 300lbf and a long breaker bar to remove it. I'm thinking its got 250lb or so on those nuts. Get one bottle of the new honda ATF in case there are drips. You will get charged 600 for this from most places when you can buy some new tools and parts and save money.

I paid somebody to do mine 6 months ago because I was in a jam. I will be doing it myself this next time. FWIW, all the replacement axles for this vehicle have a high dud factor and there arent any good aftermarket options. Being the cups are the failure point, one of these companies needs to read our damn threads and get on the ball making a quality replacement kit. I would buy from your local stores in case of a bad one because shipping it back to rockauto is a PITA. They wont typically provide you with the replacement first. I went through this with a tacoma water pump. It seems (though unconfirmed) that the acura branded are remans with cheaper parts and will fail as easily as the other brands hence the cups costing more than the whole unit.

If somebody finds out that there is a compatible swap using upgraded aftermarket units from something like the civic crowd, that would be awesome.

DRR98

hues10
Yes it would be covered under your powertrain warranty.

How many years/miles does your warranty last?

hues10

300 lb feet torque. Damn, I am not hercules. My warranty is seven years 100K. I am at 5 years, 45K so far. Guess I will watch out for this vibration over the next year. Though the car is sitting right now from the airbag recall. Thanks for the replies.

Spot

Did you get loaner from the dealer? I got an airbag recall notice too and I don't know how to proceed .

udelslayer

Here is an interesting find. We need to measure an inner cup and compare it to their drawing.

INNER JOINT - Febest #0311-CRVLH - old.febest.eu

udelslayer

For some reason the picture wont dispaly, but it does on teh amazon link.

udelslayer

You just need along lever like a jack handle on a 3/4" breaker bar or a good impact gun.

I hope you didnt have to leave your vehicle for the airbag replacement. It takes a few minutes to swap it out and thats with letting the battery discharge. You can just leave the stereo on for 30 minutes, thats surely going to discharge the battery LOL (ok, not exactly). There should be two torx screws on the side holding the entire explosive to the wheel. Pop it out, unplug and reverse installation. Its basically the horn button isnt it? You should still be able to drive your car if they dont have it in stock. I got the notice too, but havent called. I'm glad the s2k doesnt have a takata bag. Hell, it didnt even have an airbag until I replace the stock wheel because I wanted my CC (which I now regret because never find myself using it)....

Dont tell me the RDX has some kind of unobtainable special airbag technology powered by magical troll farts too!

DRR98

Go to the airbag recall post for the whole story.

https://acurazine.com/forums/first-g...recall-941631/

hues10

I watched the you tube video from Eric the Car Guy changing out a front axle. Damn, I don't think I could do that. He is unbolting the whole front suspension. Hammering and twisting and pulling. Would be nice to know the fail rate on these FWD axles. But thanks for answering the questions everyone.

Tomtwtwtw

The level of hammering depends on the car. You don't actually have to remove the suspension, just unbolt the strut and possibly tie rod from the hub so you can get the lateral movement to allow the axle to come out. I replaced the front axle on my mom's car in my garage with hand tools and a breaker bar in about 2 hours, and I'm only slightly mechanically inclined. If you're worried about screwing something up or forgetting where something goes, a couple easy tips to help:

If replacing both axles, do one at a time and use the other side as a reference on how it should look.

Get plastic baggies that have a marker section or use masking tape + pen to label bolts as you take them off.

Worst case, if you get stuck somewhere and can't figure it out, you should be able to put it back together easily and go to a shop. At no point in this process is there a "no turning back".

udelslayer

FWIW, I finally took it in to get the aftermarkets replaced under the shops warranty. They charged me a little more than 600 originally and when I saw the procedure in the FSM, I realized how much I cheated myself out of. The ones they put in were probably Worldpac. I actually bought new Autozone replacements, which actually seem to be of better quality than those A1Cardone units. The shop doesnt like Cardone because they told me they've gotten a LOT of bad replacement axles for all makes over the past months. They didnt have a problem installing the ones I bought. I paid 130 shipped for the pair with whatever promotional discounts were going on.

My dad likes the AZ over Advanced. He's said the AZ are actually better quality boots, grease and balance. I was skeptical but there arent a lot of options. I trust his judgement since I've grown up on junk and getting 350k out of a S10 with a 2.8 using a folgers can to shim a transmission bearing at one point teaches you the most important lesson (GM cars are trash). ......anyway.

I was brought into the shop to observe the procedure since I'll be doing it myself if/when these die next time. The tech told me to wait until the warranty is going to go and make them replace the units.

It was simple. Run out the two bolts and one nut at the bottom of the strut. Take the castle nut of the tie rod and pop that out. Then you can pull that off and away from the spindle. When you pull the driver's side thats actually in the transmission, it doesnt leak any fluid. There is a "window" in the frame below the lip to put a pry bar on it and pop the inner cup out of the seal. The other side requires a drift, but using an air hammer with a 24" long bit on it gives you the leverage to pop it right off. Reverse the procedure and lock in the rings, assemble and done. He used his air gun to torque the axle nut, but he knows his gear, so who am I to question (I would have put a true torque wrench on it myself). He did both sides within 45 minutes meaning they charge you about 450/hr labor at 600 for the job.

Its smooth so far. I found that the inner cup on the pulled ones was rough. I bet the spider broke or dented whatever they used. You could tell that the machine work of the ones pulled (not OEM of course) was crappy. At least the AZ ones have the cup/seal on the end to protect the intermediate shaft bearing. The ones they pulled didnt have it.

No need to do the strut bolts. There is no wishbone to dissect like ETCG's video. This Honduh is much simpler as if they've made the car for easy axle replacement.


just my .02.

J

Lemor Johnston

DRR98... thanks for all the information, My 2011 RDX is parked in the drive way and I am also waiting on a call from someone Acura told me would call. How good are the Napa replacements

DRR98

So far, so good. We are at ~105k mi - about 15k miles on this set.

Good luck brother!

Steve1

Add me to the list. 2011 FWD, axles replaced at 52K. Disappointing to say the least.

Has anyone determined if the OEM axles are just crap and can't handle the torque? Or, is it a design flaw that will allow the engine to tear through pretty much any axle? Anybody having luck with a particular brand aftermarket axle? This will definitely affect how I drive the car in the future.

Tomtwtwtw

For those that have experienced axle failure, what symptoms are you having? Critical failure to where you cannot drive, or stuff like wobble, vibration, shimmy, etc? I ask because my car has had a slight vibration under acceleration from ~15 - 25 mph. More noticeable under harder accel, but undetectable at very light accel or wot. Been like this since I got it at 50k, currently at 125k now. I assume it's related to the axle, but at the same time it has not changed at all in the last 3.5 years / 75k miles. Will probably replace both front axles next year when I do shocks/struts, but I'm mainly curious what other symptoms point to axle failure?

Steve1

Feels like an up and down shudder/wobble in the front end. You can feel it in the steering wheel and floorboards. I experienced it under moderate to hard acceleration, otherwise, the ride seemed normal.

I also have that low speed vibration that you described, but didn't notice it until I replaced the axles. My guess (no proof) is that it may just be lower quality/precision in machining the aftermarket axles. Not too sure what it is and not too concerned about it right now since it's so minor. I'm just hoping the design/quality of the OEM axles is the weak point and the problem is now fixed, rather than a design flaw in the vehicle.

Good luck to you.

Tomtwtwtw

Gotcha...yeah, my wobble is not major, and hasn't changed over time. A passenger would probably not notice or just assume it's from the road. I don't tend to have a heavy foot, but over the years I've had enough hard accel moments to where I do not believe the torque is going to make it worse. Still, it's one of those things I'd just rather not have in car. Aside from that it has been perfect for 125k miles. Can't ask much more.

NBPDC505

Had mine replaced on 2011 FWD at 65k mi under warranty. Noticeable shaking under acceleration stopped afterwards.

RDXTACY

udelslayer

Seeing some activity and revisiting this thread as I was doing some Google-fu to find out if there were more reports on this. I ended up getting my AZ axles warrantied yet again. This is the 4th set of front axles on this car and they're going to fail again. This is not a problem with my process of installation, but just crap axles. NOBODY makes a replacement with decent parts. Raxles wont make me a set. In a straight line, I dont feel as much wobble, but you definitely feel it when you turn the wheel, which means that the spider is moving along the channels in the cup and there is some kind of unevenness there. When shifting into reverse-drive or drive-reverse, there is enough play to make a clunk sound like something is loose. This developed in less than 10K miles this time. The car isn't being abused. I've been very observant of the developments. Its important to have a smooth drivetrain. These vibrations will lead to wear and premature failures of other components over time.

FWIW, it seems that the dampeners that are on the OEM rods but not on the aftermarket ones are very important for this car. I have read somewhere that the circlip on the 2-piece side is also thicker on the OEM, so keep your stockers for parts to swap over if you use aftermarket. That clip is supposed to take up some slack to prevent the metal clunk sound. Everything is thicker. The failure part is the cups, which indent and vibrate when the rollers hit that indentation.

Replacement is straight forward, but you will be MUCH faster and happier if you have an air hammer with a long rod unseat the clips. A prybar works, but is a PITA to get the leverage if you're only on jack stands. When you have to pry against the transmission, its hard to get the edge of the bar between the cup and the case. Its also scary because you're close to the seal and might damage it. If the vehicle is level, you wont leak any fluid when you remove the stub. At least 250lbft of torque on the axle nuts. More is unlikely to cause issues.

I will be buying $600 worth of OEM axles when I swap this again in the near future. I'm tired of this problem and it was originally caused by playing around in sport mode, which we no longer use. The axles just can't handle it. IMHO this problem ruins the driving experience. The other place you'll feel NVH is between 25-35mph because of it trying to engage in too high of a gear. I'm sure it could be custom programmed, but I think it needs to use a better ratio. You're not trying to save gas at that speed anyway.

Its a fun car for the most part. The motor is known for its durability, but I noticed that people dont tend to keep these vehicles more than a few years and trade/sell them when they still have a lot of life. I dont use a drop of oil. Still strong at 130k miles. The FSM dedicates a lot of info to the transmission, which frightens me. Its very complex. The cargo space is impractical. The way my wife drives it, I renew the brakes and rotors every 18 months. If it were my primary, I'd Hondata flash it, upgrade the suspension, and put a wheel combo on there with more sidewall for comfort.

bonus tip: if you havent already, do your P/S pump o-ring. Its likely allowing air in on the low pressure side and its SUPER easy to access on this configuration. Take off the p/s reservoir cap and if you have bubbles, you need to do it. Its not leaking fluid. The part is and it seems that nearly every honda has this problem.