Lanesky_OH8RDX

Ok so tonight was the third time I have had to call CAA to get my car jumped due to the battery. They tested it this time instead of just hooking up a booster and said it was pretty much done. So since I have time and don't drive the car everyday I want to get opinions on what would be a good replacement? I know OEM ones are an arm and a leg but I will pay it if it will last.

Opinions please!

737 Jock

OEM batteries are low powered to improve fuel economy numbers. Get a good aftermarket battery with higher CCA. I use Walmart Everstart Maxx 35N.

mau108

Costco's Kirkland is also another good one.

DateTSX

Replaced mine a few month ago with Duracell at Sam's club. After 5 years I feel it need to be replace.

NBP04TL4ME

How does battery power - relate/equate to fuel economy?

Lanesky_OH8RDX

More fuel needed to start the car to compensate for the lack of cranking amps I assume.

NBP04TL4ME

Unless there is a lot of cranking going on, I'm having a tough time seeing this impacting fuel mileage.

This is a discussion from the 3rd gen TL and it is more about surging and the impact of heat on the battery. Along with that discussion is a lot of discussion about different batteries. I know you have an RDX but assume brand/family info applies.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/those-lack-power-surging-hot-weather-859713/

mau108

He meant the weight of the battery. Less weight in the vehicle overall, better mpg.

NBP04TL4ME

Okay - that's makes a little more sense. However even a larger battery isn't going to weigh, but what, an extra 10-15 lbs? This in and of itself probably isn't going to have a large impact on mileage either. Now a heavier battery along with carrying around extra weight in the trunk or back seat - that can add up.

737 Jock

Keep in mind that not one electron of electrical power in a car is free.

The RDX alternator produces the power that charges the battery, and the alternator is turned by a gasoline engine. Every amp of electric power produced is created by burning a measurable quantity of gasoline. A more powerful battery requires more gasoline energy to charge it.

Also, as mau pointed out, a more powerful battery weighs more. And once again, every ounce of weight requires a measurable quantity of gasoline energy to move it down the road. (Weight, is why the S2000 Club Racer lacks AC and audio.)

The manufacturers are under the severe constraints of the CAFE standards to reduce gasoline consumption. Reducing the power and weight of the battery to the minimum needed, is one of many ways they improve their CAFE numbers.

The gas saved doesn't mean much to the end user, but is extremely important when multiplied by millions on the fleet-wide basis.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

WOW !!! so much fail in this thread....

the battery has nothing to do with MPG....CCA is cold cranking amps, the TL needs 450 of those....so the TL needs 450CCA to start up....if you buy a battery with lower CCA it wont start the car....if you buy a battery with tooo many CCA's (say 1000+) then you are prolly paying too much and the higher CCA will fail in the summer heat....

now that we got that covered....the battery weight loss (I am running a 11lb braille battery) is about 30lbs....if you want to tell me, you gain 1mpg coz you lost 30lbs, I have lost 700lbs off my car, should i be getting around 23.333333 mpg MORE ???

I would stick with any battery that offers around 550-650CCA (for the TL, for the RDX find out how much CCA the car needs and buy a battery appropriately) and just call it a day....

Around a year back got the Advance Auto Parts Autocraft Gold battery in the wifey's car. The battery was about $110 and used the coupon code (BATX) to get 25% off...Ordered online and selected pick up in store. Went in and they changed the battery and tested the electrical system for free. Paid around 75-80 bucks (including tax) and got a 3 year replacement and 7 year prorated warranty battery installed....not bad

Mr Marco

catnippants

^This. This was what I was thinking when you made your first post. Larger capacity battery means more work for the alternator to charge it. More work for the alternator means more work for the engine....

The real question is whether it would be noticeable in the long run.

Lanesky_OH8RDX

well I just said screw it and got a new battery at costco for 75 bucks. 64.50 after returning the old one so I'm happy with that. starts better, everything is brighter and now I don't have to worry about anything for at least three years with the warranty it has.

737 Jock

It probably only becomes evident when multiplied by thousands or millions for CAFE standards. The battery is only one user of alternator power and it typically draws less than halogen headlights, window defrosters, AC, etc. (Though for CAFE every ounce of gas counts -- hence the low draw xenon headlights and LED tails now.)

Also, by the time the OEM battery is 3-something years old and acting screwy, it is so degraded, that the higher capacity aftermarket battery may draw less charging amps.

Acura's latest RDX battery 31500-SL5-100M (which also goes in the NSX) is rated at 65 amp/hour (on the 20 hour scale) with a Reserve Capacity of 100 minutes and 490 CCA.

Compare that to the Wally-world Everstart Maxx 35 at 80 amp/hour, 128 minute RC and 640 CCA. The most important fuel economy measure of amp/hour gives the Everstart about 23% higher capacity for the alternator to charge. But it also means that it and every decent aftermarket battery should provide better service to the owner than the CAFE battery.

CCA is related to plate surface area, so the cheap batts brag about high CCA by using a lot of thin weak plates that take a shallow surface charge and will break down faster.

The problem is that batt marketers are getting away from providing amp/hour and RC info. They just push CCA to uninformed consumers.

One simple (unofficial) rule is that CCA/5 = RC in minutes. Notice how that works with the Acura (490/5=98) and Everstart (640/5=128) batts. I was looking at some off-brand batt that claimed 680 CCA -- which would be a whopping 136 RC -- but the stated RC was only 80. That is a sure sign that they stuffed it full of thin weak plates.

Mr Marco

OP, What is your average trip length?
Formatting is more of an issue than plate size/number. A good battery takes time to set, early use can make or break any battery, cheap or not.
Most lead acid batteries and require 20 to 50 full cycles to reach peak capacity in the early part of their lives. This might be the real issue OP is having. All those little short trips down to the 7-11 is not giving the new battery a chance to reach full potential. What it really needs when it is new is a bunch of long trips to grandmas house without the lights, radio, defroster sucking all the charge out of it.

Lanesky_OH8RDX

It is mainly short trips. I am currently in school and cant afford long trips unfortunately (I love to drive but gas is expensive up here). so the battery probably wont last.

737 Jock

Only Deep Cycle and Marine batteries are designed to be deep cycled.

Auto batteries are called SLI (Starting, Lighting, Ignition). SLI batteries have no memory, will not benefit from cycling and will be damaged by Depth of Discharge more than about 5%.

Upon starting, the SLI battery gives up about 2% to 3% of charge and then retires as a user of alternator output. The RDX alternator puts out 105 amps and is more than capable of powering all electrical users (lights, defroster, etc) and charging the battery at the same time.

Underway, the battery is only called upon as a shock absorber for electrical transients. For instance when a high draw motor kicks on (such as cooling fans) the battery absorbes the momentary spike, protecting the rest of the system. After about 15 minutes on the road, the SLI battery remains fully charged, despite other users.

Repeated short trips are hard on the SLI battery because it remains in a state 1% to 2% discharge when it is called on to start again. The depth of discharge gradually increases with each short cycle.

Cycling of Lead Acid Batteries, EPC EDU

"Lead acid batteries, used in the starting of automotive engines, are not designed for deep discharge. They (sometimes called SLI for starting, lighting, ignition) can suffer damage from deep discharge easily, as they have a maximum current output due to numerous thin plates for maximum surface area. An automotive battery can last for thousands of cycles in normal 2-5% discharge starting use, but normally will only survive 30-150 deep cycles. Repeated deep discharges will cause loss in capacity and eventual premature failure- due to electrode disintegration from the mechanical stresses that cycling results in."

Battery Source.com

"SLI (Starting Lighting Ignition) batteries have no memory effect. They are designed to start something, then an alternator or charging system charges the batteries back up immediately.

Deep Cycle Batteries, which are commonly used for Marine Trolling Motors, RV Accessories and Golf Cars, are designed to run something for a long period of time and then use a charger to charge back up. Deep cycle batteries are designed for this cycle type use."

Windsun Battery FAQ

"Starting (sometimes called SLI, for starting, lighting, ignition) batteries are commonly used to start and run engines. Engine starters need a very large starting current for a very short time. Starting batteries have a large number of thin plates for maximum surface area. The plates are composed of a Lead "sponge", similar in appearance to a very fine foam sponge. This gives a very large surface area, but if deep cycled, this sponge will quickly be consumed and fall to the bottom of the cells. Automotive batteries will generally fail after 30-150 deep cycles if deep cycled, while they may last for thousands of cycles in normal starting use (2-5% discharge)."

dcmodels

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanesky_OH8RDX

... I want to get opinions on what would be a good replacement? I know OEM ones are an arm and a leg but I will pay it if it will last. Opinions please!

My dealer sells a replacement battery for about $110 (installed, less if you install it) which is not much more than the average replacement battery. It says ACURA on the battery. The good news is that it has a full 3-year replacement warranty, and is rated at 640 CCA vs. the OEM 440 CCA rated battery (in my own 2009). And that means it can be replaced/ warrantied at any Acura dealer. Of course, it is just a lead-acid battery and will have all of the same problems as the OEM battery.

There are four basic reasons why the OEM RDX battery does not last very long:

Ø Many short trips will slowly discharge the battery, causing sulfation and failure.

Ø Overuse of the accessories will slowly discharge the battery, causing sulfation and failure.

Ø Operation of the battery in excessive heat damages the cell plates, eventually leading to an electrical short.

Ø Failure to top-up the battery with water will eventually short one of the cells – instant failure.

Replacing the OEM battery with a higher capacity (higher CCA rating) battery will not address any of these problems. In fact, that will exacerbate (increase) the problems. The puny OEM RDX alternator (105 amps) cannot even keep the puny OEM battery fully charged, unless the vehicle is driven daily, and on trips of at least 10 miles. The OEM alternator will simply have more trouble keeping the higher CCA battery fully charged.

My OEM RDX battery is rated at 440 CCA (cold cranking amps), and the OEM alternator is rated at 105amps at 13.5volts. A 700 CCA battery should be powered by a 140-150amp alternator.

Nonetheless, I plan to replace my OEM battery with a 700CCA one, but I also plan to continue to regularly use a ‘smart’ trickle charger to keep the battery fully charged, and de-sulfated. A partially charged battery will sulfate, and refuse to take a full charge. This is a vicious cycle, with the battery slowly discharging and finally dying.

While a high CCA battery can be difficult to keep fully charged with the OEM alternator, it is nice to have for the extra capacity when: the vehicle was left sitting at the airport for 2-weeks, starting the engine at 10 below zero, when using the butt-warmer on high for several hours during the winter, and when sitting for 2 hours in traffic in 100 plus heat with the A/C running.

OVERUSE OF THE ACCESSORIES:
Well, if the accessory is included on my car, I want to use it as often as I want to use it. There should be no such thing as overuse of an accessory. But the RDX OM (owner manual) specifically cautions against ‘excessive’ use of the butt-warmers (seat heaters). WTF?

Here is a quote from my OM: “If the engine is left idling for an extended period, do not use the seat heaters, even on the LO setting. It can weaken the battery, causing hard starting.”

Anyway, the puny RDX alternator is why your battery keeps going south (dying).

WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT HIGH HEAT?
The RDX battery box is already about as well designed to protect the battery from excessive heat as possible. There are heat blankets available for batteries, but these can only be used if you remove the RDX battery box. The blanket is not going to work as well as the box, speaking myself as an engineer. The RDX battery box seems to work quite well, and keeps the battery in the RDX much cooler than the battery in my Chevy, under similar driving conditions.

Heat kills a battery much faster than cold temperatures. So purchase a battery specifically engineered for high heat, if you live where it gets really hot in the summer. If you live in Canada, purchase a battery engineered for cold weather. And if like myself, you live where it is very hot in the summer, and very cold in the winter, skew your purchase toward a ‘hot’ battery.

SEARS sells batteries labeled as NORTH and SOUTH types. The basic difference between NORTH and SOUTH type batteries, is that the SOUTH batteries have fewer and thicker charging-plates than the NORTH type batteries. That allows the SOUTH batteries to better withstand the high temperatures normal to southern USA climes. And the SOUTH batteries typically have a (slightly) lower CCA rating than the NORTH batteries.

WHAT IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO CHECK THE WATER LEVEL IN THE BATTERY?
Once the water level in a battery falls below the top of the charging plates, the battery dies almost at once (permanently damaged by an electrical short).

I have to add water to the OEM RDX battery twice per year. The 4-year old GM battery in my Chevy has never required water to be added.

So purchase a low-maintenance replacement battery, or a specialty Gell-cell or AGM type battery (no water *CAN* be added). Or one of the sealed types as sold by Sears and K-Mart. It was once possible to determine whether or not a battery would require frequent water addition, from the advertising literature. No longer. It seems that the battery manufacturers are hiding everything about the battery, that is useful in determining which is a good battery.

Only Consumer Reports has useful information. The CostCo Kirkland RDX replacement battery was given a high rating. But its low cost probably indicates low-tech battery chemistry, an indication that frequent water replenishment will be required. But this is the replacement battery that I plan to purchase.

WHAT IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO CONSTANTLY USE A BATTERY CHARGER:
Consider a GELL-cell or AGM (absorbed gas mat) type battery, although they typically cost 2-3 times as much as a lead-acid battery. And do not generally last any longer than a lead-acid battery that is kept fully charged. But note the conditional: they last longer than the lead-acid battery if the lead-acid battery is allowed to sulfate because it is *NOT* kept full charged.

But the specialty batteries still require occasional fully charging. Otherwise, they too will eventually sulfate and die. You can charge them by driving 30 miles on the freeway, without stopping.

A HIGH CCA-RATED BATTERY CAN SHORTEN THE SERVICE LIFE OF THE ALTERNATOR:
When the battery has a low charge, the load on the alternator is higher than when the battery has a normal (full) charge level. A high CCA-rated battery with a low charge-level, will load the alternator more than a low CCA-rated battery with a low charge. That is, it takes more engine power (more gas) to turn the alternator when the battery has a low charge. And while this is of no significance to the driver of the individual car, it is of great significance to the car manufacturer’s overall CAFÉ rating.

But there is something in this which _is_ of significance to the individual driver. If the load on the alternator is high enough, the diodes in the alternator will be ‘fried’ (burned out), and you get to buy a new alternator. Actually, it’s the voltage regulator which is damaged. In the olden days, that was a separate part. But for a long time (years) now, the voltage regulator has been an integral part of the alternator.

A damaged alternator will not happen overnight, unless the battery charge-level is severely low or the battery is actually (electrically) damaged. But over a period of years, even a small additional load on the alternator adds-up. The 2009 RDX alternator is rated at 105 amps, and the OEM battery at 440 CCA. The alternator in my Chevy is rated at 100 amps, and the OEM battery at 690 CCA. After several years of driving the Chevy with a constantly low battery, the alternator died. The Chevy was (and never is) driven often enough, or far enough at-a-time, to keep the battery fully charged-up. And the batteries in that Chevy never lasted long, either.

A 700 CCA battery with a low charge, will simply induce a much larger load on the alternator, than a 450 CCA battery with a low charge. My solution to this problem of a low battery is to regularly use a ‘smart’ charger, which not only keeps the battery charge level OK, but also de-sulfates the battery.

A battery that is constantly kept at a low charge, will sulfate. And a sulfated battery _cannot_ accept a full charge, until it has been de-sulfated. So not only will leaving your car parked in the garage, for days-at-a-time, discharge the battery, it will actually damage (sulfate) the battery, so that it cannot be properly recharged. And the battery will therefore cause a constant higher-than-normal load on the alternator, when the car is driven.

MORE BATTERY INFORMATION:
If you want more info on battery maintenance, to make your battery last longer, try this link:

LINK:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=775689

dcmodels

Close - Actually a new battery needs two things: buy one that is less than 3-months old or it is already damaged from sulfation.

And before initial use a new battery should be trickle charged for at least 20 hours with a 'smart' charger, to reach a full charge and remove any residual sulfation, from sitting on the shelf where you bought it.

And no, I have never had time to do the initial charging, before battery installation. But I have done it in the car, immediately after installation. This can make a significant difference in the service life of the battery.

737 Jock

Well, at max output the RDX alternator is pumping 105 amps. That is about 1417 to 1550 watts at nominal voltage, which equals 1.9 to 2.0 horsepower.

Of course, the alternator doesn't run at max output continuously -- maybe about half that. So for our purposes the 1 HP or so it takes to run the alternator will never be detectable in mpg, regardless of battery.

The OEMs use complicated formulas to reflect these small measures in their fleet CAFE.

gc_srt

Has anyone tried the Optima Redtop battery on their RDX? I am up north and my wife called today to say her RDX is starting poorly. It seams to be directly related to cold, so I am assuming the battery is almost toast. Not too concerned with increasing mpg by changing the battery

superblast

dcmodels and 737 Jock, thanks for all the info you guys provide!

I just picked up an EZRED hydrometer per dcmodel's guide and checked my battery over the weekend. If I'm reading it correctly, my cells range from 1.235 to 1.250 which I'm assuming means it's on it's way out. One of the cells was quite low on water too so I added some distilled to the suggested level.

I don't have a CostCo membership so I guess the Kirkland battery is out. Anyone have any other suggestions? I'll probably pick up the Walmart battery suggested by 737 otherwise.

dcmodels

So, two things. The EZRED hydrometer can be calibrated against distilled water - there is a marking/ reading on the hydrometer. Fill a cup with distilled water, and set the cup out in the garage until the temp matches your battery - leave both overnight is easiest unless it is below freezing.

Then you must adjust any battery readings against the WATER reading. For example, if the water reading is 10 points low, such as 0.990 instead of 1.000 then you must add 10 points to all of your battery readings. Note that the scale on the EZRED is not linear.

And if your WATER reading is 10 points high, such as 1.010 then you must subtract 10 points from all of your battery readings.

Do NOT adjust your battery readings by the amount of distance that the POINTER is off, but by the READING.

Second, if your readings are really as low as you have posted, I am truly surprised that your car will start.

dcmodels

Consumer Reports rated the BOSCH Premium Power 35-640B just above the Wally-world battery, at $90. Available only from Pep-Boys. However, my Pep-Boys will not sell that battery for less than $120. But prices vary around the country.

One other thing: Consumer Reports says that the Wally-World EVERSTART battery is not pro-rated after 3 years, while the BOSCH is prorated after 3 years to 96 months, if that matters to you.

737 Jock

Advance Auto is still offering code BATX for 25% off their Gold series RDX battery (size 35). That's a very good battery at a very competitive price.

Disclaimer: I like Advance Auto. They are good to me and my friends work there.

superblast

Thanks again for the advice, guys.

I rechecked and tested with distilled water that sat in the garage overnight. The distilled measured at the center of the water mark so that makes things a little less complicated. Most of the cells measured between 1.245 and 1.255 with one around 1.237 and one around 1.230. That last one was noticeably lower on water on my initial check and I probably added a tablespoon or two to get it back to the correct level.

I got a free minor maintenance from my dealer for test driving the new RDX so I had that done today and they checked the battery and said it tested good at 374 CCA. I figured they'd tell me it was bad but they found other stuff.

My commute to work is about 25 hwy miles each way so I have a feeling that is charging it enough to keep it alive but if it sits for a couple of days, it probably won't start. We haven't dipped below freezing here yet either. So, I'll probably just replace it. Checked on Advance Auto (thanks for the code!) but there's none nearby (DFW area) and they won't ship batteries. Shame because it came out to $99 shipped with the code. I'll probably get a Bosch at Pep Boys this week. They have it for around the same price after a rebate.

Again, thank you both for your detailed "how tos" in the DIY section. Before owning my RDX, the most I would tackle was oil changes but I've done a lot more on the RDX and your guides really made it easy.

737 Jock

Advance, Pep Boys, Autozone, Sears etc. are all going to be decent batteries -- better than OEM -- with good warranties.

Wally-world is well, ya know...Wally-world. But, as dcmodels points out, Consumer Reports scores the EverStart battery pretty highly.....and there is one Walmart advantage:

A few years ago we were on vacation in the Mitsubishi, far from home, when the (3-something year old) EverStart battery began acting screwy. I made it to a Walmart (they are never far away) and plunked the dying battery on the counter. The lady gave me a brand new EverStart and off we motored.

Big deal -- everybody has a warranty -- so what's the Wal-mart advantage? It was 2:00 am on a Sunday morning!

Try waking up the Pep Boys at that hour.

737 Jock

Good point. I went out and looked at my replacement EverStart battery. It now says only "3 year free replacement". No more mention of prorate anymore.

TRQLESS

I have purchased (2) batteries from costco, they have a 3 year free replacement and up to 7 year pro-rated expense reimbursement towards another one. Hard to beat a deal like this. I believe it was about $70 not including the $9-10 core charge (which you get back). The batteries have been in two separate cars that have been installed for over a year each and I have had zero issues.

dcmodels

374 / 440 (new) CCA = 15% discharged, which is really a bit low considering the new battery is marginal IMO. Also, remember that when your battery is tested by the dealer, you have just driven it in, and it is holding a surface charge. That will not matter if the battery is healthy, but if the battery is partly sulfated, the 'real' reading will be lower. And can only be taken after the battery has been sitting overnight, to dissipate the surface charge.

I note this for others reading these posts, and do not wish to read my long thread on battery maintenance. And what matters more is the difference between the highest and lowest readings, which you have noted is 1.255 > 1.230, and I become concerned when the readings differ by 0.015 (or more) because it means the battery is becoming sulfated, and cannot accept a full charge.

That daily commute should keep a healthy battery fully charged, but once it becomes (partially) sulfated, the battery simply will not accept a full charge. It requires an electronic de-sulfating charger to de-sulfate the battery, and only then will it accept a full charge. So yes, you may have trouble when it gets colder, or the car sits for a few days. I have noticed my own 3 year old battery will begin to discharge when allowed to sit for 4 days (long weekend).

You are welcome, and glad to know that someone has been helped by my own DIY threads. And I myself read and appreciate the threads by 737Jock.

AnyaBoo

When I had an OEM battery put in the Nissan Altima I recently traded in, it was an arm and a leg but it was a 84 month battery with 75% off a new battery if it went out under warranty.

superblast

Yeah, I'll just replace the battery for peace of mind. I think this battery is about three years old now and it was somewhat abused before I bought the car because the original owner wasn't aware of the TSB for the slow draining audio amp (or something along those lines). I had the part replaced right after I bought the car but the battery has always seemed to struggle and has required a couple of jumps in the two years I've owned it.

I actually checked my local Walmart because I like to support them and they have the battery 737 suggested but I'll probably get the Bosch because of the additional prorate.

superblast

Well, the holidays got the better of me and my battery was working okay so I never got it changed out. But our theory was proven yesterday as the temperature here finally dropped to below freezing. The battery was barely able to turn the starter. Ended up getting the Bosch at Pep Boys today and I was rewarded for my procrastination. They've got a $20 off $100 coupon on their webpage and there's a $20 rebate at the moment.

Now we know that my low reading battery was kept on life support with my high mileage commute and mild weather.

Vividsi

This just happened to me, I drive the RDX everyday which are all short trips, I use all the accessories all the time. So I go to lunch and when I get back I shut the motor off and have the key at accII position and crack the windows and 5 min later I cant put them back up, then sure enough I cannot start the car so I have to get jumped.

The RDX was serviced with a brand new interstate about 5 months ago.

Now Im looking at a new Stinger SPV53 Deep cycle to see if that can power the RDX properly and not leave me on the side of the road.

mrgold35

I installed an interstate battery on my TSX about a year ago and it died about 2 weeks ago with zero warning. Jumped it and drove over the interstate folks to test the battery and it had a bad cell (almost dry). They gave me a new one because I had the 3 year free replacement. I have the same battery on my RDX for about 18 months with no problems. I'm glad I carry jumper cables in both vehicles just in case (folks don't seem to carry jumper cables anymore).

This is my 3rd battery for 2 cars in 6 years (2 OEM, 1 interstate) that died with no warning. What happened to the good ole' days where you at least got 4-5 slow starts before the battery died?

Vividsi

I use the stinger in my Si and the first one lasted for 4 years and I ordered a new one when it started having trouble starting.

With this setup there was no warning which is unacceptable.

Im just going to order what I know works. well, for the civic at least.