fliplyricist1

ok that's epic then. I'd be willing to pay a shop more to swap in a 6 speed to the j30 rather than getting the stock tranny rebuilt. It'd be worth the peace of mind plus overall bad'assness. lol@me making up new words.

Kyanite

Damn. Just learned somethin new as well. That's real good to hear, I figurde I'd need
to swap in a different engine as well with the tranny whch made the 6 speed option undesirable for me, but this brings in a new light!

Dblock0405

yea ive been considering doing this because im trying to sell the car. the auto trans is horrible. ima do this swap and keep the car.

so lets get this list going of whats needed.
03 accord- non lsd
?? cl-s- lsd
04 tl- lsd

2.x pedals.

add on

P0401

iTrader: (1)

Other parts you would need would be slave cylinder, switches (which may come with your pedals), gear shifter, console piece for manual shifter..... trying to make a list of things I know will be needed before the swap is started so if anyone has other parts please chime in

Dblock0405

so:
trans
pedals/switches
slave cylinder
gear shifter
console piece

wiring?
ecu?
shift linkage? (or is that the gear shifter lol)
custom tranny mount?
what clutch?
axles? ( cant remember if that has anything to do with the trans)

chime in guys. lets get an official list going so we could see some 3.0 6spd's

P0401

iTrader: (1)

not sure how the shifter hooks to the transmission. I know camaro's goes straight into the trans but thats rear wheel drive so I doubt this is how it is on the CL, probably has to have some type of linkage to change gears. Guess I need to look around and see what I find on the web

P0401

iTrader: (1)

ok I went to alldatapro and did some searching and it seems you may want to try and find the whole shifter assembly from a CL also because it has 2 cables (a shift cable and another selector cable). I saved the removal and reassembly from a 2.x manual and also removal/reassembly 3.2 CL in pdf format and also saved some pictures of the shifter parts if you want them just msg me your email address and I will email them to anyone who wants them

fliplyricist1

im loving where this is going. yes indeed let's get a master list and make a sticky thread of exactly everything needed for the 6 speed swap on the stock j30 block. This is a godsend for probably 90 percent of us with a 3.0

Dblock0405

yea i would like those files. ill send u my info.

but yea. this should be going good. i sat in my car imaging how it would be to have the 6spd in it. i was using my knowledge from building my civic and all the other cars i built and worked on. thought of more stuff to add.

cylinder that has the clutch fluid.(should come with the pedals too)
starter? (original might work, need to do some research)

i lost all my train of thought right about now. lol

lets get this list going

P0401

iTrader: (1)

That is the slave cylinder I mentioned above and I really doubt it will come with the pedals since its usually under the hood and the pedals are just attached under the dash. Dblock, I have sent you the files, I hope they help you. Some of the pictures is an exploded view so it shows every part in the whole assembly but still should be helpful

Tehvine

I would hazard a guess that you can get most of the components (clutch, axles, etc) from one of the 03-07 6spd 3.0 accords. I am unsure if you'd need a new ECU. You might have to fool some sensor inputs to stop a CEL and possibly fool the ECU into thinking the car is in gear for vtec and whatnot. You will also want to verify the speed sensor (for speedo) on the MT is the same as the AT when it comes to the signal/wiring. Leaving the auto ECU will likely throw a CEL for mainshaft/countershaft speed sensors, turbine speed sense, etc. As far as I remember from messing with my accord's auto trans, those sensors can be fooled with resistors as DC resistance was used to test their health. The shift solenoids would also throw a code as far as I know, but you can just plug those in and hang them until another solution was found.

From a physical concern I would be worried about:
Finding a trans mount solution
Shift linkage / position
Custom clutch lines or pull them from a 6spd accord
Axles, possibly hubs (might end up being a good time for a 5lug conversion)
Clutch

My plan of attack if I was serious about it and had a 3.0 and had the tools would be to find a wrecked 03-05 accord 6spd and have at it. That way you would have pretty much anything you would need aside from pedals.

Blazin Si

Not sure if anyone has already been pulling info from this, but fsttyms1 posted a lot of info regarding the 6 speed swap for the 2nd gen TL. Looks like it requires a new timing belt pulley, cam gear, cam gear cover, headers and a lot of wiring. That motor is more similar to the CLS6's than the J30 is.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/6-speed-conversion-591872/

P0401

iTrader: (1)

how can something on the front of the motor like a timing belt pulley be required for something that bolts to the rear of the engine block like a transmission? Please remember I have mostly messed with muscle cars so if this is a stupid question please overlook it and respond with the correct answer because it just doesn't make much sense to me

Blazin Si

It doesn't have anything to do with the transmission bolting up to the block.

It looks like he pulled the standard TL motor and replaced it with an auto J32 Type S motor. The timing was possibly off due to the different belt pulley, timing belt and cam gear since he's using an ECU for the manual CL-S motor. Remember, your tuning options are limited with the J series. If you can't get it to work with OEM parts, you might be in trouble.

This is my biggest concern for those that are attempting to do a 6 speed swap on the J30. Axels, mounts and shift linkage can all be fabricated. Civic's and Integra's have been doing this for years. Getting the ECU to work with the stock motor is going to be a challenge. The Accord manual ECU might work. The CL's motor might be similar enough that swapping a few parts and an ECU could do the trick. However, the Accord J30 manual came 4 years after the CL. Long enough for Honda change the design and the ECU not be compatible.

P0401

iTrader: (1)

ok now I think I understand. I also read a thing on HT that had the same parts list C/P from here over here and a guy with the nick RedneckDave (he said he did the swap as well) said some of the parts on the list are not required and he edited the parts list with a note beside some of them that weren't actually required to do the swap

Dblock0405

well im glad others are putting their two cents in. i think this swap would such a nice thing to see happen. like seems easier then it actually is. when i was thinking about it and talking to my friend that been doing honda/acura motor swap, what is the cost gunna be to do it all. to actually do it and get the wiring done, wouldnt be a problem. but to gather this all together, might be pricey. is it really worth it? or maybe its just worth to get another car?

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

axles - reuse the 3.0 axles..
Ecu - get a custom plug and play harness from richie on (V 6 P) which would allow you to reuse the stock computer..
shift linkage - CL-S or accord V6 shift linkage
tranny mount - custom, definately need to tap into the tranny..

P0401

iTrader: (1)

Thats a good question. If your transmission goes out and you want to keep your car I would say its worth it because if you add a few hundred dollars to what it would cost to get the automatic rebuilt you could have a transmission you would never have to worry about, unlike the automatic

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

& it would improve the performance of the car drastically..

fliplyricist1

^^ this.

but realistically, are we really talking about 'only a few hundred more than rebuilding the 3.0 tranny?' I'm thinking possibly a g or more just for labor not even including the price of the tranny if you're having it done professionally. Just an initial guess but I'm thinking somewhere in the range of 2.5k or so for everything?

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

It cost me $2800 for my tranny rebuild

Dblock0405

so when we get this full parts list, ill start doing a search and getting the prices. my uncle told me hes willing to put some money in, since technically its his car. i love my car and i cant see myself to go back to a civic.

so lets put it all together

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

What makes a J32 a 3.2L is the bore of the heads. What makes a J35 a 3.5L is the stroke.

If he swaps just the bottom end, he'll still be a 3.0L. BUT, that bottom end does have cylinder walls that can withstand higher temps. It's been so long I forget exactly what the cylinder walls have that makes it better.

P0401

iTrader: (1)

yeah I thought about the valves being smaller on the 3.0 also when it was mentioned to use the heads and IM from the 3.0 and you wouldn't have any clearance problems, but I think we have actually moved from my original question to a better solution

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

I was referring to blackack's response to the displacement of the seperate engines and what gives them that displacement.

P0401

iTrader: (1)

I would have also thought the 3.2 would have had to have bigger pistons along with bigger valves to make up for the additional liters. Don't think I have ever heard of valves making a engine have extra liters. I have put 440 valves in my 383 mopar motor and it still was a 383 motor that flowed better because of the bigger valves, but maybe Honda is different, it seems allot about these things doesn't make much sense to me

P0401

iTrader: (1)

there is a 3.2 engine and 6 speed transmission and ECU together that they say came came out of a 04 with 40k miles on it on eBay right now for 1800 plus 300 shipping http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/J-ser...Q5fAccessories

P0401

iTrader: (1)

this one is the same picture but is 25.00 less on shipping http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/J-ser...Q5fAccessories

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

my bad, different bore in the cylinder walls by 3mm, but still the same stroke. just looked it up. havent talked about cars in what feels like 5 years, i've been out the game that long. anyways, i'd suggest you do your hoemwork on (without the - symbol)

v-6-p-e-r-f-o-r-m-a-n-c-e-.-n-e-t-

that's where you'll find the technical info in regards to this.

Tragic Bliss

ANy updates. I'm looking at doing this. Want to know if its worth it

P0401

iTrader: (1)

if you are asking about 6 speed swap bolted to a 1st gen 3.0 the answer is no, no one has done it yet. there is at least one 3.2/6speed swap in the works though by teh CL. The only thing I have swapped was 2nd gen seats in my 1st gen CL

Tragic Bliss

i know about the j32 swaps being done. i have been on this site for awhile but havent posted lately.
i cant find a 6spd anywhere but lots of auto cls trannys around me. thinking just j32 with cls autotragic just for something new in my car.

Miiike

iTrader: (4)

I don't really think the auto in those second gen CL's is any better than the auto in the first gens

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

^^ It's worse

P0401

iTrader: (1)

yeah I didn't purchase the whole thing to swap out the engine because I did some research and there seems to be more problems with the second gen transmissions than there was with the first gen., maybe because of the added horsepower or the triptronic or something but the failure rate seems to be higher and more often. I have been buying up parts and really thinking about doing a 6 speed swap bolted to the 3.0 but right now its just plans with a few scattered parts here and there I have acquired. If the trans goes out I may move forward faster or just get rid of the CL all together at that time but right now I have so many things going on I can't tear into it to do a swap like this

Tragic Bliss

Hmm may just get a tl. Won't get rid of this car cuz I love it. MAy just make it a project car for my lil bro and I .

P0401

iTrader: (1)

as far as I know the same model Tl's have the same trans problems as the CL unless you get a 6 speed version

asianspec

iTrader: (1)

you can probably get a 3g TL for reasonable price since most people think they are grandparent cars, from what i heard.