dragon084

i am looking into bidding on these Apex'i WS worldsport damper coilovers.

they are offered in these two applicationgs :

Accord 98-02

Accord 90-97

I drive a 99 3.0

dragon084

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ayphotohosting

Hobo

search said 5th gen accord whichever that one is

pebe

wusup greg. yo, i'm about to go your route for a little while man. the pizza place by me is looking for someone for evenings and weekends, im really thinkin about doing it. i know a few kids from there and they say the tips are really good, especially in my area. anyway, we still gotta get this queens mini meet thing so we can check out the rides.

CLpower

90-97

rad_cl_racer

how low can you drop your ride with coilovers ?? would it still be a more comfortable ride than a drop with nuspeed springs? I wonder if you would need to get a camber kit for them?

dragon084

you would only need a camber kit if your riding around daily @ like 1.75 or + drop.

if you get the coilovers and drop it 2 like 1 inch and ride it like that daily, then it should

not need the camber kit. Correct me if im wrong.

dragon084

Thanks mang-

do u guys think im better off getting tokico version of the coilovers?

they say it works differently and is more stable, it is also 2 hundred more bucks.

any one have any experience, and teins are outta my price range BTW.

CLpower

tokico versions?


I had these for a little while and loved them, had to give them back because they weren't mine though

azian21485

depends what you want out of your car..for full coilovers the price isn't bad on the apexi and it's a good company..i was gonna grab a set until i found out the spring rates 9k front and 4k back...too much understeer unless you plan on setting up ur car like they do in the east with staggered tires and weird camber+caster settings..but if you're not planning on autocrossing and on a budget these should be fine..however if you're really into the drag racing scene the rates won't help you get traction either

if you're willing to spend the money for the tokiko's, i'd save up a little more and go with a koni + ground control setup

don't worry bout the teins..not worth the money imo unless you're stepping up past the ss

omnipower (engineer from skunk2) recently came out with a new coilover setup for 5th gen accords with some good rates..lotta civics and tegs are using it already..if you want more info i can provide

range of drop depends on coilover manufacterer..usually ranges from 0-4 inches or somewhere inbetween..

comfortability depends on what shocks you're using

camber kit depends on how much you drop your car

no matter how much you drop your car (or even adjusting height with coilovers) you should always get an allignment..that'll tell you if you need a camber kit or not...some people drop 2 inches and their camber changes like -.5 on both sides while some people drop 1.5 and the camber gets pushed out -2 degrees..it all depends on the condition of the car the coilovers are being put on

CLpower

FWD Front engine car, you are always going to have a drasticly higher spring rate up front no matter what you are trying to accomplish

dragon084

you had the apexi's ????

this thread is getting interesting...

should i get these before or after the winter?

keep in mind i have 85% tread on my all-season continental tires.

azian21485

most aftermarket spring companies will produce higher front rates to make sure the car understeers instead of oversteers...reason behind this is most of these springs will be used on the street..if they were to use higher rates in back, they don't want little kids complaining to the company they crashed into a tree because they spun out trying to take a corner

japanese tuners use higher rates up front because it seems they wanna have really good turn in..so they run high rates up front and then run staggered tire sizes (wider front narrow back) and crazy camber to try making the rear come around...also having high spring rates on a touge won't be really smart cus the road isn't smooth

from the american point of view you don't want a drastically higher spring rate for fwd..being fwd it understeers alot as it is...if your autocrossing or road racing you'd want a high front spring rate and a even higher rear spring rate to help try make the rear end come around easier...drag racing you want soft front and stiff rear to keep the weight on the front wheels

CLpower

yea, I had a friend that was doing an H22A swap and gutting out his accord that let me borrow them for a few months, I liked them alot

CLpower

Well, you are partially correct, but still NO MATTER WHAT you will have a SIGNIFICANTLY higher spring rate up front on a FWD front engined car because of the significant weight up there. Pretty much w/ any car unless it has 50/50 weight distribution one side will be a pretty good amount higher depending on where the motor is.

I think the CL is probably about 70/30

These are from a japanese tuner, along w/ teins that all have significantly higher up front. The car would handle like ass any other way. I've yet to see a properly tuned car for road courses w/ FWD that runs a smaller width in the rear.

azian21485

wait...let me understand what you're saying..when you mean no matter what i'll have a higher spring rate up front do you mean it's because the engine is compressing the springs because of it's front biased weight distribution?

or do you mean no matter what company i buy my springs from i'll have higher spring rates in front?

azian21485

on road races there are not as many with staggered sizes because at higher speeds you don't want the rear to kick out..you wanted it under control..but there ARE a few who run staggered on the road courses..but it's more evident in touge where corners are tighter and generally lower speeds

take the jun prelude for example..this was a setup for a touge match

rates:
18kg front
14kg rear

tires:
235/45/17 front
215/45/17 rear

then check out the 2liter honda vtec challenge..it was on a road course

civic type r
rates:
23 kg f
18 kg r

tires:
225/40/16
205/50/15

there are a few autox guys in the states here running staggered tires and rim sizes as well..all of this is to promote oversteer

yes there are those who run same sizes for all 4 tires but what it comes down to is preference


problem is..i still don't understand what you mean by the spring rates

dragon084

how was the install?

CLpower

that is what I mean

CLpower

what do KG's transfer to lbs? I don't think they are much off of what Apexi' is doing. Good info on the staggered setups, I love being proved wrong, I never knew it was done on track setup cars (i knew it was common on drag cars but that's not what we were talking about, I assumed we were only talking about track cars).


What I meant by spring rates is what you just showed me, no matter what you do the optimal is going to be to have significantly higher spring rates for the front as opposed to the rear.

azian21485

it's about 55.9 lbs / kg so 10 kg = 559 lbs approximately

apexi runs a front bias as well since it's a japanese company and that's how they tune their cars

however, other companies such as hnr, eibach, and ground control do the same thing as well and these are american and european based companies...the reason behind this is the same reasoning i stated earlier "most aftermarket spring companies will produce higher front rates to make sure the car understeers instead of oversteers...reason behind this is most of these springs will be used on the street..if they were to use higher rates in back, they don't want little kids complaining to the company they crashed into a tree because they spun out trying to take a corner"

making the car understeer is a safety standard because novice drivers will naturally reach for the brake when they lose control..that's why econo cars from the factory are understeer based as well...when the car understeer's, you can press on the brakes and recover from crashing...but if the car's rear starts coming loose, novice drivers slam on the brakes and it won't look pretty =(

i mentioned earlier that here in the states people tend to tune their cars different than that in japan..but the end result is the same: more oversteer

japan does this with high front rates for better turn in and to counter understeer they use staggered tires, WIDE front tires (225 on a civic = lotsa fender rolling) and camber, toe, and castor settings and other magic we have yet to know about lol

here, instead of fine tuning through allignment (although allignment is still important) we tune more through spring rates..we use high rear spring rates..we want the rear to be able to rotate around and the stiffer it is, the easier it'll come out using lift throttle oversteer or other racing magic that i have yet to learn lol

this is the sole reason you will hardly see any road racers using tein ss or apexi or other coilover kits...so what do they use? well there's the expensive kits with double adjustable shocks and all that mombojumbo then the ever-so-popular koni yellows with ground control coilovers

ground control gets their springs through eibach...so through ground control and any vendor, you're able to buy ground controls with custom rates (softer front, stiffer rear or watever floats your boat)...then, if u don't like your rates you can easily switch between spring rates using any spring (hypercoil, eibach, etc) with the right dimensions (has to fit the ground control sleeve or any coilover sleeve you're using) so people are constantly switching in and out different rates to see what they like..some examples of what some road racers and autox are running:

500 lbs f
700 lbs r

450 lbs f
700 lbs r

400 lbs f
450 lbs r *common autox setup i'm starting to see

350 lbs f
450 lbs r

yes you can have high rear rates..next year i'm running 425f (hypercoils) 550r (skunk2) using skunk 2 sleeves and koni yellows...do you see how easy it is to mix and match different parts together =) that's why when i say tein ss is not worth it, it's because the spring rates are like 320f and 250r or something..it's soft rates (that's why everyone says it's a good ride) and high front spring biased

all in all tuning suspension can take up alot of time..some people go with staggered tires and high rear spring rates...others go with large rear swaybar no front sway bar..some keep the front swaybar on...some upgrade the front..it's all a matter of personal preferece really...sorry for the long post..i hope i'm comprehendable at this hour =)