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Hello All,
I have a 2010 MDX Advanced with 275,000 miles on it and developed a ticking noise like a valve adjustment was needed. After adjusting the valves I still had the ticking noise so I took it to the dealer for a more informed look and was told #2 had a problem. No codes, no cylinder missing, nothing apparently going on to be concerned. I had noticed it getting worse over a couple week period and it had become a noisy tick. I pulled the rear valve cover and found #2 cam lobe was worn badly as well as the rocker roller. This was the drivers side rocker and lobe.
I have a couple of questions on this;
1 Does the cam slide out the gear side or will it come out towards the driver side, bottom line do I have to pull the head to get it out?
2 I have Torque on my phone and the ELM 327 Bluetooth dongle that work great, is there an app for Android that lets you check cylinder balance on the fly?
3 Are there any other checks I should make at this point? It's never been overheated, rarely get into the rpm that VTEC comes on, it's been a great ride and fits my needs perfectly.
4 I swapped the PCV Valve out and noticed it didn't have the check valve in it I'm use to seeing. The old one broke during removal and a small pin and spring feel out but the new OE didn't seem to have it? The parts guy didn't have a clue what I was asking about.
I recently read about the EGR disable and will do that, 5K miles ago I installed a Gates Kevlar TB and swapped plugs that didn't need changing but it was time. Other than a couple batteries and a front passenger half shaft this has been the best vehicle I've ever owned. Could get better MPG but excellent in all other aspects.
Any input or advice is much appreciated and if anyone has the cam and rocker arms for the Exhaust side shoot me a PM as far as what you need for them. #2 Exhaust Lobe drivers side
Carpayment4life
I'm finding out that Honda had a problem with the hardening on camshafts, maybe just hearsay. I haven't seen a TSB or anything on it. The manuals are $250.00+, kind of steep when I can buy the cam and rockers for that new OE. I'll probably be going to a higher viscosity oil to help on this. Amsoil has a 0-40W or 0-50W which should help. Never cared for all of the thin stuff used for MPG gains no matter how small of a gain it is.
Thanks for the reply, I just got back in town and getting back on this.
BTW, Take a SB and a BB Chevy with moderate valve spring pressure and cam profile, leave the plugs, pistons and rods out. It will take more torque on a needle type torque wrench to spin the SB than the BB. The BB was designed much later as a Semi Hemi and better valve train geometry while the SB had more parasitic drag bc the poor valve train design. I guess they've corrected that with the newer LS engines but hadn't kept up.
^ This issue is affecting the +2010 models as they suffer from oil consumption issues? when the oil goes down the cam does not get sufficient lubrication and gets damaged. You can research more about this and find out that most of the people with scored cams are usually driving +2010 models.
Interesting, I don't have any oil consumption issue and the cam lobe runs in an oil bath. This is why I thought the thicker oil would be beneficial. My wear is on the Ramp of the lobe where added film strength would help. ATF is about a 5-10W and the engine oils we use these days aren't much better. I won't run less than a 10-30W. If a wearing part is deprived of lubrication it will almost always turn a blue overheated color, I wonder if these low oil level failures did as well? My failed roller and cam lobe had oil, no discoloration at all.
I know Acura moved away from the Nikasil cylinder in 2009-2010 bc fuel and pitting cyl. walls. Never cared for the Nikasil fade.
Thanks for the input Skirmich
Perhaps the camshafts are also different? I know there are some solid cams vs hollow but who knows? the only ones Ive seen is the +2010 models, I know some Odysseys have issues with them too.
It's funny that a thread that is "Related" shows up under his thread showing a "2008 RDX Camshaft Lobe Wear" that shows no signs of lack of lubrication, only metal release from the lobe. The Cams spin half the speed of the Crank, I'll bet you if have a low oil condition you'll spin rods and main bearings before you wipe cam lobes. Just doesn't make sense. No discoloration from lack of lube? An oil bath cam lobe isn't relying on oil pressure to live? I'm thinking out loud but I've seen many black and blue parts and failures of the type. On more transmissions than engines but the physics play out the same. Could always be wrong.
The transmissions I'm referring to are around $26,000.00 rebuilt and were transferring 950 HP(Cummins 23L), a little under 3000 lb. ft. of torque. Some would run 24/7 WOT 100% load for 2-3 days straight. They would last about 6 months and self destruct. That's not turn key, that's sitting on the floor. The bigger brother was around $45,000.00 rebuilt, $84k rebuilt/outright. I saw a lot of failures for different reasons. They would get hot enough they'd take a pressure washer to location and spray them down to cool them off. They really needed 1200HP packages and they new it. Coil Tubing operation, West Texas, crazy over there right now. One of many. bla, bla, sorry getting off topic. DP8000 Allison transmission, 3500 Model Cat engine
1200 rpm max
Well yes but you are comparing apples to oranges there... The J37 can REV up to 6800RPM and lack of lubrication is a known defect on the +2010 J37s so...
I thought they had an oil consumption issue which led to a low oil level and possible problems? That's not a lubrication issue, more lack of oil. I do see the oil bath for the cam lobes are directly on top of the combustion chamber and could generate a hot spot. Mineral oils lose film strength around 250-300*F, synthetics threshold is around 450*F which I've been running and never a low oil level. Not to argue but I see no sign of lack of lube in my scenario.
"The J37 can REV up to 6800RPM and lack of lubrication is a known defect on the +2010 J37s so..." What was done to fix this?
I've done more research on this cam lobe issue and it looks like they're borderline on the depth of the hardness built into the camshaft itself. It happens to all models from Odyssey to Ridgeline and MDX's 08 and earlier. Some as early as 80,000 miles. I'll be going to a much thicker synthetic oil to offset the issue in my favor and hope for the best. I use a D700 Nikon camera that's nearly $3,000.00(body only) new with meticulous QC procedures but anything mass produced will have problems and they did too. My rule is if it moves it breaks and sometimes even if it doesn't move it breaks(electronics).
Where I am surprised is of all the hits on this thread, no one can answer any of these simple questions. I guess it's guarded information or no one knows.
1 Does the cam slide out the gear side or will it come out towards the driver side, bottom line do I have to pull the head to get it out?
2 I have Torque on my phone and the ELM 327 Bluetooth dongle that work great, is there an app for Android that lets you check cylinder balance on the fly?
3 Are there any other checks I should make at this point? It's never been overheated, rarely get into the rpm that VTEC comes on, it's been a great ride and fits my needs perfectly.
4 I swapped the PCV Valve out and noticed it didn't have the check valve in it I'm use to seeing. The old one broke during removal and a small pin and spring feel out but the new OE didn't seem to have it? The parts guy didn't have a clue what I was asking about.
1.- The cam does slide out of the head but AFAIK there is not enough room for the rear bank cam to pull out this means removal of the head only.
2.- Dunno
3.- You should be hitting VTEC at least once in a week, This keeps carbon build up in check on J-Series.. If you can hit VTEC often it would be better, Honda engines are MEANT to be rev-up making them work under low RPMs can only cause EGR issues.
4.- OEM PCV valve has a check ball so it must have come out.
I got the cam out, it has the thrust journal on the transmission end and slides out fine without pulling the head. I did find I had a working failure on another cam lobe which made me curious about the front cam so I pulled the Valve Cover and as luck would have it I found a lobe in the early stages of metal release working. I was able to get the front cam out as well by pulling the battery mount. This well designed and doesn't really owe me anything after 276,000 so we'll see how this turns out. I have the other cam on the way. The Rocker Arm looked fine and I'll reuse.
A little food for thought, I noticed a product white sheet that mentioned Acura/Honda had added Aramid to it's Timing Belts in the 2010 model J series among many other updates in all directions.
Link to information; https://hondanews.com/channels/acura...mdx-powertrain
"The 3.7-liter engine has lightweight aluminum cylinder heads that are pressure cast for high accuracy and low porosity. Each cylinder head uses a single camshaft, turned by an Aramid-fiber reinforced toothed belt drive for long service life."
If you read through this it's amazing they didn't do a Generation change from 2009 to 2010 MY. This Aramid upgrade would explain why someone in a grocery getter has 180K+ All the cam journals in the head check very good. I ran a magnet around and cleaned all the pockets. Surprised how much metal I found in the pitted cam lobe areas. I made this out of an extra belt to remove the bolt. The head of the bolt is against the end of the belt so no metal to metal on the cam gear. On the front cam gear I ran the end of the belt through the shackle to keep it firm to the gear. It worked alright in a pinch. Maybe someone has a better tool I couldn't find online? on the clock and the original TB. Oddly enough Acura didn't extend the service change interval. That's pretty much it for now, we'll see what happens when I get it back together and I'll continue with a progress report.
I swapped out both cams,seals and got it back together. It runs as smooth as it did before the ticking noise. I used brake cleaner and flushed out the heads which cleaned up very well. Be careful with this brake cleaner bc it will break rubber down. I was careful to try and keep it away from the intake valve seals to prevent distortion. I've ordered Amsoil's 5W-50 Signature 25,000 mile oil and the extended change filters for both my MDX and my wifes 12 TL.
The issue with the front bank not being evacuated from blowby and shows signs of oil breaking down leaving the brown varnish while the rear looks much better. I thought plumbing an extra PCV valve mounted in the valve cover might stop this concern. T it into the big vacuum hose/tube running from the rear valve cover to the intake hose would fix it. If anyone has any input on this issue please comment. Front bank, 276,000 miles, sludge and varnish running Syn 10W-30 Mobil 1 Rear bank was much cleaner. Everything cleaned up well. I had some shim stock laying around and made some pieces to hold the High lift follower up while installing the Rocker assembly. Torqued the bolts to 19 lb. ft. Adjusted the valves and completed assembly.
I would suggest installing the cams and getting all the timing marks aligned before installing the Rocker Arm assemblies, this will assure you can't bend valves. Many of you guys work on these engines all the time and have more tricks, please comment and straighten me out on them. I'd appreciate it. I'm 60 yo and never stop learning. This engine is a great design and I'll see if I can get another 275,000 out of it.
BTW, I have a Borescope you plug in your phone and here are a few pictures of Intake Valves in various cylinders which look pretty clean for the mileage.I use the Techron fuel additive once a month for 4 months but I don't know what they looked like before so I don't have pics to compare. Looks clean with a little sludge stuck to casting flash on the right side. Intake Valve, they all looked like this.
One thing I'd like to add is removing the Crank bolt was easy with this impact from Harbor Freight. I have three electric and some air impacts, they couldn't do it. 4 seconds with this and it's off. Worked great for a weekend warrior, around 100.00 dollars.
The rear bank stain has been cleared out before.
The issue is heat soak from the rear bank not getting enough air flow, You will find this stain in every single J-Series engine out there.
My TL-S has it and my MDX has it too.
But is good to know the rear cam can also be slide out of the head with out removing it.
My more varnished bank was the front, the rear was the cleanest with the failed cam lobe. Are there TSB's or links to explain this issue? Front Bank Rear Bank
My TL-S stain is in the back.. My MDX also had the stain in the front, They both have different PCV setups..
TL-S has an intake tube in the front valve cover.
MDX has an intake tube in the rear valve cover.
TL-S front bank:
TL-S rear bank:
MDX front bank (Pics taken from my Valve Adjustment DIY):
MDX rear bank:
The difference in valve train setup is that the 07-09 J37A1 has Single VTEC.. The 10-13 J37A1 has Dual VTEC, Funny enough the 07-09 Engine is more powerful and more reliable.
Thanks so much, all very interesting. Is there somewhere that anyone has laid out the generational changes as a big picture or family tree for simplification. I gather the RL's have full VTEC heads and the heads are a direct swap to my 10 MDX. On the Acura Warehouse site they show mine as a KA 6AT? What is this in reference to? 6AT 6 speed Automatic Transmission simple enough, the J37KA?
" The 10-13 J37A1 has Dual VTEC, Funny enough the 07-09 Engine is more powerful and more reliable." As my pic shows I only have the intake side so I don't know which engine you refer to with Dual VTEC in the 10-13 J37A1 models. I haven't had the valve covers off of my wifes 12 TL but it has enough power to have torque steer at shifts. Should've gone with SHAWD but there wasn't another Advanced TL in DFW at the time I was looking. It has plenty of power, I don't care for Torque Steer, she loves the car though.
I have Mobil 1 in since the camshafts swap, I'll run it for a month, make sure I don't have any leaks and change to the Signature Amsoil 5W 50 I got in yesterday.
Sorry my mistake the MDX does not have Dual VTEC is the ZDX and TL... They share the same updated camshaft retainer.
The MDX will also torque steer like crazy if you disable SH-AWD,
"Sorry my mistake the MDX does not have Dual VTEC is the ZDX and TL..." No problems, it's a small matter. I'll look at the PCV valve install, I'd like to figure out getting better economy, has anyone tried the MSD coils. That looks pretty cool and I've seen after market coils give great results over OE in the past. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...mdx/?rrec=true
Did some running around yesterday, everything seems to be running fine again. I had been working in West Texas and drove every week. I would spend about 2 hours at 2600-2700 rpm(85-90+ mph) steady. The rest of the time it would be 75-85. I'm so glad that excursion is over with. ACC tops out at 90, won't set above that. ACC is amazing on this thing, very intuitive.
05-29-2019, 09:47 PM
