is this a dealer scam?
04-09-2017, 02:31 PM
#1
Vancouver Island BC
Thread Starter
is this a dealer scam?
After owning my seven year old MDX with 61000 km ( 37000 miles) do I need to change the timing belt or is it a dealer scam to get more money?
November my MDX will be 7 years old. The local Acura dealership service desk person advised that because it will be 7 years old I would need to change the timing belt and possibly the water pump and serpentine belt, rough estimate between $1000 and $1300. I suggested that I might consider trading it in before November and he said that the dealership would subtract the cost to replace the belt from my trade in value. Does this sound correct?
November my MDX will be 7 years old. The local Acura dealership service desk person advised that because it will be 7 years old I would need to change the timing belt and possibly the water pump and serpentine belt, rough estimate between $1000 and $1300. I suggested that I might consider trading it in before November and he said that the dealership would subtract the cost to replace the belt from my trade in value. Does this sound correct?
04-09-2017, 03:50 PM
#2
A dealer may, or may not, deduct the cost of a new timing belt into your trade-in value. But, if I was to guess, you surely won't see a 1:1 payback, if you do get the timing belt replaced.
As far a replacing the timing belt @ 7 years, none of us can predict how long your current belt will last. I went 13 years/100,000 miles on my timing belt, for my Toyota Tundra. If I was to guess, I bet your timing belt will go far longer than 7 years. But, in the end, it's just a guess. If I had some kind of magical device, that could predict the future, I could tell you how long your belt will last - but, I don't.
Is a scam? No, just recommend maintenance. JMO.
As far a replacing the timing belt @ 7 years, none of us can predict how long your current belt will last. I went 13 years/100,000 miles on my timing belt, for my Toyota Tundra. If I was to guess, I bet your timing belt will go far longer than 7 years. But, in the end, it's just a guess. If I had some kind of magical device, that could predict the future, I could tell you how long your belt will last - but, I don't.
Is a scam? No, just recommend maintenance. JMO.
04-09-2017, 04:08 PM
#3
Unregistered Member
7 years or 105k miles(not sure if theres a different interval for the timing belt for Canadian vehicles for km) is the recommended interval for replacing the timing belt.
04-09-2017, 05:15 PM
#4
Moderator
It is not a scams is the dealership doing smart business if they trade your car in without deducting the timing belt they would have to absorb it which in the end is more expensive that if the owner does it.
You don't have to change the timing belt service on the dealership though you are not obligated to do it on the dealership so that they give you full trade in value.
You don't have to change the timing belt service on the dealership though you are not obligated to do it on the dealership so that they give you full trade in value.
04-09-2017, 10:28 PM
#5
Funny, the dealership I bought my 2005 mdx from did not know the timing belt status but after buying the vehicle I found a receipt for it so they probably don't care about it when you do a trade in. Although it might be different for a 2005 vehicle vs a 2010 and if they will resell it as certified or just used inventory.
Not sure how this works.
Not sure how this works.
Last edited by Illustro; 04-09-2017 at 10:30 PM.
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05-07-2017, 09:02 AM
#8
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There is a way to figure this out - and simply, has it ever happened before?
In previous era's to hard to really know a mundane detail like that. Internet searchability has changed all that.
Its like asking why shouldn't I choose sequential numbers for a lottery ticket? It has exactly the same chance of winning as a non-sequential numbers. Well, it simply has never happened before so therefore you should have zero expectation that choosing sequential numbers will lead to a winning ticket for you.
You can scour the internet and find all kinds of problems resulting from timing belt failure on all vehicles using a belt, including Honda/Acura. If you can't find a modern example of a Honda/Acura timing belt failure occuring due to age rather than mileage, then you shouldn't be concerned. I've been searching and participating in MDX/Pilot forums for 17 years since they came out in 2000, as well as YouTube clips mentioning this problem. An a few cases (2 or 3) an otherwise healthy belt was torn apart by a seized idler pulley. These were high mileage MDX and it wasn't because the idler failed due to defect or being worn out. The idler was installed during a timing belt replacement, but was not seated corrected. They were mounted off-center by 3mm or more, and the mounting bolt was literally smashing down on the bearing rather than the support collar. The service manual actually says to preliminarily install a new idler very loose to allow enough play to get the tight-fitting belt onto all the pulleys. The, reset the idler into the proper position so that the mounting bolt nestles inside the center collar of the idler. Guess what the mechanic did? Didn't center it, and just cranked down on the mounting bolt. It will work fine for 2 to 4 years then a horrible high pitch screeching noise, then a busted belt, or a shredded and barely there belt.
Theoretically, the rubber and fiber timing belt will be susceptible to aging and become brittle and crack apart. Being protected from the elements behind a metal or plastic cover, lightly but sufficiently ventilated, and not exposed to any high temp engine components, its in a better environment than another other rubberized component in the engine compartment. Which is why a low mileage timing belt will outlast the life of the car. Find me an instance of a pre-130K mi timing belt which failure prematurely due to normal use (rather than a jammed up idler pulley) and I might change my mind, but I'd want to understand the precise circumstances of that event.
In the interest of protecting their brand reputation, and the common occurrence that subsequent owners have no idea if the belt had been changed at proper intervals, its good business practice to pick an arbitrary number and say, if you don't know the mileage of the current belt, and the car is more than 7 years old, just get it done. I'd say the same. Visual inspections are useless because belts which have reached their recommended usage limits will almost always look brand new. My neighbor's timing belt from a civic did come out with less than half of the material intact. It had 187k miles on it.
The dealer service people lied. Cars older than 4 model years are not purchased as candidates as CPO resales. During a trade in, the timing belt is not inspected, nor are records checked for a timing belt change, and you wouldn't be asked if you changed the timing belt because your answer is irrelevant to the value of the car, at least from a dealer perspective. It will be marked As-Is, No Warranty and they will encourage the buyer to purchase an aftermarket warranty. AFTER the resale to a new buyer, the sales rep will introduce the buyer to the service manager for recommended services, and if there doesn't happen to be a record at their dealership of such service, they will try to sell the buyer a timing belt replacement if the car is past 105k mi or more than 6 years old. Its not necessary, nor is it unethical - they are going by manufacturer recommended service intervals. They won't be doing this as part of in-take service to used cars they purchase, and its a lie that they will deduct the value of a belt replacement from the payout value. If the tires are low on tread, yes. Worn out wiper blades, I've heard of it. Dings outside, rips and gashes inside, yes. But not scheduled maintenance.
In previous era's to hard to really know a mundane detail like that. Internet searchability has changed all that.
Its like asking why shouldn't I choose sequential numbers for a lottery ticket? It has exactly the same chance of winning as a non-sequential numbers. Well, it simply has never happened before so therefore you should have zero expectation that choosing sequential numbers will lead to a winning ticket for you.
You can scour the internet and find all kinds of problems resulting from timing belt failure on all vehicles using a belt, including Honda/Acura. If you can't find a modern example of a Honda/Acura timing belt failure occuring due to age rather than mileage, then you shouldn't be concerned. I've been searching and participating in MDX/Pilot forums for 17 years since they came out in 2000, as well as YouTube clips mentioning this problem. An a few cases (2 or 3) an otherwise healthy belt was torn apart by a seized idler pulley. These were high mileage MDX and it wasn't because the idler failed due to defect or being worn out. The idler was installed during a timing belt replacement, but was not seated corrected. They were mounted off-center by 3mm or more, and the mounting bolt was literally smashing down on the bearing rather than the support collar. The service manual actually says to preliminarily install a new idler very loose to allow enough play to get the tight-fitting belt onto all the pulleys. The, reset the idler into the proper position so that the mounting bolt nestles inside the center collar of the idler. Guess what the mechanic did? Didn't center it, and just cranked down on the mounting bolt. It will work fine for 2 to 4 years then a horrible high pitch screeching noise, then a busted belt, or a shredded and barely there belt.
Theoretically, the rubber and fiber timing belt will be susceptible to aging and become brittle and crack apart. Being protected from the elements behind a metal or plastic cover, lightly but sufficiently ventilated, and not exposed to any high temp engine components, its in a better environment than another other rubberized component in the engine compartment. Which is why a low mileage timing belt will outlast the life of the car. Find me an instance of a pre-130K mi timing belt which failure prematurely due to normal use (rather than a jammed up idler pulley) and I might change my mind, but I'd want to understand the precise circumstances of that event.
In the interest of protecting their brand reputation, and the common occurrence that subsequent owners have no idea if the belt had been changed at proper intervals, its good business practice to pick an arbitrary number and say, if you don't know the mileage of the current belt, and the car is more than 7 years old, just get it done. I'd say the same. Visual inspections are useless because belts which have reached their recommended usage limits will almost always look brand new. My neighbor's timing belt from a civic did come out with less than half of the material intact. It had 187k miles on it.
The dealer service people lied. Cars older than 4 model years are not purchased as candidates as CPO resales. During a trade in, the timing belt is not inspected, nor are records checked for a timing belt change, and you wouldn't be asked if you changed the timing belt because your answer is irrelevant to the value of the car, at least from a dealer perspective. It will be marked As-Is, No Warranty and they will encourage the buyer to purchase an aftermarket warranty. AFTER the resale to a new buyer, the sales rep will introduce the buyer to the service manager for recommended services, and if there doesn't happen to be a record at their dealership of such service, they will try to sell the buyer a timing belt replacement if the car is past 105k mi or more than 6 years old. Its not necessary, nor is it unethical - they are going by manufacturer recommended service intervals. They won't be doing this as part of in-take service to used cars they purchase, and its a lie that they will deduct the value of a belt replacement from the payout value. If the tires are low on tread, yes. Worn out wiper blades, I've heard of it. Dings outside, rips and gashes inside, yes. But not scheduled maintenance.
