N1h1l1ty

Hey folks,

Just wanted to ask for a second opinion since there are lots of knowledgeable folks when it comes to the 3G suspension.

I'm trying to figure out on the best way to get my rear back in spec toe-wise, as my OEM arms/adjustment bolts are seized to infinity and beyond. I'm lowered on Tein Street Advance, the rear is maxed out and I have -3 degrees of natural camber. The -3 doesn't bother me, but the wheels are pretty heavily toed in and this needs to get fixed ASAP before I can take the car on longer drives.

I have two choices:

1, Go with new OEM arms and new OEM bolts/hardware. No real disadvantage but I wont get camber adjustment. After pricing it out, it will be a cool $270 canadian after taxes, shipping etc etc. I will also have money left over to potentially go for SPC Upper Arms.

2, Go with the Hardrace arms, which will have both camber and toe adjustment, and will be overall stiffer/better than stock, albeit a fair bit more expensive. At 550$ without shipping or taxes, and without hardware which will be another 60$ from Heeltoe. Prospect of better handling is definitely a bonus, but at 600+ dollars, Ouchies on the cost.

My main worry right now is that this low, with -3 degrees of camber, the stock arm isn't going to cut it in terms of the adjustment range for toe. What do you think? I don't REALLY want to go with the SPC upper arms because at that point its going to be almost as expensive as the hard race arms, without the added benefit thereof.

My main question then has to be how much adjustment range is available with the stock toe arms? Will I be able to get the rear back in spec toe wise with a 2.5 inch drop?

Thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks in advance, from a slightly bewildered Aziner

Joey tl

More info on hard race arms........ went on their website no listing for 3gen tl......I'm in the same boat and I'm not slammed in the back

N1h1l1ty

You should peruse the following thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/tires-w...review-864705/

The arms are actually technically for the 03-07 Accord/04-08 TSX but they will work on thr TL and insofar as I can tell are the best option if you want to further tighten up your rear.

The Ingalls arms are at this point absolutely out of the question considering the current amount of disgruntled Ingalls users that all say they have issues with the squirrely feel of the bushings.

Joey tl

Yes ..... I feel the same regarding Ingalls .... I'm still debating on new stock lower arms with spc upper arm.... my rear end feels sloppy and it's passing me off .... visually everthting looks fine and I have done multiple alignment sessions and wasn't happy with the results...... I'm running koni sp3 with tein stech springs......... 18×9.5 +36....... 255/35/18 ......... definitely gonna do some research on hard race arms

N1h1l1ty

Do you have the Progress rsb? Frankly if you're on OEM arms and your rear feels sloppy, I doubt the arms are the issue. The OEM ones are pretty bulletproof since they use spherical bearings on one side and fairly stiff bushings on the other.

Joey tl

Stock sway bar...... Yaa your right maybe I need a shop like can-alignment to do it right ... heard good things about them ......Thanks for your info...... my toe is bad chewing my rubber

N1h1l1ty

Joey, since you're local to me, check out ABM Auto Center & Sales

They do a great job and stand by their work for alignment.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

with a stock arms, the rear toe adjustment is enough even with 2.5" drop, for sure. I'm sure people have gone even lower and still retained the oem adjustment.

Joey tl

Thanks I'm gonna check them out

N1h1l1ty

Exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks paper. Going to mull things over and see if I want to pull the trigger on the Hardrace arms or just go OEM and SPC upper. I'm just really nervous that the arm/toe bolt will seize and I'll be back in the same boat next year. Any ideas on how to prevent this? Anti-seize and prayer? I mean the shop I went to that specializes in Honda and Acura performance event told me that the grand majority of TLs and Accords they work on ALL have seized toe arms, which they rarely if ever manage to un-seize.

Joey tl

Is this the right part for our tl.....http://www.buyhardrace.com/product/hardrace-rear-camber-kit-04-08-tsx-03-07-accord_22.html

N1h1l1ty

That's the upper arms - you can just go with the SPC ones if you want upper arms. The lateral arms from hard race are HR-6697 and HR-6675. The 6675 have full spherical bearings all around, and are probably best avoided for street use. What cfv22 (the user who got the HR arms) did was buy both kits, and mix and match to get a combination that is close to OEM.

The OEM arms have rubber bushings on one side and spherical bearings on the other I believe. He mixed and matched the kit to get a similar setup. He suggested that if one were to use only spherical bearings, the rear would be too stiff, at least for a street car.

Oh Sickest TL

iTrader: (3)

go with OEM and spc, and get your car undercoated in the fall and you should be good....

or do what I do , just don't drive it in the winter lol and save up to get something else for the harsh canadian months... i don't drive it in the winter and still get it undercoated just for peace of mind

regardless you should just get it undercoated and all should be ok in terms of rust and seizing.

Canadian winters are certainly no good for cars eh? I'm currently dealing with some rusty rear wheel wells from the previous owner, I've found myself literally replacing EVERYTHING underneath the car lol, fuck it

N1h1l1ty

Not driving it in the winter is not an option for me sadly. She's my DD. She doesn't see more than 46 kms daily though (5 times a week), which all things considered is not a lot.

The reason I really want the hardrace arms is the further improvement in the rear handling / firming up the rear. I think that combined with the compliance bearings for the front LCAs that I plan on picking up this summer, this will pretty much put me in perfect handling territory, or at least as close to it as I can get.

hisost

iTrader: (2)

That USED to be an issue. I believe one of the Excelerate reps confirmed that Ingalls has since fixed the problem. I definitely remember reading it on these forums somewhere.

EDIT: found it Link: https://acurazine.com/forums/tires-w...estion-923093/

N1h1l1ty

With all due respect, I wouldn't take the word of a vendor as gospel. As respected as XLR8 is, their handling of the Ingalls issues on the board along with Heeltoe has been less than stellar.

One way or another, the Ingalls kit is sub-par compared to OEM, and certainly not a good choice when the SPC upper arm will give you all the camber adjustment you really need if you're going for drivable height / performance. The Hardrace arms are a product that aim to go above and beyond OEM specifications, which is what I'm really looking for. If I wanted stock or crappier, I wouldn't have dumped as much money into my suspension as I already have and will continue to do so.

EDIT: I should add that there are definitely two sides to the story. I'm just not really aiming to gamble with a potentially crappy product, at least for my needs.

Joey tl

think im gonna order the lateral arms from hard race HR-6697......like N1H1l1TY said "I'm just not really aiming to gamble with a potentially crappy product". adjust my toe and chamber with a solid product is a no brainer ..I want something that's going to last ... you know where I could buy them in Canada or I have to order from their website

turtlecivic

iTrader: (2)

I'm running SPC camber with stock arms and I don't have any problems yet. I run -6 camber with 0 toe.

N1h1l1ty

Jebus. OK well thats a +1 for the OEM arms right there

I'm pretty set on the Hardrace arms as I want to put together the best suspension possible, but if they end up being not an option, OEM arms will definitely be going on with some proper anti-seize

t-rd

anything you do, DO NOT GET INGALLS kit. I lived with this for 3 years and I'm living proof that kit has issues. The bushings are too soft and the alignment will never been in spec.

N1h1l1ty

t-rd, I've been reading all of the threads and I'm definitely not touching it with a 10 foot pole.

Its either OEM or better than OEM pour moi, and it looks like the Hardrace arms will be the key here. I mean, the track CL-S on here uses almost all Hardrace suspension parts and is very happy with them, so I think they will be perfect for what I'm looking for

nfnsquared

But they haven't yet answered my question as to how and when they came know this...I've asked them the question in 2 different threads and still no reply.

^^^^ Agreed

N1h1l1ty

If cfvs22 gets back to me this weekend, I should soon be the owner of that second set of Hardrace arms, and will try and give as much feedback on them as possible, as well as document my experience with them in my build thread.

t-rd

Excelerate will never answer you, but he'll keep pushing Ingalls claiming "wider range of adjustment." Every single thread with someone asking about a camber kit, he jumps in and does the same thing. Ingalls is for those driving a dumped car lowered close to or more than 3" without a care in the world whether the tires wear or not.

My car is lowered only 1", and I had serious tire wear problems. I spoke to Ingalls first hand on the phone 3 times, the guy asked me if I take my car to the track. Hell no. It is a daily driver, never been to the track and I drive normally with 5% of spirited driving at home. So anything more than 3", you'll have even more serious problems.

Combo

I had the same issues regarding rear toe adjusters seizing up. I was able to get them within specs after replacing with Oem rods and hardware. Camber at -2.5
04 Tl lowered on Neo MotorSport Purple.

Janagan_ua7

i ran into this same issue this weekend, went to get my alignment done to find out my rear left toe adjustment is seized up, i have no clue what path to take at the moment, my toe at the back left is way out of spec, keep us posted N1h1l1ty, very interested in taking the same path your taking

N1h1l1ty

Will do man, I'm waiting to hear from cfv on shipping cost. If I decide against the hardrace arms and go OEM, we can see if we can get some more canucks on board, ship it to Niagara and pick it up to offset shipping cost. I'm probably going to start a Canadian part group buy thread soon since I'm going to be making a couple of trips stateside anyway!

N1h1l1ty

Also it's somewhat related and I figured I'd chime in - cheapest place to buy SPC upper arms for us canucks appears to be amazon.ca. They have them for 100$ per arm +13 dollars shipping - advantage of this is we won't need to pay brokerage like we would if we ordered stateside!

nfnsquared

They're $79.17 each at Amazon.com.

N1h1l1ty

Thats US, and Amazon.com will either a) not ship to Canada or b) ship via UPS which means you'll be hit with a 30 dollar brokerage fee lol

Exchange rate seriously sucks right now too, so no real point.

Joey tl

I'm in for a group buy......hard race or spc arms

FamilyGuy

I replaced all mine with OEM, and along with progress rsb tightened the back right up. My 8 year old OEM arm bushings were soft, and 3 bolts were seized. Hard race is a great option too, but very expensive and if you don't plan to take it to the track, I think it's a bit over kill for the street. OEM arms with SPC camber if needed and progress rsb or replace new OEM bushings if keeping the stock bar.

Janagan_ua7

I'm in for a group buy as well as long as my summer job works out, i'll keep you guys posted

polobunny

Clear your items yourself. Look on teh Goog how to do it and if you have time (you do, right?) and save $$$.

cokorote

iTrader: (1)

So what did cvf did order? (Model spec of hardrace). Im asking since there is two version of them, all bushing and all spherical. How do you combine? Special order?

Is going full spherical that bad for street? Meaning that the ride will be too harsh and too stiff?

N1h1l1ty

He bought both. Then mix and matched the arm ends to make two sets, both with spherical on one end and bushing on the other, just like OEM.

He did suggest that spherical bearing all around would be too stiff / unforgiving for street.

N1h1l1ty

Yeah I know you can go to the airport and do that shit but its a serious hassle with UPS. I hate dealing with those fuckwads, I literally would rather pay 10 bucks more NOT to deal with them.

cokorote

iTrader: (1)

Wow...

@n1h1l1ty

And you are going to do the same route as cvf?

N1h1l1ty

Well as soon as he gets back to me with shipping cost, I should be the owner of the other set of Hardrace arms he has, and will hopefully give everyone some further feedback on them.

polobunny

On big purchase it can make quite the difference and you can clear your items without going directly to the airport FYI. There's guides online, doesn't take too much time.